NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

To be fair there's more to athleticism thank dunks. Besides if you're 6'6 and can't dunk you're just plain lazy haha.

As stated, wingspan matters more than height (since when do players dunk with the top of their head?), and Wroten/Rose are near equal in that regard.

For athleticism I'm looking at hops, speed, stamina, acceleration, body control in the air (sign of a great core, a la Wall), ability to change direction quickly, lateral movement/speed, strength and other stuff.

Yeah and something tells me you (or anyone else commenting against him) don't know enough about Tony Wroten in this regard to say that he isn't a better athlete than a broken D-Rose. Athleticism is basically the only thing going for him.

Just looking at dunks is really simplifying it.

But certainly a measurable factor, given that anyone with the athleticism to DUNK a shot at 95% success as opposed to LAY it at 55-60% success is going to perform the sure shot more often the opportunity presents itself.

For PGs these opportunities and values are consistent since they aren't exactly dunking over 7-footers in traffic.

But hey. That's just me.

I've been studying this this a couple years and have written articles on 2K's dunk rating. (But that's just me).

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

More detailed PG breakdown (in the 30 mins I had before running to work)

http://thereal2kinsider.blogspot.com/2015/08/official-nba-2k16-player-ratings.html

Feast your eyes on ratings that barely move the needle!

Behold! The degree you were suckered by 2K marketing!

HoF Scale!
We reduced PG OVR by 1-point across the board, but just wait til you see what we did to your PF and C!

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

To be fair there's more to athleticism thank dunks. Besides if you're 6'6 and can't dunk you're just plain lazy haha.

For athleticism I'm looking at hops, speed, stamina, acceleration, body control in the air (sign of a great core, a la Wall), ability to change direction quickly, lateral movement/speed, strength and other stuff.

Just looking at dunks is really simplifying it.

But hey. That's just me.

Yeah, dunks would be an arbitrary and frankly strange measure for athleticism-- especially when dunks are something that happen on opportunity, and that's heavily influenced by the type of offense a team runs and whether they get out in transition, especially for guards. The Bulls aren't exactly a fast paced transition team, and they favor a grind it out offense.


It's also highly correlated with player height and length, much more than it is to athleticism (Wroten has two inches on Rose).


I mean Gordon Haywood, Corey Brewer, Andre Iguodala, and even Harrison Barnes all have more dunks last season than, say Westbrook has in most of his seasons. Are they all more athletic than Westbrook, and say Zach Lavine (also 10+ less than any of these guys)? Iguodala with supposedly "no pulse" has more regular season dunks than Westbrook's best season. Is a broken down Iguodala more athletic than Westbrook's prime?


Even post-injury Shaun Livingston has similar dunk numbers to the group above, and dunked more than twice as often in the last two season than ANY of his pre-injury seasons. Did Livingston actually get MORE athletic than ever after nearly losing his leg?


It would be like judging playmaking based on numbers of behind-the-back passes, or general ball handling based on numbers of ankle breakers.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

I mean Gordon Haywood, Corey Brewer, Andre Iguodala, and even Harrison Barnes all have more dunks last season than, say Westbrook has in most of his seasons.

Those players are all wings.
Each position gets dunks in different ways.
Team schemes don't play that much of a factor here.

Even post-injury Shaun Livingston has similar dunk numbers to the group above, and dunked more than twice as often in the last two season than ANY of his pre-injury seasons. Did Livingston actually get MORE athletic than ever after nearly losing his leg?

He started playing SG (i.e. off the ball), for one.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Lolwut @ equating number of dunks to athleticism.

Lolwut at not putting in any research over an extended period and pretending you know any better based on casual glances with an untrained eye

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Rashidi

You're clearly not getting it! Everyone is the same! Scheme and player roles. If someone like Westbrook is so athletic, he should have more dunks than Brandon Bass!



Was that convincing?

[Rain723]

It's called an opinion, and to be honest I don't care about some random nobody "taking me serious".

Go look up their stats; identical. So I can compare them all I want. All day, every day, any time, any where. So when I say they have identical stats but Wroten's taller and more athletic, I can then say I'd rather have him....and he's much younger.

There's no way Rose has the rating he has right now, there's plenty of guards (realistically) better than him. Wroten shouldn't be higher but he shouldn't be 9 points lower if they have the same stats, right? Okay.

You have the right to your opinion... And I have the right to laugh, disagree, and tell you how ridiculous you sound... You just tried to validate your argument of TONY WROTEN deserving to be on par with DERRICK ROSE because he had more dunks than him? Do you not realize how laughable that is? The world has a few billion people in it and if we were all asked to choose between Tony Wroten and D. Rose all of us would choose Rose except you lol. Derrick hasn't lost as much athleticism as you may think. He was taking it easy this season, getting his body used to playing in the NBA. I mean the guy did miss 2 years of action. And when he felt like it, he showed that he was every bit as explosive as he used to be. He's just being SMARTER instead of running around like a mad man with his speed and athleticism. The only thing he did wrong this year was rely TOO much on his jumpshot. And come playoff time he showed that he's still a force to be reckoned with. But we can have this conversation again during the season and you tell me if you still think Tony Wroten compares to D. Rose. Numbers and metrics don't mean everything. Side note, Rise brought his A game and went head to head with the top PG's in the league this year and played extremely well in those head to head match ups. He often scored 25 plus with upwards of 6 or 7 assists (his MVP numbers) against star PG's.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

More detailed PG breakdown (in the 30 mins I had before running to work)

http://thereal2kinsider.blogspot.com/2015/08/official-nba-2k16-player-ratings.html

Feast your eyes on ratings that barely move the needle!

Behold! The degree you were suckered by 2K marketing!

HoF Scale!
We reduced PG OVR by 1-point across the board, but just wait til you see what we did to your PF and C!

PG's being hit less by PF's in the new All-Time scale is exactly what I would expect. Guards were already being scaled relative to each other and with some of the greatest shooters to ever play still being in the league, I wouldn't expect much change there. Same goes for passing and playmaking with CP3 being considered one of the top 2-3 point guards ever. So some of the most important skills for a PG don't cause ratings to bump down much because they already have contemporary anchors for their skill ratings on the high end.


Meanwhile, there is a significant gap between the best rebounder today and Rodman. Just as there is a significant gap between the best post player today to Hakeem. High end bigs just aren't as good in certain areas as their predecessors-- so it would be completely expected that the new scale would drop them more as a whole.


However, I would be in favor of an adjustment to the OVR calculation itself to bring up the value of bigs in proportion to guards where they are underrated.


And interesting that Westbrook is the lowest 29 PER player ever and got a major 5 point drop. Actually this makes me EXTREMELY impressed with 2K for not falling for the high box score/PER/athleticism trap. He's rated almost perfectly in relation to the top end point guards and players.


Extremely, extremely impressed in being a textbook case for casual overrating that 2K successfully navigated past this year.


I agree that Rose is a travesty however. They need to stop the inconsistency with the popular-player-injury-exception, especially when it's gone on for multiple seasons.

[jk31]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

George Hill still not getting the love deserved by 2k... Very good season by him, same PER as Kyrie Irving and still he is just the 20th best PG in the league though there are just 4 PGs in the league with a better PER.

[Epyc]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Wow. All this talk because of ratings? You can still put up 40 and 10 with Rose if you want to.. Stop crying about ratings which you think are off by 2-3 points.. gosh.

[CookNBA03]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

People got to knock off these ratings talk or I'll start campaigning Mario Chalmers deserves a higher rating than a measly 72.

[Rain723]

Wow. All this talk because of ratings? You can still put up 40 and 10 with Rose if you want to.. Stop crying about ratings which you think are off by 2-3 points.. gosh.

That's not the point. My argument wasn't about Rose's rating. I think his rating is fine considering his performance. My argument was with the guy who claimed that Tony Wroten should be rated near him or that his overall should be lowered to put him closer to Wroten. That's my gripe.

[Kashanova]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

People got to knock off these ratings talk or I'll start campaigning Mario Chalmers deserves a higher rating than a measly 72.

72 is too high for that guy. I'd give him a 70.

[Kstat]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

I wish they would do classic player ratings by position alongside the current ones but I suppose that's asking a lot. I'm actually more curious how the classic players' ratings changed.

[CookNBA03]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

72 is too high for that guy. I'd give him a 70.

He has to be better than or equal to Norris Cole lol, not worst.