NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

[glipher]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Pretty happy I only paid $16 for this. The fun factor is definitely there and LUT is way better than MyTeam. But, my god. Rebounding, defense, AI. Awful. Even the input lag is brutal. WHY don't my guys JUMP when I press freaking jump. It takes forever and by that time, CPU has put up the shot and scored or outrebounded me. FFS. They need to hand the keys over to the Madden guys, they at least know how to make a proper game.

[BL8001]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Yep its back to the interior defense.

There are a couple contributing factors.

This is gleaned from playing LUT.

Animation routines under the basket that take you far away from the rim. It seems like you can only jump up, if you lean the L stick towards the threat sometimes your jump will carry you almost 10 feet in an animation routine of a leap and a stumble because you lept too far. I should see that once every 140 games not 3 to 4 times per game, and only my controlled players.

Although writing that, there is symbiosis, sometimes if you leap jump your ai companion will mimic you and jump away from the rim with you, that is a particularly ugly looking animation.

Meanwhile, watching replays and grabbing screenshots it's painfully obvious the cpu defense is programmed to crash the rim more correctly. They don't prevent my layups and dunks but they sure do contest them, almost to a ridiculous level the other direction. Should all 5 cpu players be around my player who is dunking? With 4 of them leaping with me?

The 2nd big factor is my defense and how the cpu behaves. The cpu is way too dependent on finding the path of least resistance, under the rim/in the paint.

When I can lock down the cpu on the perimeter and prevent ball penetration the cpu resorts to off ball screens that free up players running into wide open lanes in the paint. I can player switch over and defend.

But why can't the cpu press the triangle button and do a step back and shoot a 12 J. How about a hesi and then bounce over for a 10 foot shot?

It's just so much easier in this game to protect everything the cpu O does from a 6 foot arc around the basket outward.
Inside that 6, maybe it's 10, foot arc the controls and animations for the users players are way too loose and your actions carry you away, not towards the rim.

The cpu knows this, so they just stand at the top of the key and bounce the ball until something opens up in the paint.

I am winning the majority of the time but the one note cpu offense is boring.

[BL8001]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Two examples of the CPU being way more active with defense around their own rim. I could post 14 of these captured screens each game I play. It's that obvious it's occurring.

[seanhazz1]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Animation routines under the basket that take you far away from the rim. It seems like you can only jump up, if you lean the L stick towards the threat sometimes your jump will carry you almost 10 feet in an animation routine of a leap and a stumble because you lept too far. I should see that once every 140 games not 3 to 4 times per game, and only my controlled players.

Although writing that, there is symbiosis, sometimes if you leap jump your ai companion will mimic you and jump away from the rim with you, that is a particularly ugly looking animation.

Meanwhile, watching replays and grabbing screenshots it's painfully obvious the cpu defense is programmed to crash the rim more correctly. They don't prevent my layups and dunks but they sure do contest them, almost to a ridiculous level the other direction. Should all 5 cpu players be around my player who is dunking? With 4 of them leaping with me?

The 2nd big factor is my defense and how the cpu behaves. The cpu is way too dependent on finding the path of least resistance, under the rim/in the paint.

When I can lock down the cpu on the perimeter and prevent ball penetration the cpu resorts to off ball screens that free up players running into wide open lanes in the paint. I can player switch over and defend.

But why can't the cpu press the triangle button and do a step back and shoot a 12 J. How about a hesi and then bounce over for a 10 foot shot?

It's just so much easier in this game to protect everything the cpu O does from a 6 foot arc around the basket outward.
Inside that 6, maybe it's 10, foot arc the controls and animations for the users players are way too loose and your actions carry you away, not towards the rim.

The cpu knows this, so they just stand at the top of the key and bounce the ball until something opens up in the paint.

I am winning the majority of the time but the one note cpu offense is boring.

What difficulty level? Are you playing zones? Man to man? Do you play close D? Without seeing or knowing your play style I can't comment fully on that, and your pic at the rim doesn't show what happened before, and can also be seen and compared nightly to captures from the real NBA, probably 10-12 times a game(nba.com). A small video would better illustrate the issue for us all.

The CPU's ability to take the path of least resistance is not limited or slanted towards the lane play as you suggest. The lanes are wide open because your D is stretched to the perimeter, providing ample drive spaceing. Against the right player or team, try stepping back off a legit shooter and see what the CPU does. He will shoot if the shooter skills/tendency are High enough, and its the best scoring option, even the bad shooters. If you are playing LUT, there is a high likely hood of confronting good shooters in challenges, which dictates your strong perimeter play.

If your defensive style is up in your face pressing, the CPU has no other recourse than to drive the lane or pass out, as a jump shot is not feasible or smart with a defender that close in game or IRL, unless you are going for the floater, trying to get fouled, or have Lebron/Curry with the ball. Likewise, if your offensive style is driving to the paint relentlessly, the CPU will adapt and send more defenders and double teams until they stop you, if they can, as irl.

The AI and controls adapt really well this year to precise user inputs. This can be countered by copying what the CPU does, running the play. I have also commented that after properly executing a play(hitting all the points), there seems to be a boost to makes, this includes quick plays like cutters, PnR, and PnP, and is not a user only observation.

As far as your interior movement(momentum) taking you away from the rim. (i'm personally not having this issue anymore), the only advice I can give is subtle stick or "dead stick" + right stick movements to create space, especially in the post, before the shot attempt, and learning to branch all of the possible the follow-up moves toward the rim, as a bump with the right force and direction WILL take you away from the rim, and alter the branching moves, as it should with true physics. You were likely slightly moving that way because your movement was in that direction BEFORE the shot went up, either through a hard bump or of your own movement, or with RT improperly added(mis timed or held) during post up. The animation you describe is ugly because IRL if you are bumped hard enough during the shot it will look similar if not exact, to the ugly animation, and I agree its at times too ugly for immersion, but the physics are legit, and my ugly post fade away shots (and some AI ones) end up being blocked on some of those occasions, something you and others are apparently not seeing (there are plenty in my archived videos) satisfactorily enough in post play.

I say it often, but, on offense, I treat some of the post moves I execute, like (Mortal Kombat) finishing moves, ...meaning, I visualize the move and the necessary buttons, then execute the combo if possible (bad D willing)regardless of the defender, but also maintain the ability to pass out of the combo move at just about any time to the next open guy.

(ex. Half circle right stick [branch 1] left stick towards basket + tap Y + RT [branch 2] + tap shoot [branch 3]+ hold shoot),

The example post move (what does it do?) take specific timing and precision to execute, with each player. With bad timing, it will look awkward just like an uncoordinated move does irl. Controlled and efficient use of the RT will succeed in opening up even more animations for you, when used with the right moves.....and yes I also agree there could be a few more post animations.

Once the player momentum is going toward the basket it is difficult for the defense to stop the drive, unless you have a monster in the paint to bump/block/contest/alter the PHYSICAL outcome with their own physicality. It appears they are using a derivative of basic physics force formulas, net force, and applied force. I have every confidence that the numbers are playing out correctly (Newton's correctly laws applied) and that we aren't used to seeing it like this as accurately represented physically (and no not all animations accurately/adequately match outcomes, but the outcomes themselves are correct) outside of space games, flight sims, racing games, or shooters. I've also stated in the past that playing each of their games in their virtual physical world helps with playing the next, the subtle controls becoming more intuitive, as the physics are mostly consistent across the games using them.

Even the "magic hook shot" can be altered with the right amount of bumping force in the right direction. Sometimes it does takes that many user defenders to stop a player, especially when bad D and spacing are present. That is why I stress off ball management in this game a lot, because some defenders are just bad on their own. When the CPU is waiting at the top for a guy to pop open, guard that other guy, or obstruct the "cutter", it definitely changes the CPU's decision point as you "wait it out". Sometimes I hold the ball 20 seconds just to make one pass to complete the play and shoot.

If you take time to watch a CPU vs. CPU game(because it doesn't have bad human inputs), gameplay looks much better than a User vs. CPU or User vs. User, I'm talking smoother animations, seamless transitions, connecting animations, proper spacing, etc., but why? That's because they (CPU vs. CPU) are programmed to play authentic Basketball, to run the plays, to exploit the mismatches, they play the game correctly most of the time (spacing, timing, angles) and certainly more than any current user is, no matter the difficulty. You rarely see the CPU turboing all over the court, changing directions awkwardly, and displaying awkward animations. This will lead you to surmise, with all else being equal, it must be user inputs causing bad "stuff", as I often say here.

Your "Inside that 6, maybe it's 10'" comment appears to be team/player specific in my experience, and is in reaction to the spacing you give or don't the CPU, and certainly in error if you play against the CPU Warriors, or any other dual threat team that can play around the rim, and shoot deep. They will light you up for just "standing there" or stepping back to cheat on the interior D, frustratingly so. I don't expect Wroten to attack me mid-range like Westbrook, because even if he is open, he doesn't shoot it well.

There ARE players in the game with step-back and mid range tendencies (Westbrook, Dirk, Curry, Leonard, etc.) and those are the ones most likely to act in the manner you desire play in and play out. Every individual player can try the moves in Live but not every player can do them at a successful rate, and its STILL a match-up dependent outcome, after that.

Lastly, for those that haven't tried, try changing playing views or playing with the sliders (those not playing LUT or play now) and giving your team a slight advantage/disadvantage as needed in the deficient areas you mentioned. The sliders provided this year are more than adequate for smoothing the edges on the court. The view change will definitely change the way you play the game in every view, in every mode, as you will see and play the court differently in every view, and you will see things in some views you won't see in others, and again that's mostly due to user input, to which some will disagree.

This game is not perfect, but fun and Arcade are the words that keep coming up. I'll state that if your approach, style, and discipline is sim, you'll get the sim you seek out of this game. If its arcade, you'll get that too. its a duality this game seems to pull off according to who you ask, which is its own proof.

Personally, I strive for a sim approach, (emulate what I see on tv) and to eliminate my arcade moments which mostly come from my frustration from failing to execute properly and then performing a cheese (relentless lane driving, chucking 3's) move. I've personally been trying to cut this down, and doing much better, so it appears as normal and controlled a pace as CPU vs. CPU appears.

[BL8001]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Great post Seanhazz.

My interior D is Rodman, Worthy and Marc Gasol.

I win the rebounding battle. No issues there. I also know to hold LT to box out which works wonders.

On the O end I have no issues because I can put up 40 vs the all star difficulty in LUT. not bragging because I bet others here can do better, but 40 is enough of a number to reach that the cpu cannot.

I can hold the cpu under 30 most of the time. My D is not bad but what I am saying is like every EA game there are things that happen on the user end and there is a different set of things that happen on the cpu end.

It's EA's philosophy. They know the human wants offense highlights in their gameplay and because the user can attack in more unorthodox ways the cpu has to warp and glom and do things that defy logic to defend.

I just would like to see the same effort on the other end. Seems like I can only get close to good defending by obtaining defensive all stars and they still do bozo things at times.

But what do we expect? The greatest minds built an AI and it was still beaten by a human. Chess. So we expect EA or any other sports game maker/dev to make sterling AI?

This is LUT which I know is a different animal. Just like I know all EA UT AI has some wacked out rules to confound and frustrate the user.

A similar example is in Fifa where I have seen heroic defensive moves by players other than the keeper to keep balls out of the goal, diving kick clears of balls about to roll over the line, headers on the line to keep aerial balls from going in. Meanwhile on the other end it's herding cats to get my defenders to even point the right direction much less cover someone.

Oh and to answer your D type question, I have tried most of them. The star focus and pressure shooters seems to do nothing. Going to zone will help a bit but the cpu can still pull my players out a lot wider then I would like. Maybe I need to go loose instead of normal, can't even imagine what tight would be if normal puts my defenders this close.

IRL last night I watched denver swing it around on charlotte and find an open man who shot a 3 while 2 hornets players recognized the threat and sprinted at the shooter. It still went in but the hustle was appreciated. To me, that was a good example of pressure shooters.

All I want is more threat awareness. As the ball gets closer to the hoop I would like to see more players coming to the hoop like the cpu does to me.

One thing I personally think most EA games suffer from is this adherence to strict formation. In all sports they reproduce in videogame form EA has them space out preferring positioning over ball/threat location, IRL players/more players are closer to the ball or puck than EA has them.

Despite all this, I keep turning the game on. It's fun.

[BL8001]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Also I am playing on baseline high cam.

Seanhazz, Let me know what cam or cams you play on.

Oh and one other quick question, I played a fair amount of 15 and have had 16 since it went on sale on PSN, question is, can EA add things in on the fly?

I ask this because last night 3 things happened I have never seen yet.
1. The cpu stepped out of bounds twice in the game
2. A free throw hit the front of the rim
3. The cpu threw it out of bounds trying to throw a pass to a player in the corner.

I just wonder if any things like this are being slipped in secretly. I think it would be amazing if they can.

[dirtypuppet]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

I gave this game a spin last night for the first time in about 1 or 2 months, played 3 offline games and 3 or 4 Pro-Am games.

I had a really good time and the updates have clearly made some solid strides. Lot's of obvious things to improve but this is most definitely an enjoyable and legitimate NBA title and deserves better press than it gets.

[SincerelYourz]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

no doubt; this game is pretty d**n good now!

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Just a couple things here....

https://vid.me/oySs

I pressed the pass button before I even got to the Bulls left horn, they have to speed up the passing man.....instead Jimmy Butlers contact canceled that input. Easily my biggest gripe right now, makes swinging the ball a chore sometimes...

Also, Jimmy Butler leaves his assignment to go cover Nikolas man all the way across court....worked in my favor here but a terrible rotation, this goes against you sometimes too...I think as these basketball games continue to evolve with movement it's going to be tougher and tougher to program defensive rotations....we see it as an issue with both games this year...

[Calvenn]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Just a couple things here....

https://vid.me/oySs

I pressed the pass button before I even got to the Bulls left horn, they have to speed up the passing man.....instead Jimmy Butlers contact canceled that input. Easily my biggest gripe right now, makes swinging the ball a chore sometimes...

Also, Jimmy Butler leaves his assignment to go cover Nikolas man all the way across court....worked in my favor here but a terrible rotation, this goes against you sometimes too...I think as these basketball games continue to evolve with movement it's going to be tougher and tougher to program defensive rotations....we see it as an issue with both games this year...

Agreed, have made the same observation in Live 16 though he headscratching rotations are present in both games as expressed. This is one area I'm working to address with my slider adjustments and I'm seeing some promise. Further testing is needed to be conclusive however I have also noticed that 2 minute ful court press defense has improved with this setup. These are all areas they should tighten in the next patch. If not, we may be looking at 17.

[nick_sr]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Why haven't they removed those ugly shots from around the basket that go in no matter unless ur playing a lut master challenge?

If o was a 2k player making the switch I would be instantly turned off by the fadeaway in live. Don't understand why that area hasn't been addressed.

Just 2 issues that really frustrate me at the moment.

[Calvenn]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

I purposely reverted to default sliders and the defense is now tighter after Synergy updates on Superstar Tip Off game (stil could use more work). TWolves playing true to life in the game and saw some other good improvements (cpu controlled
players alot more adept at diving for loose balls and saving possesions in addition to intercepting passes and challenging for steals). Whatever they are doing or is happening must be kept up, improved upon and made more consistent or maintained. Have noticed that they sometimes take a step forward one week (end game logic,etc) only to take a step back in that same area the following week. Report your results if possible for validation.

[BL8001]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

Why haven't they removed those ugly shots from around the basket that go in no matter unless ur playing a lut master challenge?

If o was a 2k player making the switch I would be instantly turned off by the fadeaway in live. Don't understand why that area hasn't been addressed.

Just 2 issues that really frustrate me at the moment.

This is awesome because it's so true. That is like a safety shot if you need points and the CPU is being...well...you know...a cheating jackass.

Except in Master challenge I missed 9 in a row to start the game, meanwhile the CPU was making audacious circus shots with me up in their grill defending.

I finally gave up and just dunked on them the rest of the game to make it out alive. The cpu let nothing else go in. I even had 3 dunks that were rejected by the rim. Have only seen that maybe once in 65 games outside of LUT master.

It really flushes the gameplay down the toilet when you enter these LUT master challenges.

[windmiller]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

is it possible to check a draft class before the season is over in dynasty mode.


It sucks in rebuilds if you don't know the draft class is good or not until the end

[seanhazz1]

Re: NBA Live 16 Available Today, Post Your Impressions Here

is it possible to check a draft class before the season is over in dynasty mode.


It sucks in rebuilds if you don't know the draft class is good or not until the end

No, its not possible. Hopefully this is one of the promised areas of revamp from the devs this next cycle.


The only pre-draft clues I've seen are when the top prospects are mentioned in a draft story in your news feed during the season. I'd like to see them develop a 'Connected Franchise' type model (online included), similar to the depth in Madden.