Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

[JoFri]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I notice that if I drive and kick it out to a open shooter. I might miss. But if I drive and kick to a open shooter. And then have to make another pass to an open shooter. The shot has a way high chance of going down even if I missed up the release a little. But like in my video on the first page. I've seen that happen. Where I see bad releases go down.

this. i'm experiencing it too [emoji1303]

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I've heard of shooters missing because they were "too wide open" and had too much time. Yes, having a close out helps you get into your zone or shooting rhythm but a wide open jumper, I mean broad daylight butt naked wide open, yes - some of these "one-off" instances do lead to misses.

You hear announcers talk about it too.

Where it's a problem in a video game is when it repeatedly happens: at this point you deserve to pay (as the defender and team). Leave Dwight Howard open on the 3, give gap to Lance Stephenson on the 3. Leaving a legitimate perimeter threat wide open however and being graced with misses is just not fitting.

The other night I faced a top team in Pro Am and the hot hand on their team won at the buzzer by 1 pt. He had 34 while the others had less than 10 a piece. My match in particular only made about 1 shot and about half of his 12 plus looks were wide open. I checked his attributes: 85+ on 3s and mid! I couldn't believe my eyes. I deserved to have at least 12 more points on my head but the game somehow arbitrarily decided to have my match ups shots clank.

I've been there in Park and Pro Am where you're blessed with wide open shots but 2k curses you with clanks. Sure, blame the rim partially:she is loyal to no one and can be very unforgiving as well as very kind by no merit of your own. Just by law of averages however: pitiful defense should pay the price at least 50% of the time when stats warrant a make.

Ball movement was very present with this team...

* Turns out he was 1 for 9 with 2 pts but I still contend that he should have put at least 12 on my head given the looks he had. Matchup is at SG.





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[LO6IX]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

FOUL!!!! You cannot use Steph Curry as an example in an argument about shooting!!! That is a clear violation!

Dude is NOT human and does not conform to the same laws of reality and physics!

Not in this case. It's shot preparation and awareness. Every shooter does it.

[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Very set with 89 three pointer . Number of passes? Are you telling me I should lose confidence in my guy and pass up open shots because the I didn't meet a criteria for number of passes ?

Picture this Jeebs me vs U. If I'm guarding you locking you down its ok if you miss 5 shots in a row because I'm locking you down . If I'm am no where near you on your midrange , three pointers , floaters and you miss 5 in a row is it fair for me to brag about locking you up then ? Meanwhile I'm hitting contested shots in your face and you're a better shooter than me .

This isn't every game . I dont even mind missing a few in a row . But missing 5-7 shots In a row is bogus. I work too damn hard on my myplayer for him to miss those and look like a D-league bench player

I totally understand what your saying. Open shot = Going in. But could you imagine a formula like that. That's what we had last year. And that's not championships basketball. The last 3-5 teams that have won. Have crazy ball movement. Not isoing or one man teams. Those days are gone. Not even Jordan was like that. The Bulls moved the ball around. I'm going to post some videos tomorrow.

last night i was 2 for 3 in the first quarter and missed all 3 thereafter. got one point i took one step in for a mid range. miss again!
most were all wide open threes in transition. if i get another look, will i take it again? to be frank, i might not. my nyk was leading the whole game and i was looking to involve my teammates. i might drive in, u never know.
seldom will we pass out with open 3 opportunity even irl, and i saw draymond did just that in the first half against the rockets 2days back. of cos, the warriors were leading then.
i think the extra passes help but i'm not 100% sure. just wanted to share it and see if it indeeds help to get the shooter in rhythm.

The 'number of passes' thing works, and I've been well aware of that for a long time. However, I don't give a damn about some mythic number if the shooter being fed has a defender that is about as inept as James Harden. If the shooter is getting looks like he's on his own practice court, you damn right he better fire. If his shot rating is high, he should be making a majority (maybe not all, but a good majority) of his shots. Some relegated game mechanism shouldn't be allowed to take control of his player and force bad shooting games, it's really just that simple. If a player on the game is having a bad shooting game, it should be because of his own actions and bad decisions throughout the course of the game, NOT when you're literally doing everything right, but the game decides it wants to flip some imaginary switch.

But that's what 2k devs are trying to show. Being wide open with a good release does not mean the ball should go in. That's not the way it works in real life.

I'll explain my when I'm not mobile anymore.

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[Caelumfang]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I totally understand what your saying. Open shot = Going in. But could you imagine a formula like that. That's what we had last year. And that's not championships basketball. The last 3-5 teams that have won. Have crazy ball movement. Not isoing or one man teams. Those days are gone. Not even Jordan was like that. The Bulls moved the ball around. I'm going to post some videos tomorrow.



But that's what 2k devs are trying to show. Being wide open with a good release does not mean the ball should go in. That's not the way it works in real life.

I'll explain my when I'm not mobile anymore.

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That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Nah, we are not requesting all open shots from wide open position or from ball movement should equal = successful make.

The NBA is playing on 12 minute quarters with more room for error. We are playing on 6 minutes online and even less time in Park: we have little chances afforded to recover and respond from open misses.

In Park and Online Play: we need the defense to pay at a higher rate than simulated NBA games. The spacing on Pro Am is such that it's hard enough for perimeter players to be successful in the paint in a half court set.

If the release is clean and the player is not cold: yes, the shooter should not be clanking repeatedly on open looks. It simply should not be happening - not in such a condensed scale for minutes played.

In Park, I'm afforded about 3 or 4 shots per game as a G and a premier guard at that meaning I handle the ball probably the most in each park game. In Pro Am I'm looking at at least 9 attempts per game +/- 3 give or take on average.

My point is: the punishment on open shots is very severe. The algorithm is not simulated well at all - it's very generic as if programmed on a lazy scale rather than a professional scale for Pro Am and Online.

Now, in Park, I have a very hard time going 0-3 on open looks... this is just shameful and appalling. I am not cold and I have the stats and experienced jumpshot to boot that should merit me the makes but the rim simply refuses to accept my shot as a make.

If the defender or team defense is legitimately disturbing my defense by various ways such as draining my energy with physical play, contesting consistently, forcing turnovers: by all means : reward that team and that defense and punish me. If however I am literally bring given oceans of space AND I and demonstrating a clean release: please reward me for my efforts! I'm not asking for greens or 100% rates but again if the circumstances support a make and so do my actions: please justify that and compel the defender and team to strip up and adjust.

0-3 on open looks with no hindrance to rhythm should warrant makes by outside scorers or anyone with 80+ shooting who demonstrate that they know their release. And the kicker? I can make half court shots in Park to win games without being hot or using park cards but next game I can go 0 for 3 from wide open? On looks that should be as easy as throwing a rock into an ocean?

It's getting to the point that so much is simply overriden by virtue of simulating off games. 2k, we are not following an NBA calendar in Park or Pro Am or Online Play - we are not following practice schedules and off days. Unless I am cold by virtue of great defensive play and sloppy offensive play: me nor my opponent should be suffering off games in these modes.

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[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

Yea man... Your tone isn't something I'd reply back to anyway. Just trying to have a simple debate. Like I said. I'll answer the other tomorrow.

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[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

I have some facts to share that address the mythic bias towards ball movement = more success. Nah, there is a report that discloses how there is such a thing as too much ball movement.

Your best chance,simply put, in the NBA is off a quick catch and shoot either in transition our out of a set. And of course: the corner 3 is that money opportunity for all teams.

I'm with you Cael

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[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/10/16/measuring-ball-and-player-movement/

There is no correlation between ball movement and offensive efficiency. Three top-10 offenses — Oklahoma City, Phoenix and Toronto — ranked in the bottom 10 in ball movement (passes per minute in half-court possessions). And five bottom-10 offenses — Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Utah, Charlotte and the Lakers — ranked in the top 10.

- Let's not forget the success the Suns 6s quick pacd offense had either. The Spurs are as unique as that Suns squad albeit still polar opposite. Curry and Korver, Kerr and Reggie Miller, all are 3pt lords but all use different means to their ends and all possess a unique shooting mastery.

This 5 pass to score mantra is hogwash and is more prevalent in high school and college when facing zone defense.

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[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I totally understand what your saying. Open shot = Going in. But could you imagine a formula like that. That's what we had last year. And that's not championships basketball. The last 3-5 teams that have won. Have crazy ball movement. Not isoing or one man teams. Those days are gone. Not even Jordan was like that. The Bulls moved the ball around. I'm going to post some videos tomorrow

Oh I 100% agree. and moving the ball has gotten my squad nearly 300 pro am wins. It's just when I'm in a rut I have a chip on my shoulder. I admit I might start jacking more shots than usual just to prove I can hit a jumper

[bottledwaterfan25]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

The 5 pass rule that keeps getting brought up has absolutely NOTHING to do with the success rate of an open jumper; it is a tip that 2k offered to help out the clueless noobs that ball hog, and don't understand the game of basketball very well. some people just don't get it. An open shot is an open shot; it does not matter if it takes 1 pass, or 19 passes to find the open shooter. When a good shooter is wide open, with a good release, shots should be falling at a higher rate than they currently are.

By the way, I am speaking from the prospective of being an avid pro-am player, as well as play now online, and myteam. With online games being much shorter than the standard 12 minute quarter games, it is crucial to capitalize on every single opening your opponent gives you. I feel as though right now those wide open opportunities are not being rewarded at a fair rate.

I'm not asking for much, I don't want every shot to fall, I'm just tired of those random games where 2k has me shooting like 2016 Kobe, when I'm really more like KD.

[EveretteWarren]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Honestly, I'm so inconsistent with shooting in Park this year and I've been getting annoyed. A lot of you might disagree or whatever, but I wouldn't mind if park was like 2k15 before Patch 3. Definetly before patch 4. I understand that you won't make every shot. But come on now, I'm missing wide open midranges (89 mid) too much. I have another guy that has a 94 and is missing wide open midranges too.

[ataman5]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I used to take shots as quickly as possible with my players if I was wide open. Now I wait a half a second and then take a shot. 'To calm my player down'. You see it happen all the time IRL.

First passing and sharing the ball will definitely increase the % of the shots made.
Second to add what you and others implied is you can either calm or chain shooting with what you do in terms of dribling combos, fake or advance shooting which i call taking one more step b4 shot which i freaking love in this game. You don't see players taking spot up shots even they are set to shoot they move either with fake, chest or foot(size-up) b4 taking shots and yes they also move even they are wide open bcs it's a rituel thing taking shots, you can think of Kg taking one more step b4 midrange etc etc.


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[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Honestly, I'm so inconsistent with shooting in Park this year and I've been getting annoyed. A lot of you might disagree or whatever, but I wouldn't mind if park was like 2k15 before Patch 3. Definetly before patch 4. I understand that you won't make every shot. But come on now, I'm missing wide open midranges (89 mid) too much. I have another guy that has a 94 and is missing wide open midranges too.

The 5 pass rule that keeps getting brought up has absolutely NOTHING to do with the success rate of an open jumper; it is a tip that 2k offered to help out the clueless noobs that ball hog, and don't understand the game of basketball very well. some people just don't get it. An open shot is an open shot; it does not matter if it takes 1 pass, or 19 passes to find the open shooter. When a good shooter is wide open, with a good release, shots should be falling at a higher rate than they currently are.

By the way, I am speaking from the prospective of being an avid pro-am player, as well as play now online, and myteam. With online games being much shorter than the standard 12 minute quarter games, it is crucial to capitalize on every single opening your opponent gives you. I feel as though right now those wide open opportunities are not being rewarded at a fair rate.

I'm not asking for much, I don't want every shot to fall, I'm just tired of those random games where 2k has me shooting like 2016 Kobe, when I'm really more like KD.

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

Let ask all of you. And anyone else that would like to answer this question.

What formula do you propose?
Open shots going in more
Open shots after one pass
Open shot after a build up
Perfect release = shot goes in
Do you have a new idea for shooting?

I really would like to see what people's answer are. Because it seems like you guys want this ball hog environment. I think the 5 pass rule is like someone said already to promote passing the ball around is more successful then getting the one shot = going in. And I understand the whole my opponent is leaving my player wide open. But like I said I've notice that if you wait a few counts. The shot will go down. Especially when wide open. Didn't get a chance to post the videos from my PS4. But I did find some videos of old games.

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=57s

I could of pulled the trigger with Thabo. But I don't. I get a even better shot. To a wide open Kyle. Swish....

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=4m32s

Now look at this shot. Quick Side Fade 3.... I've called this play in many different modes and sliders in this game. But I can't hit that shot with Kyle or any other great shooter in this game. I with you guys. I shouldn't miss this shot. My opponent has a weak basketball IQ and defense. I'm pretty sure if I waited just like the video above the shot would of gone down. But because of the situation. I was rushing.

I understand the beef here. Like I said I like the current way it is.

Edit: I really think no matter what game mode your playing. If your wide open after one pass. Don't rush to shoot the ball. I think it's the right way to go.

[Vroman]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

You missed those shots because Protected shot animation triggered instead his natural jumpshot form. It happens when player catch and shoot a pass going from his weak hand side and shot% of that animation is not good.