Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

[SportsGamer94]

Three years into next gen and line play still does not come close to resembling what we see on Sundays, especially during pass plays. From the videos I've seen of Madden 16 its still the same old defensive linemen get stonewalled at the los until one of them break off for a b-line towards the Qb, and defensive ends get absolutely no pressure for the most part.
I think the problem is that defensive ends are not able to push offensive tackles backward fast enough allowing the Qb to get the ball off before the pocket forms and collapse.
I think the pocket needs to start forming as soon as the ball is hiked, defensive ends should be headed up field towards the Qb collapsing the pocket by the time the ball reaches the Quarterbacks hand. Why is this do hard to do in Madden?

[TheDudeAbides421]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

It will never look right until foot placement and leverage are properly taken into effect.
They need to have linemen execute run/pass footwork effectively and then use leverage as the multiplier.



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[lowndsy]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

It is far from perfect agreed but the video of Titans vs buccs just come out 1 guy vs cpu looks not to bad at all in my opinion cpu QB still drifts into LDE a lot but looked a lot better than some vids I have seen.

[The JareBear]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

The only videos I have seen where the line play looks bad are all user h2h games. Against CPU it seems fine

I think they had a good thing going last year with the war in the trenches. Line play interactions were somewhat dynamic and pockets formed sometimes. The interior rush was overpowered but they just needed some tuning. It would help if they improved HB and TE blocking on pass plays so people used it more as well to buy more time in the pocket.

Hopefully with sliders in the online cfm we can get a realistic pass rush again.

[SportsGamer94]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

Seems like CPU defensive ends get absolutely no pressure again this year, its been like this for years for some reason, you have to user control to get any pressure with defensive ends accept for an occasional random sack. When I say pressure I dont mean sacking the Qb all the time, I mean having the pocket collapse in of the Qb, have a defensive end like like JJ Watt push offensive tackles into the the Qb all game, I want to see dominate defensive ends be cause havoc all game, again it doesnt mean they are getting five sacks a game, it means they are pressing the Qb, attempting strips on Qb's in an attempt to cause a fumble, bat down passes, causing false starts and holding calls.

[DocHolliday]

Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

Agreed on all fronts OP. The line play does not reflect the NFL at all, and that affects the entire game.

Maybe next year they will redo the line play.

Line play isn't sexy though, not a big sell to the masses.


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[GameBreaker35]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

It will never look right until foot placement and leverage are properly taken into effect.
They need to have linemen execute run/pass footwork effectively and then use leverage as the multiplier.



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This is exactly how I would do it too. You could mo-cap new animations for both bad and good footwork and have that tied to Pass Blocking and Run Blocking Ratings in game. As you pointed out, leverage would be the modifier. This sounds like a pretty solid design choice. I'm sure they have thought about because they have some former offensive lineman that work for them.

[ATLBrayden]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

Agreed on all fronts OP. The line play does not reflect the NFL at all, and that affects the entire game.

Maybe next year they will redo the line play.

Line play isn't sexy though, not a big sell to the masses.


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Yep, even in the real NFL casual fans like to see the flashy players and points scored, even though it's one of the most important things on the football field they couldn't care less for line play.

[SportsGamer94]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

This is exactly how I would do it too. You could mo-cap new animations for both bad and good footwork and have that tied to Pass Blocking and Run Blocking Ratings in game. As you pointed out, leverage would be the modifier. This sounds like a pretty solid design choice. I'm sure they have thought about because they have some former offensive lineman that work for them.

I read somewhere that the NBA Live 16 did 5 on 5 gameplay mocap, hopefully the Madden team does the same but I doubt it, they always seem to have some type of excuse why they can't do something.

[TheDudeAbides421]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

They just need to sit with their NFL lineman and break down what linemen do Barney style. The most complicated thing about playing on the line is the different techniques based on front and shade. Well a processor can figure out those variables in a split second.
So then develop the core of the running schemes
Zone
Gap/Down
Man

You don't even need fold blocks or anything overly complicated. Have the linemen execute a reach, base, angle, bucket and pull step based on scheme and leverage.
So a inside zone play run to a strong 3tech would have a base block by the PlaySide Guard. It's that easy to program and with an NFL linemen in house figuring out the schemes and individual assignments for said schemes shouldn't be hard.
The also would need to implement a first step rating or mechanic as on the line the first step (actually 2-3 steps) are usually the deciding factor


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[MountaineersSon]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

They just need to sit with their NFL lineman and break down what linemen do Barney style. The most complicated thing about playing on the line is the different techniques based on front and shade. Well a processor can figure out those variables in a split second.
So then develop the core of the running schemes
Zone
Gap/Down
Man

You don't even need fold blocks or anything overly complicated. Have the linemen execute a reach, base, angle, bucket and pull step based on scheme and leverage.
So a inside zone play run to a strong 3tech would have a base block by the PlaySide Guard. It's that easy to program and with an NFL linemen in house figuring out the schemes and individual assignments for said schemes shouldn't be hard.
The also would need to implement a first step rating or mechanic as on the line the first step (actually 2-3 steps) are usually the deciding factor


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I read ideas like this and the first thought that comes to mind is EA should hire someone like yourself, even if for just a couple weeks, and get this game right. Being a programmer does not make someone a football x's and o's specialist. This game needs simulation soul brought to its title. It's full blown arcade right down to the way the virtual players move and act.

[GameBreaker35]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

I read ideas like this and the first thought that comes to mind is EA should hire someone like yourself, even if for just a couple weeks, and get this game right. Being a programmer does not make someone a football x's and o's specialist. This game needs simulation soul brought to its title. It's full blown arcade right down to the way the virtual players move and act.

They have plenty of football guys on their staff. The problem is design choice. Take the blocking for example...I can pretty much assure you that the line play was altered from Madden 15 to Madden 16 as a way to address QB sacks and running ability. They probably can't figure out a way to make QB A.I. adjust to pressure, or they can but don't think it would be fun for the player in the context of a video game. Player movement also plays a part in this too.

[TheDudeAbides421]

Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

They have plenty of football guys on their staff. The problem is design choice. Take the blocking for example...I can pretty much assure you that the line play was altered from Madden 15 to Madden 16 as a way to address QB sacks and running ability. They probably can't figure out a way to make QB A.I. adjust to pressure, or they can but don't think it would be fun for the player in the context of a video game. Player movement also plays a part in this too.

That's why they need to standardize the techniques used and not have suction involved. They would have to rework totally how they work it though. New animations and attributes to fully take advantage. They have a lot of detailed attributes for ball carriers from trucking to ball security. They need a burst rating, hand placement rating, hand fighting rating and probably a individual rating for each type of block used by a lineman.

I also feel they need to redo how they let us call a defense. I would like to be able to have a pre game ability to set my defense based on the offensive formation. I could have the wrong personnel in but an automatic adjustment based on the formation. Then use the in game audible system to have a play out of the adjusted front. There are just way to many times that guys are out of position cause of the bad defensive front mechanic.


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[SageInfinite]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

The lineplay will never be what we want it to be. They would have to rewrite too much and they aren't willing to risk it.

[The JareBear]

Re: Line Play During Passes is Still Bad, How Come They Can't get it Right?

I'm going to write a detailed impression soon after I finish more games. So far I think they've nerfed line play quite a bit from last year

You still get sacks, but the whole trench warfare just isn't handled well