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Originally Posted by BigT34 |
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I've got to say something about this. I've always given you credit for being a really thoughtful guy--I'd like to think you're bigger than falling into this black/white split of "real basketball" vs. stats. The point of stats is to try to portray what happens on the court.
Do you use things like points per game or rebounds per game to compare players? Those are statistics, too. A lot of these statistics like DRB% are simply dividing rebounds by possessions instead of rebounds by game played--it's still division, just with a different number.
I've played basketball my whole life, I grew up with the game. Everyone who has ever played basketball knows that the little things matter, such as how you set a screen, or that the pass that leads to the assist can be just as important as the assist itself. We've all played with guys who love to chuck and can score lots of points, but who don't pass the ball or who fail to see wide open players and thus hurt their team. We've all played with guys who seem to make everyone else better by doing the little things well, like boxing out, contesting shots, etc--these things don't get recorded in the box score.
Anyone who's ever played post defense knows that blocking shots is a tiny part of the equation--you have to have good footwork, you have to keep your guy from catching the ball deep, you have to stay vertical, you have to contest his shot if you can't block it. The beauty of more modern statistics is really that there is more nuanced DATA, e.g. that we can now, finally, actually measure how much contesting a shot impacts the chance it goes in--these stats allow us to appreciate, with numbers, why a guy like Tiago Splitter can actually be such a valuable player. The same can be said for assists--we all know the pain of making a perfect pass only to have our teammate miss the shot. But the pass was still a great pass. Things like SportVU, coupled with more modern analysis, allows us to start to quantify which players are making the best passes, regardless of whether their teammates are competent enough to make the shot.
Using numbers to compare players over time is part of what makes basketball fun. But nobody is saying they tell the ENTIRE story--they just enrich the picture. Stats and "old school basketball" are hardly mutually exclusive. And for a roster maker as passionate as you are, this stats revolution would seem to be a goldmine.
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I would love to use Stats, but they dont have them to track back in the Earlier ERAs, so using them in Any conversation in a Historical Debate about who is best, for Me personally is useless. Plus Defense and the Way Players play Defense have changed as well. Now FT% is a transferable Stat in any ERA, but most other Stats cant be.
Now for Modern Basketball it works, but still has to be taken with a grain of salt. What i mean for example is % of contested shots made for example. If there is a stat that tracks the Individual Height of the Player and Defensive Ability of that player contesting, then it could work, but I havent found that site. Like people using the Per 36 min stats, etc. Those are Fine IF a player is Playing 36 minutes, but if there averages come off of 15 minutes of playing time, that doesnt work for me. Examples like that make me go back to basketball knowledge rather than Stats. I dont need Stats to be able to value a player, guys like you and I will be able to see there value from watching them play. Maybe some need stats, but i am more about the performance on the court.
As you brought up passing a PG could be a GREAT but lead the League in Turnovers due to his Teammates not anticipating where the pass is Going or stopping a cut to the basket to run back to the 3pt line. Now IF someone didnt watch the game and ONLY looked at the Stats, then they would say this PG is Turnover Prone.
I dont care what Stat is Used, in My basketball World(over 30 years playing, coaching, scouting, watching) no Post Player in Today's NBA can Compare to Ewing, Hakeem, or DRob. And to say they wouldnt have as much success in Today's NBA is Untrue in my opinion.
I honestly dont rely on Stats as much as some other Roster guys, for the simple fact Stats dont always Translate. I would rather watch Game Tape all day to evaluate a Player.