NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Don't tell stats guys that. Don't tell them the game is played on court.

Why is Rose being cautious, though? Can his body take his style when he isn't being cautious?

You can't just assume he's automatically going back to 2011.

People that dismiss stats are just hilarious.

[Hopsin]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Why is Rose being cautious, though? Can his body take his style when he isn't being cautious?



You can't just assume he's automatically going back to 2011.



People that dismiss stats are just hilarious.

Why is he being cautious? Maybe bc he has a injury history problem? & I never said stats don't matter, but you can't just look at stats without watching actual games.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Why is he being cautious? Maybe bc he has a injury history problem? & I never said stats don't matter, but you can't just look at stats without watching actual games.

That's exactly my point. How do you know he won't be cautious this season?

[dmankey1]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Was Cameron Payne released anywhere?

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[jcwkings]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

In general PG ratings are fine. My only gripe is Russell is way too high. As of now he looks like Kendall Marshall with a better 3 pt shot, and he is a one way player to boot. Should be 74-75 like Mudiaye and thats being generous because he was the #2 pick.

[joenuts83]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Reading through this thread is brutal. D-Rose is getting slandered hard in here by people that clearly didn't watch a whole lot of Bulls games last year as opposed to looking at box scores.

my point exactly. who is the only PG to win in Oracle from the east in the regular season. all while destroying chef curry with a jimmyless bulls team. what point guard went 4 and 0 against lowry and 3 and 1 against wall. he beat Lillard parker and harden on their court too.

he beat cp3 at home too past season....

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[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Those players are all wings.
Each position gets dunks in different ways.
Team schemes don't play that much of a factor here.

He started playing SG (i.e. off the ball), for one.

Livingston plays PG, and he doesn't primarily play off ball for the Warriors. He's primary ball handler in the second unit unless he's in a 3-guard lineup for spot minutes, which wasn't his main role for most of the regular season.

Livingston is a PG that gets dunks despite lost athleticism because of a fast paced, transition offense and his own length.

Let's look at a few more examples. Patrick Beverley is a pretty athletic guard. He even plays off ball which you suggest should help dunks. He has 4 dunks to his entire Career. Ty Lawson has been one of the quickest guards his career. He has 11 to his name, ever. Steph Curry has 4 dunks just this season and 14 for his career. Is Curry really better athletically than either Lawson or Beverley?

Come on, man. Dunks are a noisy and arbitrary measure for athleticism, period. Much better measures would be combine measurements or SportsVu data. And pretty odd that you would say that schemes don't affect dunk numbers. Pace directly affects numbers of possessions as does offensive efficiency. Transition offenses and ability to create live turnovers lead to higher dunk numbers.

Just look at GSW. They were #2 in the league in dunks last year. No one is jumping out of the building on that team even though they are all long and athletic enough. Not-so-coincidentally, they were also the #2 offense last year and #1 in pace.

With roughly the same roster just the year before, GSW was #12 in offense and #6 in pace. Not so suprisingly, they also dropped to #6 in dunks.

We can see that there is likely stronger correlation between coaching, offenses, pace, and length of players to dunk totals than there is justification to say one player is definitively more athletic than the other based on noisy dunk data from a position that typically has the smallest sample to work with in the first place.

Now there's obviously SOME not-insignificant correlation between verticality, speed and number of dunks, but length factors in heavily as well. There are so many other factors that I've never actually seen dunk numbers quoted alone before as a conclusive case for comparing athleticism in serious basketball discussion.

[8KB24]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Why do you have to be one or the other? I've never understood that position. It's just flat out ignorance. The only way to make an informed decision is to take in ALL available information and form a decision then.

So to ignore all metrics and stats is just as ignorant as those who rely solely on them.

They're just as bad as each other.

I love stats and analytics as much as the next guy...but I gotta know how players achieved these stats.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

my point exactly. who is the only PG to win in Oracle from the east in the regular season. all while destroying chef curry with a jimmyless bulls team. what point guard went 4 and 0 against lowry and 3 and 1 against wall. he beat Lillard parker and harden on their court too.

he beat cp3 at home too past season....

That's a super tiny sample size man. I remember that game.

The game was GSW's except for a mindless turnover in the last seconds of regulation by Curry when he just needed to call a time out.

Rose shot horribly and was chucking that game and he had 11 turnovers. The Warriors seem to defend Rose well, even from what I remember before his injury, and this was no exception. He scored 30 on 33 shots, which is the opposite of "torching" by any measure. This is a pretty terrible example of Rose's dominance. And he had 1 assist in FIVE periods.

The main difference was GSW was getting killed on the boards and was getting to the line at double GSW's rate-- 0 of which were shot by Rose. The Bulls had 15 extra shot attempts even with all of Rose's turnovers. He hit a game winner, so that's cool. But no, that wasn't a good game by Rose.


In fact 11-33 shooting, 1 assist as PG, and 11 turnovers are the exact type of numbers that should drop Rose, especially if that is held up as an example of one of his better games. Admitedly, I had originally thought 84 was only a little inflated but you're actually reminding me of how terrible Rose really was.

[MGSW]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

I love stats and analytics as much as the next guy...but I gotta know how players achieved these stats.

Like I said. All available information. Stats and good old fashioned eye test. And everything in between.

[Kese86]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Point Guards

Still not the way it works though is it? That's not how people compare players. It's a dumb way to do it.

Now if you want to analyse their games and the metrics and compare them, I'm happy to do that. If you want to play some sort of pseudo-MYGM because you're craving 2k16 so much I'll have to pass. Sorry.

Actually I was referring to real life GMs. This has nothing to do with 2K. Metrics are fine if the with the eye test players are comparable, but that isn't the case with Westbrook and Conley. You called him Westbrick in a previous post so if you personally don't like him just say that. Crunching numbers aren't the be all, end all. Westbrook is a more dynamic player. He can guard multiple positions and affects the game in more ways offensively than Conley. Just watching games will tell you that without using any metrics.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Point Guards

Actually I was referring to real life GMs. This has nothing to do with 2K. Metrics are fine if the with the eye test players are comparable, but that isn't the case with Westbrook and Conley. You called him Westbrick in a previous post so if you personally don't like him just say that. Crunching numbers aren't the be all, end all. Westbrook is a more dynamic player. He can guard multiple positions and affects the game in more ways offensively than Conley. Just watching games will tell you that without using any metrics.

Westbrook actually shows up fantasticly on advanced metrics in addition to the eye test. But the metrics reveal that his defense is actually subpar despite its aesthetics and that near-30 PER and all those triple doubles don't actually have MVP-level impact.

There are a lot of things that can fool the eye test, and advaned metrics casts a light on them. If Westbrook can defend multiple positions, he's not doing it very well.

And yes, Westbrook is a much more impactful player than Conley, by the eye test and especially by analytics.

[8KB24]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top Rated Point Guards (UPDATED)

Like I said. All available information. Stats and good old fashioned eye test. And everything in between.

So...we agree

[MGSW]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Point Guards

Actually I was referring to real life GMs. This has nothing to do with 2K. Metrics are fine if the with the eye test players are comparable, but that isn't the case with Westbrook and Conley. You called him Westbrick in a previous post so if you personally don't like him just say that. Crunching numbers aren't the be all, end all. Westbrook is a more dynamic player. He can guard multiple positions and affects the game in more ways offensively than Conley. Just watching games will tell you that without using any metrics.

I completely disagree.

1. He can't even guard his own position never mind multiple. He's a horrible defender. His athleticism and quick hands hides how terrible he truly is. He's worse than Harden. He's constantly caught out of position and he always reaches too much. Gambling all the time. The difference between him and Conley defensively is night and day.

2. He can't run an offense like Conley can. Not even close. He doesn't have the same fundamentals or vision.

3. He can't shoot. At all. He's a terrible shot.

4. He's an awful decision maker. Literally the worst out of all starting point guards.

5. He's horribly inefficient. Conley isn't.

6. His usage rate was historically massive. So all those triple doubles... meh.

7. The only thing Westbrook has over Conley is athleticism and rebounding. That's it.


I don't dislike the guy. I dislike people overrating him. He's not a top 3 point guard. He's barely top 5.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Point Guards

I completely disagree.

1. He can't even guard his own position never mind multiple. He's a horrible defender. His athleticism and quick hands hides how terrible he truly is. He's worse than Harden. He's constantly caught out of position and he always reaches too much. Gambling all the time. The difference between him and Conley defensively is night and day.

2. He can't run an offense like Conley can. Not even close. He doesn't have the same fundamentals or vision.

3. He can't shoot. At all. He's a terrible shot.

4. He's an awful decision maker. Literally the worst out of all starting point guards.

5. He's horribly inefficient. Conley isn't.

6. His usage rate was historically massive. So all those triple doubles... meh.

7. The only thing Westbrook has over Conley is athleticism and rebounding. That's it.


I don't dislike the guy. I dislike people overrating him. He's not a top 3 point guard. He's barely top 5.

A couple things. While Conley is certainly a better decision maker, Westbrook isn't THAT much more inefficient than Conley.


Westbrook's career TS: .525
Conley's career TS: .537

That is not really that large a gap. Now Conley's season last year was siginfiicantly better at .558, but Westbrook had a TS of .536, close to Conley career at INSANE usage. That is an impressive feat, even if it doesn't move the needle for me as much as triple doubles and PER might move some casuals.

And again, Westbrook shows up way better on most metrics simply for being a force on the court, even despite his inefficiency which if horrible, Conley's would then be slightly less horrible. I will say that I don't like my clear Option 1 player having only NBA average efficiency, however. It's essentially both a floor and ceiling for how good your offense can be. OKC doesn't usually have that problem though, since Durant is Option 1, even if Westbrook sometimes forgets.

Strangely Conley doesn't show up well according to advanced defensive metrics. Now it's a little better than Westbrook according to RPM, but not very much so.