PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

[RoyceDa59]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

I really am not sure I can agree. We saw PES 15, it was tactics overdone. I really don't trust KONAMI's execution in this department. They took it to an extreme that the game was so stale.

Sliders may be a battle, but if I wanted to to get spacing in, I would just modify the line settings - and voila, we'd be in good shape.

Don't make the required fixes too complicated. They aren't, at all. They have over-complicated this game with all the feature pushing (i.e. FIFA from years' past) and need to stick to the fundamental positioning of the game. FIFA had the problem in 15 due to the ADD (Attention Deficit Defending), but it's not excuse for PES 16 to have the same issues.

I do think PES 15's tactics was overdone as there wasn't any in between for some of the formations. Using fluid formation and messing with the positioning of players you could sort of strike some balance as Klashman had posted some formations for some teams that worked well but it still wasn't enough at least for the less talented team.

This is one of things I am fearful about with PES as I felt there really wasn't enough variation between teams. I always felt this was a FIFA problem now it looks like it could potentially be a PES problem as well.

[poster]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

We'll see what the demo brings, but for me this game has been a disappointment since they starting using the Fox Engine in 2014.

I agree with Matt in that the game desperately needs sliders. Yes, getting caught in slider hell or fiddling with them can be annoying, but it can at least help in the event that there are basic game issues.

Watching the Gamescom videos, still seems like a lack of fouls once again. It looks like they have made it difficult to even create chances for fouls and the majority of contact ends up with nothing called.

Goalkeepers still awful. I've seen so many ridiculous parries that go right to the attacking player for an easy goal. I've seen it happen in real life, but there is something about the way this game is doing it that doesn't pass the eye test. Hard to articulate, some are calling it scripting, not sure what it is. Just looks awful.

Almost like they are trying to generate more goals being scored. Buffon diving with both arms out and not catching the ball, but instead parrying it back across the goal mouth. I'm sure it is physically possible, but a world class keeper sure have more awareness then that. Yes, everyone has howlers, but it seems all keepers are the same, and if so what are their ratings doing?

They also appear to make the keepers react slower then you would expect, and in turn there is no way he would stop the shot. Again, hard to articulate, but you can tell watching these videos when a goal is coming, then you look at the replay and see another top class keeper like Neuer reacting like an elderly man would.

To their credit, there are times keepers look great and react as you would expect. I know that every keeper is not great, and I've watched many keepers over the years have bad games. Overall, its a definitely sore spot gameplay wise that they just can't improve for whatever reason.

Another issue is how the teams play and player individuality. That also seems to have fallen and is not as strong as it used to be. Both games have this issue and I agree fully with those who said they should have teams working on these things throughout the season.

The game overall seems so generic, maybe it is a culture thing. Little things appear to be bare minimum, ugly score bug with that nasty pes logo, lack of stadia. These were issues with the early pes games and now many years later, the same issues exist. Just no excuse for the effort. As a customer, the reason doesn't matter, as you are what you are and it gives a bad look.

I'll await the demo. I would ultimately play on the PC, which is another knock on the game with their hybrid nonsense, so who knows if the demo even matters. Oh, Konami.

[KG]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

I really am not sure I can agree. We saw PES 15, it was tactics overdone. I really don't trust KONAMI's execution in this department. They took it to an extreme that the game was so stale.

Sliders may be a battle, but if I wanted to to get spacing in, I would just modify the line settings - and voila, we'd be in good shape.

Don't make the required fixes too complicated. They aren't, at all. They have over-complicated this game with all the feature pushing (i.e. FIFA from years' past) and need to stick to the fundamental positioning of the game. FIFA had the problem in 15 due to the ADD (Attention Deficit Defending), but it's not excuse for PES 16 to have the same issues.

I agree that the tactics can get a little overwhelming at times but the same holds true for FIFA (which implemented more detailed, and probably rarely used individual tactics for players). You couple that with sliders and the game can get overwhelming to some. I'll never argue against taking away options since folks can always just choose to ignore them.

Konami and FIFA need to get this stuff right out of the box but for gamers like us (me & u) we're willing to go that extra mile to make the game play better for us. That's why I was able to read/tinker with the tactics on PES 2015 to eliminate that space that drives you crazy.

Fluid Formation with a deep back line, a CDM in front of them, 4 MF's in front of them and a ST for an outlet/frontline pressure made my defense super compact and in-turn I gave up 20 fewer goals in YR2 of my ML and 25 less in YR3.

Fluid Formation (When in Possession/Attack) + Short Pass + Possession Game + Maintain Position (keeps your players from leaving their space while playing shorter safer passes) + Medium #'s in attack (doesn't over-commit too many players fwd, especially my CDM who rarely got close to the opponents box) +

Fluid Formation 4-1-4-1 (When NOT in Possession/Defense) + All out Defense (keeps your players behind the ball) + Middle Containment (forces the opposition out wide and makes your wingers tuck in) + Conservative Pressure (gives your opponent time on the ball but saves stamina/doesn't open up space by chasing) + Deep defensive line (help to curtail through balls) + high compactness, 8-10 (clogs the middle of the pitch) + Many for #'s in Defense (just add bodies to defense, mainly ST/wingers).

I know that's A LOT to ask of a casual player AND it doesn't always suit every situation (chasing a result) but it will cut down on open space just as long as you are disciplined as a player to not take your player out of his defensive zone.

The way the game is set up by default for WIDE OPEN contests because of the formations (far too attacking, players pushed too high up the pitch) and the tactics (too similar for teams/ lacking situational/on-the-fly options, and just flat at wrong at times).

I do think PES 15's tactics was overdone as there wasn't any in between for some of the formations. Using fluid formation and messing with the positioning of players you could sort of strike some balance as Klashman had posted some formations for some teams that worked well but it still wasn't enough at least for the less talented team.

This is one of things I am fearful about with PES as I felt there really wasn't enough variation between teams. I always felt this was a FIFA problem now it looks like it could potentially be a PES problem as well.

Klash is one of the few people over at evo web that understands how the game works under the hood. You can tell because once the new game drops he immediately looks/posts about what tactical options have been added/removed. Much like 2K hired the Da Czar and Konami got Weedens to create their trailer they need to get someone like him on board.

I agree about the variations between teams but I think it's just down to laziness by Konami in setting up the tactics. Most of them are very similar to each other.

EDIT - I should have clarified Matt, I meant I had no issues with horizontal defensive spacing. Vertical defensive spacing as in my CBs being too wide was/is an issue that needs to be addressed by game coding/programming. You can place your CBs really close together on the formation but this has ramifications elsewhere.

[dubcity]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Tactics need to be more accessible too. Should be able to increase attacking level on the fly, at the very least.

[Money99]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Video looked really good.
I'd be interested to see if the teams and especially the players have noticeable differences.

I was dead-set on PES, but this has me wondering if FIFA might be the way to go.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

I'm definitely not a fan of the Fox Engine. There is something that just doesn't seem right. It's similar to where they were going with PES 2008, the ball doesn't feel like a separate entity, and it's "clunky" feeling. We talk about feel, and it's far from the direction they had in PES 11-13. I think they should have continued to polish the previous engine honestly. On top of that, it has built more upon controlling the ball versus the actions and common sense plays OFF the ball. The key is common sense plays. There are just too many moving parts, it's chaos. Not to say FIFA isn't, but they've at least provided the understanding of how a defensive line should work in FIFA 16 - and the execution of translating the visual of anticipation by cutting off passes as a result of proper positioning.

[poster]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Video looked really good.
I'd be interested to see if the teams and especially the players have noticeable differences.

I was dead-set on PES, but this has me wondering if FIFA might be the way to go.

I'm sure this is your plan anyways, but try the demos and see how you feel. I'm frustrated at some aspects of the game, but there are also good things in the videos. I'm sure both games will be enjoyable, based on an individual's preference.

[Rules]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Ugh, PES not programmed to call fouls which is highly concerning!

[Money99]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

I'm sure this is your plan anyways, but try the demos and see how you feel. I'm frustrated at some aspects of the game, but there are also good things in the videos. I'm sure both games will be enjoyable, based on an individual's preference.

Yeah, that's what I want to do. I love how early the demo will be released.

FIFA seems more polished in all things off the field, but I think I'll enjoy PES's gameplay more.
Plus, while I don't really even know a lot of the players, I do know about the Champions League and it's something I'd definitely want in a soccer game.
So having that over all the real teams and rosters is more important to me.

[RaptorMania]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Watching that video makes me miss pes13, they were starting to get it right I don't know why they changed the engine. I really hope the demo is good, because I was not impressed at all. They need to get rid of that playing in mud look animations, the ps2 games looked more fluid than this ****.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[kashik]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

Watching that video makes me miss pes13, they were starting to get it right I don't know why they changed the engine. I really hope the demo is good, because I was not impressed at all. They need to get rid of that playing in mud look animations, the ps2 games looked more fluid than this ****.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

This is what I don't understand. I've been playing football games since ISS. Why have games not improved their gameplay greatly since then?

Of course many things have changed, but for all the aspects that have improved -and many hugely- most are not related to making it a physically better game of football.

When I see these videos for PES 2016, I'm not left thinking how good it will be but how it seems to be yet another "2 steps forward and 1 step back" iteration. I cannot believe some problems STILL exist, and that some elements were better in previous versions!

No doubt PES 2016 will be a decent game, but I have little faith that the field will be theirs this year... or next... or the one after that. Fifa faces the same iterative problems, but PES needs an absolute stunner to even get back into contention and nothing shows this to be it.

[steveeee]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

FIFA seems more polished in all things off the field, but I think I'll enjoy PES's gameplay more.
Plus, while I don't really even know a lot of the players, I do know about the Champions League and it's something I'd definitely want in a soccer game.
So having that over all the real teams and rosters is more important to me.

this is exactly how it was last year for me. FIFA is good for online play for me for awhile until it gets old. FIFA's gameplay doesn't last as long to me as PES does. I was just playing PES 2015 all day yesterday with friends offline. That would never happen in FIFA to where I play the game this long after release because mainly the gameplay for FIFA gets burnt out so fast for me.
I am not sure I agree with those that say they want sliders in PES.. for me that ruins FIFA in ways.. same with all the manual and assisted control options.

ps. I guess me and my friends I play with are in the minority but I already thought PES last year was better than FIFA in terms of gameplay.. it seems many in this thread don't agree to that.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

this is exactly how it was last year for me. FIFA is good for online play for me for awhile until it gets old. FIFA's gameplay doesn't last as long to me as PES does. I was just playing PES 2015 all day yesterday with friends offline. That would never happen in FIFA to where I play the game this long after release because mainly the gameplay for FIFA gets burnt out so fast for me.
I am not sure I agree with those that say they want sliders in PES.. for me that ruins FIFA in ways.. same with all the manual and assisted control options.

ps. I guess me and my friends I play with are in the minority but I already thought PES last year was better than FIFA in terms of gameplay.. it seems many in this thread don't agree to that.

I thought PES had better gameplay to a certain degree especially when playing against friends. FIFA on the defualt sliders and normal speed is really unplayable for me that basically kills it for me to ever play online and against friends. It was one of the reasons I waited so long until picking up the full retail version for myself. It all comes down to preference and what you can tolerate honestly, PES does certain things well and that FIFA does not and vice versa.

[dubcity]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

This is what I don't understand. I've been playing football games since ISS. Why have games not improved their gameplay greatly since then?

Of course many things have changed, but for all the aspects that have improved -and many hugely- most are not related to making it a physically better game of football.

When I see these videos for PES 2016, I'm not left thinking how good it will be but how it seems to be yet another "2 steps forward and 1 step back" iteration. I cannot believe some problems STILL exist, and that some elements were better in previous versions!.

We know that one of the reasons for this is people seem to care more about improving graphics and licenses than realistic gameplay and replay value. Even PES is guilty of this in recent years. And it's hard to blame them when we know every review that comes out will dock them a point for not having the EPL. And for all of FIFA's gameplay issues, they are guaranteed 9+ reviews because of their graphics and presentation.

[KG]

Re: PES 2016 Gameplay Video - Juventus F.C. vs. A.C. Milan

We know that one of the reasons for this is people seem to care more about improving graphics and licenses than realistic gameplay and replay value. Even PES is guilty of this in recent years. And it's hard to blame them when we know every review that comes out will dock them a point for not having the EPL. And for all of FIFA's gameplay issues, they are guaranteed 9+ reviews because of their graphics and presentation.

Every review except for one...