Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100% - More Details From Mike Wang

[nova91]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway...

I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots.

For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots.

Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want.

Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

This is all great news, especially the part about tuning online/offline separately. But, somehow, I feel that people will still be up in arms about something.

[amedawg00]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway...

I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots.

For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots.

Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want.

Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

Thanks for lowering everyone's blood pressure and tamping down the hysteria mike[emoji3] . The emphasis on shot quality and good shot selection is what I took from your post and was music to my ears. My only concern is what I didn't hear; namely that ratings still are taking a back seat to timing and shot selection. Can you please elaborate on how ratings factor into the perfect release equation if at all?

[madmax52277]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

I could smell what the devs are cooking...simulation stew!!!

[jbthegreat]

The problem is the system feels arbitrary. This game is meant to appeal to the masses even though its heart is sim. The tweaks sound like the system that was in 2k15 pre patch and a lot of people were unsatisfied then and I predict they will be again. I think it would be easier to at least say the shooting percentages are based off of the players real shooting percentages first. This will make the missed green shots easier to swallow. If not it just feels like the game's shooting mechanic 's are unreliable. That's never good especially since its color coded and graded'. At the end of the day it's still a game and those unreliable signals will never sit well with the masses. Making green's rarer but lowering the success rate seems backwards.

[thedream2k16]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Let me clear up a few things as there's a lot of speculation going on right now. This is why I hate Twitter. But anyway...

I have not removed "user skill." There's still a great deal of weight applied to shot timing. So knowing your players' releases is still a key success factor. It's just that shot quality is much more important this year so you have to take good shots.

For those wondering how we made green releases more rare. It's done based on shot %. So if you take a low quality shot, you basically won't be able to achieve an excellent release. As your shot quality improves, the window for an excellent release grows. So again... take good shots.

Last year, green releases were meant to be 100%. If you saw one miss, that was a bug. A good bug... but a bug nonetheless. This year, the shot bonus for greens is still pretty high and it's based on the shot %. So the higher the %, the greater the excellent timing boost. This is basically how our shot system has always worked, I just tuned it. It's kind of a mix between what we had in 14 and 15. And yes, it does kind of suck to miss a green release, but over time, it feels right. Still, I might tweak the system after getting more feedback from everyone... but nobody is really complaining about it internally.

And why don't we just remove the shot meter? Too many people like it and it's still a valuable tool. Not everyone has the time (or desire) to memorize the shot timing for hundreds of players in the league. And if you like to play with lots of teams, or just want to experiment with a new team, the shot meter is very helpful. You can always turn it off if you want.

Last thing, we CAN tune offline differently from online. So I'll be monitoring feedback closely once you guys have the game to make sure everybody's happy.

sounds good but we need clarification on what you mean by shot %? is this related to individual ratings?

[thedream2k16]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

The problem is the system feels arbitrary. This game is meant to appeal to the masses even though its heart is sim. The tweaks sound like the system that was in 2k15 pre patch and a lot of people were unsatisfied then and I predict they will be again. I think it would be easier to at least say the shooting percentages are based off of the players real shooting percentages first. This will make the missed green shots easier to swallow. If not it just feels like the game's shooting mechanic 's are unreliable. That's never good especially since its color coded and graded'. At the end of the day it's still a game and those unreliable signals will never sit well with the masses. Making green's rarer but lowering the success rate seems backwards.

its a simulation game at heart. The masses will need to play on low difficulty levels to suit their needs. Casuals and kids had their green release excessive 3pt party on 2k15, now its simulation ball for 16

[jbthegreat]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

its a simulation game at heart. The masses will need to play on low difficulty levels to suit their needs. Casuals and kids had their green release excessive 3pt party on 2k15, now its simulation ball for 16

Unfortunately this isn't reality. The Majority of 2K consumers are casual to midcore gamers. Also in no way i'm I suggesting that greens should be automatic. I also hope the CPU's AI shooting percentages on the higher difficulties are also lowered and balanced to make it fair.

[MoneyOvaHuds]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Just my IMO idk how the shot meter is a valuable tool when nobody asked for it and it was cool just the way it was

[Jrocc23]

Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Just my IMO idk how the shot meter is a valuable tool when nobody asked for it and it was cool just the way it was

Wasn't it always kind of a meter though, but maybe it just wasn't as visual?

I liked it the way it was, but you was still able to get perfect release but it caused you to look more at the release instead of a meter which I don't really like. Also, don't like it's rare to get perfect releases but in the past it was kind of simple but that was just the release. If you were contested or etc, it'll be off.

[madmax52277]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

The problem is the system feels arbitrary. This game is meant to appeal to the masses even though its heart is sim. The tweaks sound like the system that was in 2k15 pre patch and a lot of people were unsatisfied then and I predict they will be again. I think it would be easier to at least say the shooting percentages are based off of the players real shooting percentages first. This will make the missed green shots easier to swallow. If not it just feels like the game's shooting mechanic 's are unreliable. That's never good especially since its color coded and graded'. At the end of the day it's still a game and those unreliable signals will never sit well with the masses. Making green's rarer but lowering the success rate seems backwards.

I agree with you 100% but this is my own opinion..I don't think the GREEN release is the problem, it's defending it. 2k15 some how don't have that consistently challenge shot ability to throw off the timing of the meter, no penalty just to easy.
So I feel like keep the percentage high when hitting GREEN, and give us more contested ability and call it a day.

[I Djm]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

People still gonna find a way to exploit tho.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[bo.jangles344]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

If we're really going to do the steph curry argument, can we please wait till he's 10 years in his career before we honestly start comparing him?

Reggie Miller is still the best off the dribble shooter of all time in my opinion. Why? Because he'd drain one in your face and then lock you up at the other end, get a steal, and pop another 3 in transition.

That man was cold blooded. But even he didn't shoot 40% on contested shots and probably very low 40s on off the dribble. Most shooters hit their "contested" shots in spot up situations while the defense is trying to recover. If you can run around screens and hit mid-range ir 3s without putting the ball on the floor you will always have a job in the nba.

The problem with using steph as a comparison is he's the exception, not the rule, on taking shots off the dribble.

Still, you don't see him running down to the paint to smash a dunk on everyone either. The way you defend steph is try to keep him from the perimeter and force him inside. The problem is his next level court vision so he's hitting a teammate when someone slides to help. If you could consistently stay in its Jersey, he's not the greatest shooter of all time at that point.

Scheme, team chemistry, and bball iq make steph unguardable in conjunction with his ability to shoot open or slightly contested shots.

He's a great shooter, could be the best ever. But that's just because there's no sure way to defend him since you're constantly getting picked and someone is always open.

There's no magical reason he made so many shots this year, it's mostly scheme and being at the right place at the right time.



Another stat to look at is how many open vs slightly contested shots he actually TOOK, not made.

I'm absolutely certain his open takes vs contested are 3-1.

You can't guard 3-4 knockdown shootets on the court at the same time, so they won a championship combining those 3 with 2 average shooters, now you have 5 guys they can all produce open looks, the cavs were done.

Let the warriors run that small ball all year and see if a couple big men don't ruin that idea.

Open vs contested should be 70/30 split almost exactly. Idc if he's 3 inches off you or 4 feet. Within arms reach, that's a 30 or less percentage with anyone. Not just a "lockdown" defender. With lockdown it should be almost 0, end of story.

[Beluba]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

Thanks for lowering everyone's blood pressure and tamping down the hysteria mike[emoji3] . The emphasis on shot quality and good shot selection is what I took from your post and was music to my ears. My only concern is what I didn't hear; namely that ratings still are taking a back seat to timing and shot selection. Can you please elaborate on how ratings factor into the perfect release equation if at all?

I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year.

Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

[jbthegreat]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year.

Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

I figured the bonuses were effecting the ratings too much. Good luck Mike as a fellow game designer I understand how hard balancing game mechanic's can be. Keep up the good work.

[BluFu]

Re: Green Releases Much Rarer in NBA 2K16, No Longer 100%

I thought this was implied. The player's shot rating is the base that we work from. So if you have a bum who can't throw it in the ocean, you can pretty much gap off the guy and he still won't be a threat. The problem last year was all the modifiers that were tacked on last year (shot timing bonus, openness, etc) overpowered the base ratings. That's no longer the case this year.

Also we did a much better job at syncing up the shot ratings to what real life percentages should map to. The ratings didn't translate very well to real life numbers in 2k15.

Music to my ears Mike