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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
They are close. Blake can run an offense and to me that might give him the slight edge. At times he's basically an extra guard on the court for them.
Blake would average more rebounds if not playing alongside the best rebounder in the league (averaged 13 in the playoffs actually), he would score more if he got the touches and was demanded of it like Cousins is, and he's a PF, ridiculous to expect him to block as many shots as Cousins especially given that they have Jordan.
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
What is this even supposed to mean? I played basketball my entire life and I watch the game with a passion. However I'm not ******** and understand that I don't watch 82 games and analyze every defensive possession, and I'm sure neither do you. There are times where players will miss defensive rotations which leads to points and as a human we won't notice it.
Advanced stats got the rockets to the Western Conference, it also is the driving force behind the warriors play style and the shape of the league today. Teams are increasingly moving toward shooting 3's and attacking the paint and trying to eliminate mid range jumpers as much as possible. The people who don't believe in advanced stats, aka people with archaic basketball philosophies like byron scott are being left in the dust with their extremely inefficient offenses.
Obviously talent is still the single most important thing, but with analytics you can maximize that talent.
It's clear you simply don't understand them that is all rofl. They are very important and thus, why teams are spending so much money to understand them more and will continue to do so.
Your arguments are literally "LOL YOU THINK CURRY IS A GOOD DEFENDER" with no other evidence, because all evidence based off of last year shows curry played above average to good defense. Evidence from previous years suggests he was a poor defender which he was at the time... it's called improving. It's a thing player's can do in case you weren't aware.Comment
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
---.---- MY post literally said it's measured in points per 100 possessions, i was saying no how that has literally NOTHING to do or correlate with the fact that it is impacted by teammates rofl.
If you want an explanation by the people who actually created it
"It reflects the impact of each player on his team's scoring margin after controlling for the strength of every teammate and every opponent during each minute he's on the court.
Adjusted +/- ratings indicate how many additional points are contributed to a team's scoring margin by a given player in comparison to the league-average player whose adjusted +/- value is zero over the span of a typical game. It is assumpted that in a typical game a team has 100 offensive and 100 defensive possessions. For example, if a +6.5 "adjusted +/-" player is on the floor with 4 average teammates, his team will average about 6.5 points better per 100 possessions than 5 average players would."
"[The] metric isolates the unique plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate, opposing player and coach. ... The RPM model sifts through more than 230,000 possessions each NBA season to tease apart the "real" plus-minus effects attributable to each player, employing techniques similar to those used by scientific researchers when they need to model the effects of numerous variables at the same time."
There is literally only two ways to measure which is per game and per 100 possessions lol, that has absolutely nothing to do or correlate with the fact that it's impacted by how good their teammates are.
But regardless, don't have to believe me, but if you choose not to believe the creators of the metric then there really is no point in even debating with you rofl.Comment
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
The problem with the entire stat is that any one player does not allow or keep a player from scoring it takes all 5 guys.
It looks likes all its accounting for is that with Curry on the floor the Warriors are better defensively.. Which might not even be determined by his defensive impact alone. It could be a number of things, how well their offense is flowing and how that sways the momentum of the game. Who he shares the majority of his minutes with.
How does DRPM specifically measure anything Curry does individually on defense?
I would be interested in seeing the formula, however I cannot find one.
Any stat based on "on-court impact on team defense" does not completely out rule the other 4 guys on the court. If Curry spends more time on the court with Draymond and Bogut than he does Speights and Barbosa he's going to have a higher DRPM. No?
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
No, not at all. No stat is perfect but this is as close to it as we will get. I was a finance major/ used to be big into stats, there's controls you can set up for the variables aka in this instance his teammates, the opponents and their impact etc and they apparently even go beyond that incorporating coaches and crap. They're just using w/e player-tracking tools these statisticians use now-a-days but it would be highly complex analyzing literally every possession/every combination of players/ how those players/team perform for each possible lineup and situation throughout the course of the season, then will also have controls for how good the opposing offense is etc. It's complicated ****, but easy to do with the technology for player-tracking now. But the controls are set to eliminate the skewing from teammates, that's literally the only advantage of DRPM over traditional Defensive box/minus and was the reason it was created. Which is why I gave the tony parker example to show how it sifts out players who are still negatively impacting the team's defense despite them being on the court with elite defenders most of the time.
To give another example, houston was 6th in defensive efficiency last year with harden playing 38 min a game, but he still has a negative DRPM.Last edited by cbpo; 09-23-2015, 04:00 AM.Comment
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
I get that, but you can't measure every defensive possession and if the opponent scores or not without the other 4 players having an impact.
DRPM doesn't even have its own formula, it's simply RPM - ORPM.
Parker has a RPM of -3.15, and an ORPM of 0.18, that's why his DRPM is -3.33.
The entire formula is based heavily on opponent points and the scoring margin. You can't dismiss the other 4 defenders on the court because there is no possible way to eliminate them from the other teams scoring output.
This isn't simple statistics, you can't just eliminate 4 players impact against how many points an opposing team scored while they are on the court.
The Parker example still relies on team defense, his DRPM would probably be even lower without Duncan, Kawhi, etc. because overall it's still trying to measure one players impact based on the teams defense. Because the entire stat relies purely on point differential, not individual defensive capabilities.
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
This clearly stats that it does factor in your teammates.
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The best shooters in NBA Live 16 are Kevin Love and (I guess) Shawn Marion :-)
Last edited by NastyGT; 09-23-2015, 11:04 AM.Comment
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Not saying his assist totals shouldn't be much higher but.... the players that have surrounded him has NOT been the most consistent with the J or layups on the 1st attempts. As a knick fan I've watched him play and he's not that bad of a defender too. He plays help d and his man skills aren't as bad as people make it to be.Comment
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Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players
No man, I'm really not trying to be rude but you don't understand it at all. Also the picture you posted, taking into account teammates is the simple way of stating that it adjusts for teammates. I specifically posted what it does from the creators and I also understand statistics. Like, there's no point in arguing if you don't even believe it from their own words lol. Being able to separate the affects of teammates is entirely possible and there are many more real world situations far more complex than this, where statisticians have to develop models to eliminate variables that would otherwise skew the data. It is impossible to be perfect, but the margin for error on these things is really low.
Also what you said about DRPM being RPM - ORPM , no offense sort of elaborates on this point lol.
Of course DRPM is going to be RPM - ORPM -.-. The RPM is going to be determined by the addition of the DRPM and ORPM.... The ORPM is calculated and let's say its 1.5, and the DRPM is calculated and let's say its 2... then the RPM(real plus minus) is going to be 3.5. So obviously if you subtract the ORPM from that you're going to get DRPM... lol
It's w.e though, no point in debating, I posted elaborating from the Creator's words what the statistic does. It was the only reason why it was created since traditional BPM is skewed by teammates. It works on the opposite end of the spectrum as well. If you were to go to NBA. com and do a proper comparative analysis, you would see that the Warriors Offensive rating is like 117 with steph on the court but 103 without him. In this traditional sense that means curry would be "worth" 14 points offensively. However, this traditional stat is indeed skewed by the teammates he has on the floor.
Then if you go to ORPM which takes into this account, you get a Completely different number, much lower, with curry's being like 7.5 because it removes the skewing from his teammates that would otherwise be there.
And with your parker example its quite the contrary. Parker's DBPM is -2.2, his DRPM is -3.3
There is a difference in these two metrics. His DBPM is higher than his DRPM because his DBPM is skewed and aided by his teammates so it suggests tony parker is a better defender than he actually is. Where as his DRPM, adjusts for the affect of his teammates and shows parker is an even worse defender.
To give One last example, then im really completely done with this lol. Rockets were 6th in defensive efficiency. Harden plays 38 min a game so with his defensive numbers being skewed by the defensive strength of his teammates, having ariza, dwight, josh smith etc his Defensive Box Plus Minus(DBPM) is 1.0 suggesting harden is a good defender. Now while, he definitely improved alot vs the previous year where he was abysmal he still isn't a good defender. Now if you take a look at his DRPM, it's -.16 suggesting he's a below average defender like he is. Once again, literally the only purpose of the creation of DRPM was to eliminate the variables of teammates as much as humanly possible.
Its why someone like Michael-Kidd-Gilchrist has a DRPM of 3.6 and meanwhile Kemba Walker has a DRPM of -2, despite them both playing a majority of their minutes together but then if you look at their DBPM MKG is only 1.3 while Kemba Walker's is .1 This is WORLD's apart, If you looked only at their DBPM the difference between the two in defensive value would be only 1.2 but if you look at their DRPM it's 5.6 because once again it eliminates the skew of strength of teammates/opponents.
If that doesn't demonstrate what it does then it's impossible to convince you lol. It appears you just don't understand "how" they're able to eliminate the affects of teammates, which is indeed a complex process but creating a model for that wouldn't be that difficult for a statistician especially with the technology the NBA has it's disposal now.Last edited by cbpo; 09-23-2015, 01:46 PM.Comment
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