Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

[Dj_MyTime]

So I know a lot has been made of the scaled speed, but looking at some of these numbers I’m wondering just how much thought was actually put into this and where are these seemingly opinion based numbers coming from.

There are PLENTY of examples but I’ll leave the comparison to perhaps just a few-

WR -Ted Ginn Jr. (4.28, 40, age 30)-88 speed 91 acc vs MLB-Bobby Wagner(4.46, 40, age 25)- 88 speed 91 acc

So my stance is not that Wagner isn’t rated correctly but wrather why is Ted Ginn rated so low. Some players games are directly related to their speeds, they’re best utilized in space, and in the return game. And he’s still regarded as one of the more dynamic returners in the league, aside from most primes being between the ages of 25-32 I’m just not seeing a reason for such a drastic decline in speed formerly (97).

If you guys have examples please share them, I’m not aking for a return to 97 as maybe he’s lost some speed which I’d wager as minimal, so considering the scaled back ratings 92-94 seems fair.

Thoughts…?

[dat boi Q]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Just something else they implemented but didn't flush out like they were supposed to. But someone here will come up with a defense for them.

[wundrbread33]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

I know what you mean...no way Wagner could keep up with Ginn. I could not believe they gave Ginn an 88 speed rating.

And it isn't like Ginn is some no name player that they overlooked. Most every person who keeps up with college or pro football would recognize the name "Ted Ginn" regardless of his success or lack there of as a receiver...and they all know he is fast.

There are reports from the Panthers training camp that he is as fast as ever and immediately walked into camp as the fastest player on the team. He would be the fastest player on many teams.

[Godgers12]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Sam Shields only being 92 SPD 88 acc is a joke, he is a top 3 fastest CB in the NFL, yet there are about 30 faster CBs than him including an UDFA CB on the Packers.

[bspring3]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

It doesnt really make sense why they did it this way but they took age into account when doing speed. So the older the player is, the more they knocked speed down for that player. I assume their reasoning is, 40 times are from when a player is a rookie, so the older they are the slower they will become. I did a quick test to verify my theory and it seems to be true. I compared a number of players 40 times vs speed and then made an "adjusted speed" that accounts for how long players have been in the NFL. This was done by basically adding one point to their speed for every year they have played. I have this info below. You can see how the speed ratings make much more sense if you take age into account. Again this isn't the best method in my opinion as you can debate whether speed should regress that much. But it is a method and not random.

[Allball76]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

It doesnt really make sense why they did it this way but they took age into account when doing speed. So the older the player is, the more they knocked speed down for that player. I assume their reasoning is, 40 times are from when a player is a rookie, so the older they are the slower they will become. I did a quick test to verify my theory and it seems to be true. I compared a number of players 40 times vs speed and then made an "adjusted speed" that accounts for how long players have been in the NFL. This was done by basically adding one point to their speed for every year they have played. I have this info below. You can see how the speed ratings make much more sense if you take age into account. Again this isn't the best method in my opinion as you can debate whether speed should regress that much. But it is a method and not random.

I think they take into account game speed if you look at Deshawn Jackson 4.3 isn't the fastest 40 time ever but at one time he was 99 speed . Chris Johnson ran a 4.2 and was a 99 speed ! But Jackson on the field in pads just fly's and so dose Adrian Peteson ,also a 4.4 isn't the fastest ever once again . But in pads Peterson has shown he breaks away alot ! I think just because your track fast don't mean u get 99 speed but on the field you never broke a long run or caught a long pass. Your just track fast , I played a lil collage ball. And with pads on and trying to read defenses some people don't move the same . And people like Adrian Peterson (old rating 97) and Jerry Rice move fast ! Rice is a perfect example Bad 40 time but in the game was hard to catch !

[Birdman18]

Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

I think they've gotten speed and acceleration flip flopped.. For the most part, majority of these athletes won't lose as much top line speed as they do the quickness of them getting to that point

https://www.techraptor.net

[Dj_MyTime]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Wasn’t there a FBG post/thread that said players run the 40 each year of their career and that the drop off was around .05 per year in the league? If so why not base the change off of that vs basically taking away 1 pt per year in the league. That just does not make any sense.

These guys train year round, especially the skill position players, working on speed, agility, etc and outside of players that play into their mid-late 30’s I can’t recall any scenarios barring a major injury or extended time off where a guy just didn’t have ‘’IT’’ anymore.

A 4.3 40 over a 10 year period at a loss of .05 per year would still be a 4.35, I just don’t know why developing a method based off real world information is so difficult to do with the resources and access they have. Especially if some guy here on OS has a site built off this very data.

I don’t always agree with their scale but at least it isn’t seemingly random or elementary like this new scale seems to be, I mean seriously receivers with 80 speed….when the majority of pass catching Tight Ends are over 80, and the same for practically every starting LB in the game. How can they expect a balanced game when speed, one of the main points or separation in any sport is done so haphazardly.

For reference there are 48 receivers UNDER 85 speed a lot of which are in the top three in the rotation, I’m sorry but I can’t see NFL teams keeping receivers slower than Tight Ends, and virtually every defensive starter in the game.

[Dj_MyTime]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Wasn’t there a FBG post/thread that said players run the 40 each year of their career and that the drop off was around .05 per year in the league? If so why not base the change off of that vs basically taking away 1 pt per year in the league. That just does not make any sense.

These guys train year round, especially the skill position players, working on speed, agility, etc and outside of players that play into their mid-late 30’s I can’t recall any scenarios barring a major injury or extended time off where a guy just didn’t have ‘’IT’’ anymore.

A 4.3 40 over a 10 year period at a loss of .05 per year would still be a 4.35, I just don’t know why developing a method based off real world information is so difficult to do with the resources and access they have. Especially if some guy here on OS has a site built off this very data.

I don’t always agree with their scale but at least it isn’t seemingly random or elementary like this new scale seems to be, I mean seriously receivers with 80 speed….when the majority of pass catching Tight Ends are over 80, and the same for practically every starting LB in the game. How can they expect a balanced game when speed, one of the main points or separation in any sport is done so haphazardly.

For reference there are 48 receivers UNDER 85 speed a lot of which are in the top three in the rotation, I’m sorry but I can’t see NFL teams keeping receivers slower than Tight Ends, and virtually every defensive starter in the game.

To add onto this there are-

73 MLB's over 80 speed (does not include MLB's at 80).

52 ROLB's over 80 speed (does not include ROLB's at 80).

48 LOLB's over 80 speed (does not include LOLB's at 80).

That's a total of 173 LB's over 80 speed, compared to just 48 receivers at 84 speed or less. That is far to big of an issue to just over-look and turn a blind eye to.

[Hubie]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Do you believe it will get fixed with a roster update or will I eventually need to do it manually?

[jyod21]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Wasn’t there a FBG post/thread that said players run the 40 each year of their career and that the drop off was around .05 per year in the league? If so why not base the change off of that vs basically taking away 1 pt per year in the league. That just does not make any sense.

These guys train year round, especially the skill position players, working on speed, agility, etc and outside of players that play into their mid-late 30’s I can’t recall any scenarios barring a major injury or extended time off where a guy just didn’t have ‘’IT’’ anymore.

A 4.3 40 over a 10 year period at a loss of .05 per year would still be a 4.35, I just don’t know why developing a method based off real world information is so difficult to do with the resources and access they have. Especially if some guy here on OS has a site built off this very data.

I don’t always agree with their scale but at least it isn’t seemingly random or elementary like this new scale seems to be, I mean seriously receivers with 80 speed….when the majority of pass catching Tight Ends are over 80, and the same for practically every starting LB in the game. How can they expect a balanced game when speed, one of the main points or separation in any sport is done so haphazardly.

For reference there are 48 receivers UNDER 85 speed a lot of which are in the top three in the rotation, I’m sorry but I can’t see NFL teams keeping receivers slower than Tight Ends, and virtually every defensive starter in the game.

A loss of .05 off your 40, per year, would be a significant drop. You're using a loss of .005 seconds per year. At a loss of .05 per year, a guy that ran a 4.3 would be running a 4.8 after ten years, not a 4.35.

[dkp23]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

i dont really understand why they changed the scale on stock players, what was the purpose of that? The ratings make no sense for wr/db when comparing the rest of the positions.

The issue was the incoming classes having a ton of crazy rated players. All they needed to do is tone down the draft classes that had a bunch of 99 speed receivers or cbs and limit it down to 5 or less or randomize where maybe one year it would have 1-3 another year can have 6-9. Then tone down the amount of peyton mannings every year.

This is a bit difficult for them it appears

[Dj_MyTime]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Do you believe it will get fixed with a roster update or will I eventually need to do it manually?

Man I have no earthly idea, some of our staff in the CFM we run are against using a community file with updated or even a revert back to the final speeds from Madden 15.

I personally think its an issue when nearly every LB is a fast as receivers in the top 3 on depth charts.

Larry Fitzgerald 81 speed, Brandon Marshall 82 speed, Anquan Boldin 79 speed, receivers like Vincent Jackson, and Keenan Allen are also victims. Jarrett Boykin a 3rd year pro went from 85 to 80 speed, why???

I get these guys were never burners but somewhere between 84-87 seems fair given age, etc.

Seahawks LB speed goes, 88/88/87/87/84/79

PIT-89/87/82/81/81/80 for their fastest guys...as a couple of examples.

I get that LB's are coming in faster as teams look for more coverage ability, but receivers are not getting slower, and no LB's are gonna run step for step even with veteran receivers.

Some of the speeds I listed on those LB's above are faster than starting S's, and DB's. That's an issue IMO. If you want to speed up LB's fine, but the scaled speed should be applied universally.

When you don't do that it opens up room for unrealistic game-play and mis-matches become a mute point. I should be able to run a go pattern vs an LB and win, I shouldn't have to run a route with a 45 degree break to create that space, when there is no help over the top.

I know there are some freak athletes but when you have LB's within 3 points of elite speed players like DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dri Archer, DeAnthony Thomas etc. where is the offense supposed to find the mis-mathc, when some one lines up a LB on a WR in the slot in man you know.

And I'm talking from a fundamental stand point as I know what to do to win the match-ups in the game itself. I just think they went a little over board on WR's and DB's/S's. When most LB's can't even cover the better receiving TE's IRL.

[bspring3]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

Man I have no earthly idea, some of our staff in the CFM we run are against using a community file with updated or even a revert back to the final speeds from Madden 15.

I personally think its an issue when nearly every LB is a fast as receivers in the top 3 on depth charts.

Larry Fitzgerald 81 speed, Brandon Marshall 87 speed, Anquan Boldin 79 speed. I get these guys were never burners but somewhere between 84-87 seems fair given age, etc.

Seahawks LB speed goes, 88/88/87/87/84/79

PIT-89/87/82/81/81/80 for their fastest guys...as a couple of examples.

I get that LB's are coming in faster as teams look for more coverage ability, but receivers are not getting slower, and no LB's are gonna run step for step even with veteran receivers.

Some of the speeds I listed on those LB's above are faster than starting S's, and DB's. That's an issue IMO. If you want to speed up LB's fine, but the scaled speed should be applied universally.

When you don't do that it opens up room for unrealistic game-play and mis-matches become a mute point. I should be able to run a go pattern vs an LB and win, I shouldn't have to run a route with a 45 degree break to create that space.

I know there are some freak athletes but when you have LB's within 3 points of elite speed players like DeSean Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dri Archer, DeAnthony Thomas etc. where is the offense supposed to find the mis-mathc, when some one lines up a LB on a WR in the slot in man you know.

And I'm talking from a fundamental stand point as I know what to do to win the match-ups in the game itself. I just think they went a little over board on WR's and DB's/S's. When most LB's can't even cover the better receiving TE's IRL.

This is no way verified by EA, but from my experience with the game so far, weight seems to have a major impact on speed. A 260 pound 88 speed seems to be slower than a 220 pound 88 speed. This is especially noticeable with RBs. I have also noticed some quick linebackers who cannot keep up with WRs who have lower speed (I have tested this in practice). So even though it has not been said, my theory is that weight actually factors into speed to some degree.

[khaliib]

Re: Scaled Speed Not Making any Sense...

I think they take into account game speed if you look at Deshawn Jackson 4.3 isn't the fastest 40 time ever but at one time he was 99 speed . Chris Johnson ran a 4.2 and was a 99 speed ! But Jackson on the field in pads just fly's and so dose Adrian Peteson ,also a 4.4 isn't the fastest ever once again . But in pads Peterson has shown he breaks away alot ! I think just because your track fast don't mean u get 99 speed but on the field you never broke a long run or caught a long pass. Your just track fast , I played a lil collage ball. And with pads on and trying to read defenses some people don't move the same . And people like Adrian Peterson (old rating 97) and Jerry Rice move fast ! Rice is a perfect example Bad 40 time but in the game was hard to catch !

Depending on your level of live experience, one would understand that this is 100% correct.

There's combine/Pro-Day/Track speeds, then there's "Game" speed.

The best advice I received was at a Free Agent tryout at the Chargers.
"Your 4.4 speed is negated because your mind is reacting at 5.5 speed".

A slow mind makes a fast player, play slow.

So the issue is with Madden is how do you replicate this in their game?
It truly is a two-edge sword with this issue.