NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

[Jonjon22]

You guys can argue all you want about curry being a good defender but the fact of the matter is he almost never guards the opposing teams best point guard. When he goes up against the likes of John wall, Derrick rose, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Mike Conley etc 9/10 times klay is on them. Curry's defense gets expose when he goes up against those guards. It's easier to get steals/gamble when one of the best defender on your team ( klay Thompson) is doing your job. I don't like bashing curry because he's one of the top 3 best point guards in the game. But to say he's an above average defender is ludicrous. He Has Improved On That End On The court no doubt about that. But he's average at most Chris paul and Westbrook are better on that end of the floor.

[cbpo]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

You guys can argue all you want about curry being a good defender but the fact of the matter is he almost never guards the opposing teams best point guard. When he goes up against the likes of John wall, Derrick rose, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Mike Conley etc 9/10 times klay is on them. Curry's defense gets expose when he goes up against those guards. It's easier to get steals/gamble when one of the best defender on your team ( klay Thompson) is doing your job. I don't like bashing curry because he's one of the top 3 best point guards in the game. But to say he's an above average defender is ludicrous. He Has Improved On That End On The court no doubt about that. But he's average at most Chris paul and Westbrook are better on that end of the floor.

The main issue is that, as an observer we are really only paying attention to 1 on 1 basketball. Curry "overall" is an above average defender but if we're talking about strictly on ball defense or 1 on 1 defense then yes he is slightly below average and the data shows that. If you look at defensive iso stats curry is like in the 47th% for guards. Where he makes up for this though is his off-ball and team D. On ball D is only one aspect of defense and unless you're playing against westbrook, there's only a handful of situations that the point guard is going to be isolating 1 on 1. Ability to guard the pick and roll, denying your man, recognizing and making the right rotations are all apart of defense and even more important and you don't have to be very athletic to do so you just need high IQ. Aka Tim duncan being an elite defender despite being the most physically ungifted bigman. Curry is definitely a below average - average at best on ball defender due in part to his athleticism and size, and klay is a solid on ball defender so it makes sense for him to guard the best opposing guard.

Where curry makes up for it though is his team defense IQ.

People literally only think about on ball D when talking about defense for guards which is a huge problem. Someone like chris paul, is an elite on ball defender but then if you follow him off-ball he often loses his man and overplays the passing lanes. And the data shows where CP3 is #1 among PG's in Defensive ISO PPP but not the case for his overall defensive body of work.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

You guys can argue all you want about curry being a good defender but the fact of the matter is he almost never guards the opposing teams best point guard.

1. This is not factually accurate.
2. There is more to NBA defense than playing 1v1. This is not the 90s, it isn't even the 2000s. Curry's overall defense improved because he reads passing lanes much better (significantly better than someone like Tony Parker ever did).

But to say he's an above average defender is ludicrous.

I don't think you have much of a concept of what an "average defender" at the PG position looks like. The vast majority are NEGATIVE defenders.

He Has Improved On That End On The court no doubt about that. But he's average at most Chris paul and Westbrook are better on that end of the floor.

Paul is a bit overrated defensively. He might be the best SMALL defender in the league due to his IQ/toughness, but at the end of the day he still has all the same limitations as Ty Lawson, Isaiah Thomas, J.J. Barea, Aaron Brooks, Tony Parker, etc (the bad side of that spectrum)...

Westbrook did not defend very well this year given that he exerted more energy on offense than usual. Of course, Curry took a leap on BOTH ends this year so it's not exactly a great excuse.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

But my point is that the DRPM doesn't actually calculate anything he does individually on defensive. Whatever they do to remove his teammates impacts still doesn't change the fact that the stat itself is point differential based.

It still just gives the impact of how much better/worse the TEAM defense is with Curry on the court. Which like I said before doesn't always correlate to Curry being a great individual defensive factor. It could be due to offense, runs, momentum, etc. the stat is so largely skewed on point differential, and GS averaged the largest differential in the league.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

The main issue is that, as an observer we are really only paying attention to 1 on 1 basketball. Curry "overall" is an above average defender but if we're talking about strictly on ball defense or 1 on 1 defense then yes he is slightly below average and the data shows that. If you look at defensive iso stats curry is like in the 47th% for guards. Where he makes up for this though is his off-ball and team D. On ball D is only one aspect of defense and unless you're playing against westbrook, there's only a handful of situations that the point guard is going to be isolating 1 on 1. Ability to guard the pick and roll, denying your man, recognizing and making the right rotations are all apart of defense and even more important and you don't have to be very athletic to do so you just need high IQ. Aka Tim duncan being an elite defender despite being the most physically ungifted bigman. Curry is definitely a below average - average at best on ball defender due in part to his athleticism and size, and klay is a solid on ball defender so it makes sense for him to guard the best opposing guard.

Where curry makes up for it though is his team defense IQ.

People literally only think about on ball D when talking about defense for guards which is a huge problem. Someone like chris paul, is an elite on ball defender but then if you follow him off-ball he often loses his man and overplays the passing lanes. And the data shows where CP3 is #1 among PG's in Defensive ISO PPP but not the case for his overall defensive body of work.

But you can't play great overall team defense without being on a great defensive team. Curry definitely benefits from that.

And defense is definitely more than just on ball man defense and off ball team defense. Westbrook playing passing lanes, versatility on two positions, forcing turnovers, and defensive rebounding all play factors as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cbpo]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

But my point is that the DRPM doesn't actually calculate anything he does individually on defensive. Whatever they do to remove his teammates impacts still doesn't change the fact that the stat itself is point differential based.

It still just gives the impact of how much better/worse the TEAM defense is with Curry on the court. Which like I said before doesn't always correlate to Curry being a great individual defensive factor. It could be due to offense, runs, momentum, etc. the stat is so largely skewed on point differential, and GS averaged the largest differential in the league.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To an extent this is true but it's the only possible way to measure. Something that measures individually would be like defensive win shares or some crap. But over the course of an 82 game season it does extract his "individual" contribution. The stat actually isn't largely skewed by point differential at all lol. It's w/e though don't really care anymore. It is def by far by far the best metric for measuring defense we have today. I have said I completely agree curry is below average on ball defender but that makes up such a small part of defense and all people seem to pay attention to. Both from advanced stats and the eye test if you watch curry off the ball, he's working hard and playing good D, much better than most point guards.

Curry forces as many turnovers as westbrook all while not gambling and losing his man often like westbrook does. Westbrook is NOT a good defender, and his DRPM is negative and typically is despite thunder usually being top 6 defense. I was the biggest iverson fan yet he was in no way a good defender despite getting an insane amount of steals. Part of the reason he gets rebounds is because of this as well lol. It's like the kevin love affect on T-wolves, there was a bunch of data and videos showing how kevin love would get a ridiculous amount of rebounds because he simply wouldn't contest shots. Part of it is definitely westbrook's motor and athleticism but it def is aided by him just roaming around on D. Does westbrook have the tools to be a better defender? Obviously, but really doesn't mean anything if he's not applying them.

An example of westbrook off-ball effort - http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/8/837...-injuries-2015

He literally just completely leaves harden and stands under the basket trying to get a rebound without any care. Free 3 points giving up.

[HowDareI]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

I don't know what this argument's about lol....

Curry isn't a bad defender, but he's not great either. He's not average, but he's good.

We don't need all these crazy statistics all the time, he plays on a great defensive team and stepped up his individual d to help his team and win games. Is he Gary Payton? No...but he's not a bum either.

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

That's OKC's play style to an extent though, it was under Brook's "style" at least. He wanted Westbrook gambling and wanting him trying to force turnovers. Often the reason that he would start a strong defensive minded player to play along side him rather than Harden/Reggie in the lineup.

Same for Curry, it's easier to play it safe, and do the little things when you aren't defending the elite scoring threat, and your defense is so solid 1-4 that you can basically count on those guys to have you back as well. Curry will never have to gamble, or even worry about blasting through and around every single screen so long as his 2-4 are the most versatile perimeter defense the league currently has. I don't question that he's a good team defender, or question his consistent effort at the defensive end, but their team philosophy and personnel enhance his ability to be respectable at that end. A solid team defender on a bad defensive team doesn't have much to offer, a solid team defender on an elite defensive team gives you what Curry was last season, in a nutshell.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cbpo]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

That's OKC's play style to an extent though, it was under Brook's "style" at least. He wanted Westbrook gambling and wanting him trying to force turnovers. Often the reason that he would start a strong defensive minded player to play along side him rather than Harden/Reggie in the lineup.

Same for Curry, it's easier to play it safe, and do the little things when you aren't defending the elite scoring threat, and your defense is so solid 1-4 that you can basically count on those guys to have you back as well. Curry will never have to gamble, or even worry about blasting through and around every single screen so long as his 2-4 are the most versatile perimeter defense the league currently has. I don't question that he's a good team defender, or question his consistent effort at the defensive end, but their team philosophy and personnel enhance his ability to be respectable at that end. A solid team defender on a bad defensive team doesn't have much to offer, a solid team defender on an elite defensive team gives you what Curry was last season, in a nutshell.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's fair but I mean, if someone can force the turnovers and at the same time stay on their man that's still better. Even if it may be team philosophy some of westbrook's plays are inexcusable. I had no problem with him going for the strip in that situation but once the ball was passed back to the perimeter he literally didn't even care or try , he could've easily ran back to harden but just stayed under the basket lol. Those are the types of plays that can win or lose games.

[GisherJohn24]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

I dind't read all the reactions yet, but I will. But I will say off the bat, Melo is no way near that rating and not top 10. Prolly top 15. He used to be top 10, maybe 2k11 or even 12 or 13, but not now. Perhaps 84 or 85 MAX. He hasn't been that great the last couple of years, still doesn't play defense at all. Poor in clutch lately, athletic, can still score, but a D. Lillard from Portland is a better player overall. I think Griffin is overrated. He can't shoot, average free throws. He reminds me of a Kevin Willis with more athleticism and strength. I don't think he's top 10 though.

[CMH]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

Ugh. Really wish Melo could play with other All-Stars on his roster like he did just one season, so basketball fans can truly understand how talented he is.

Of course, the second that talented team makes it anywhere, Melo will just be the lucky guy that took a ride with the talents of others.

As if no other superstar has had that benefit. Or you know, failed like Chris Paul.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

Ugh. Really wish Melo could play with other All-Stars on his roster like he did just one season, so basketball fans can truly understand how talented he is.

Melo literally played the last 9 years of his career next to some combination of

Allen Iverson
Chauncey Billups
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler

His playoff record over that time is 22-44, and his teams have never trumped 54 regular season wins.

Of course, the second that talented team makes it anywhere, Melo will just be the lucky guy that took a ride with the talents of others.

You are right about that - if Melo "goes anywhere" it's because of the other players who won despite him. He does not play a winning style of basketball, not in the year 2015. He has had talented teams built around him for over a decade yet has minimal success to show for it.

As if no other superstar has had that benefit. Or you know, failed like Chris Paul.

Paul (last 4 years): 19-25 playoffs
Melo (last 9 years): 22-44 playoffs

KK

[DC]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

Watch your mouth with the CP3 slander Roster Boy!

[ojandpizza]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

I don't care one way or another about the Melo debate.. But let's not even try to pretend like playing along side Iverson was supposed to make things better for him, or that he ever played with a healthy Amar'e, or that Tyson Chandler is a star who even impacted the rest of those garbage teams.

The majority of his Knicks squads haven't been all that talented, and the coaching has been just as bad or worse. Melo has shown that when he's in the right situations he can defend and share the ball too, we just haven't consistently seen that from him in a long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CMH]

Re: NBA 2K16 Player Ratings - Top 10 Players

Melo literally played the last 9 years of his career next to some combination of

Allen Iverson
Chauncey Billups
Amare Stoudemire
Tyson Chandler

His playoff record over that time is 22-44, and his teams have never trumped 54 regular season wins.



You are right about that - if Melo "goes anywhere" it's because of the other players who won despite him. He does not play a winning style of basketball, not in the year 2015. He has had talented teams built around him for over a decade yet has minimal success to show for it.



Paul (last 4 years): 19-25 playoffs
Melo (last 9 years): 22-44 playoffs

KK

So you're just going to grab Paul's last four years but ignore his entire career of 2nd round and out? Okay!

That right there makes this discussion moot. Enjoy editing.

sent from my mobile device