Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

Toupal - to be clear, I'm not saying make the whole game easier across the board and that's it. The game still has to present an interesting challenge to those who already know how to play, the game's core audience. For the most part, Madden has been recently doing this, though there are always areas where it can improve.

In the case of Skills Trainer, it's not like the thing is teaching something completely removed from real football; it's teaching real football things in there and making them applicable to how to play Madden. I'm all for options, as well, and I think Tiburon is starting to follow this line of thinking; most of the recently-added core gameplay assist options are all optional - Heat Seeker, the tackle cone, Ball Hawk, etc.

In places like Connected Franchise mode, however, the game needs to add both more depth - to satisfy and challenge hardcore players - and more accessibility. A big problem with CFM from EA's perspective is that new players try the mode are intimidated by both CFM's breadth of options and the steep expectations upon the user with respect to the institutional knowledge required to successfully run an NFL team and/or a franchise game save in general. These user then never even finish a single season to engage with the most polished components of the mode like the draft because the game doesn't instruct them how to properly engage with what depth the mode does have, and then hardcore players are also upset because the depth that is there isn't enough to satisfy them.

Madden is a game of many masters - new players, veteran players, casuals, ranked / tournament players, the "sim" crowd, franchise mode addicts, MUT-heads / Draft Champions players - and it's hard to cater to all of these crowds simultaneously, particularly on a one-year cycle. For the most part I think Tiburon is doing a good job of pushing the authenticity and depth of the game forward while presenting said gameplay in a manner with which a new player may easily engage. There's obviously still work to do, however, but they have to do it in a manner that's digestible to as much of their audience as possible.

[Toupal]

Re: Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

Toupal - to be clear, I'm not saying make the whole game easier across the board and that's it. The game still has to present an interesting challenge to those who already know how to play, the game's core audience. For the most part, Madden has been recently doing this, though there are always areas where it can improve.

In the case of Skills Trainer, it's not like the thing is teaching something completely removed from real football; it's teaching real football things in there and making them applicable to how to play Madden. I'm all for options, as well, and I think Tiburon is starting to follow this line of thinking; most of the recently-added core gameplay assist options are all optional - Heat Seeker, the tackle cone, Ball Hawk, etc.

In places like Connected Franchise mode, however, the game needs to add both more depth - to satisfy and challenge hardcore players - and more accessibility. A big problem with CFM from EA's perspective is that new players try the mode are intimidated by both CFM's breadth of options and the steep expectations upon the user with respect to the institutional knowledge required to successfully run an NFL team and/or a franchise game save in general. These user then never even finish a single season to engage with the most polished components of the mode like the draft because the game doesn't instruct them how to properly engage with what depth the mode does have, and then hardcore players are also upset because the depth that is there isn't enough to satisfy them.

Madden is a game of many masters - new players, veteran players, casuals, ranked / tournament players, the "sim" crowd, franchise mode addicts, MUT-heads / Draft Champions players - and it's hard to cater to all of these crowds simultaneously, particularly on a one-year cycle. For the most part I think Tiburon is doing a good job of pushing the authenticity and depth of the game forward while presenting said gameplay in a manner with which a new player may easily engage. There's obviously still work to do, however, but they have to do it in a manner that's digestible to as much of their audience as possible.

Well said.
Just to throw on to the skill trainer, I liked back in the ps2 days, when madden had training camps. So that way you had somewhat of a skill trainer, and yet it also added depth to the game in franchise mode, because based on how you did, determined how your player would improve.

[X_isBringingSexyBack]

Re: Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

I am going to focus on this because it's the only part of your post that is relevant to the topic of this thread. The airing of grievances with Madden in the general case is off-topic so I am not going to respond to that.

That's fine, but I only responded to what you did in fact write.

I also don't see how what I said can be honestly dismissed as just an "airing of grievances". You mentioned some aspects of the game pertaining to progress which objectively don't hold up well to the scrutiny of visual evidence, I simply mentioned that reality and referenced the existence of visual evidence.

I don't know how to put this delicately - you're simply wrong. Skills Trainer is important and innovative. That Madden NFL is the only game attempting anything like it at this point (as far as I know) is significant.

I feel you're wrong also. It's a basic afterthought feature that's not innovative, and I highly doubt many people use it casual or otherwise. I'd love to see their data on it to be disproven.

You're also wrong that Madden is the only game doing it. You may want to check out PES, it has one too. I also remember Backbreaker having one. Farther back, I remember Blitz The League having one. This isn't new.

The biggest problem that simulation sports games have on a mass scale is barrier to entry. You have plenty of people who try to play these games who don't understand the sport the game is attempting to represent. They don't know what "hike" means, much less what the proper blocking technique on zone blocking run is. The game developer has a responsibility to teach the user not only the mechanics of the game in question, but also how to effectively use those mechanics to overcome challenges and accomplish feats in the game, and Madden NFL is (again, as far as I know) the only simulation sports game actively engaging this duty.

For example, I don't have an intricate knowledge of basketball, soccer, baseball, or hockey like I do football. As such, even though I recognize that NBA 2K / FIFA / MLB The Show / NHL are doing great things individually as games, I can't begin to enjoy these games because I don't know how to play them and the game makes no effort to teach me how to play. Reasonable minds can beg to differ about how much fault is mine vs the game dev's with respect to how much knowledge I should have brought to the table before starting the game in a demo setting, but the end result is the same - I don't buy the game because I don't understand it and therefore I don't enjoy it.

Madden so obviously going out of its way to teach the mechanics and strategies of football to those who don't have the slightest clue what is otherwise going on is important because it grows the audience of the game and it increases the quality of online competition, which is a net positive for the game's core online modes of Ultimate Team and Connected Franchise. Skills Trainer will also benefit tournament players as the game continues to drive towards authenticity in gameplay and the various exploits and nano blitzes stop working. Heck, the drills are useful even to me, the simulation-style player, because I enjoy partaking in the relevantly devised drills; "practice using Smash against Cover 2", "learn how to use the Curl Flats concept", "how to use the Mills concept against Cover 4", etc. etc.

While Madden Skills Trainer is probably of no value to many people on this board, apparently you included and that's fine, it is objectively important to improving the quality of the game and community long-term. It is perhaps the singular feature in simulation sports games where Madden is far ahead of its peers and leading by example, an example which other sports games absolutely should follow.

It's good that you're now prefacing it with as "far as you know", you seemed rather certain in the original post

My disagreement isn't about its usefulness, it has some obviously, and we agree on that extent. I just don't think it's worthy of the level of praise you've assigned to it, that's all. But you're entitled to you're opinion, I think it's okay for me to disagree?

I feel like the things Madden gets praise for now--things like this--are things that wouldn't have even been discussed much if at all during the golden age of football gaming because they would've been seen as the miniscule things they are when compared to all the innovation we were getting during that time.

[Ueauvan]

Re: Madden NFL 16: A Noob's Perspective

as a Brit who has watched the game since the late 70s when it appeared on TV here, i want more immersion. I dont want simple, part of the attraction of the game is strategy and the interaction between coach and players.

Every Superbowl we get the Noobs guide ..., every season we get the Noob section ...

I have no problem trying to increase player base, but they have to realise that there are some sophisticated fans over here after 35 years plus of coverage. The deal with a certain TV meant that playoffs were only available to that station and black out on Games Plus (which i have). highlights were either 1-2 days later and cut down to 1hr. If i have the tv subscription and the Game Plus how about watch what you want? They havent thought it through for Europe yet and they need to get smarter for fan development in both coverage and extras like madden and other tie ins.

we have soccer manager games that i believe are quite in depth, id like that to be the same for the only franchised NFL game ... if only they had similar developers

[ggsimmonds]

I appreciate the article. Sometimes we here at OS take something of an elitist anti-casual/noob position and I don't think it is fair.

Madden's tutorials are superb, and I don't think it gets the credit it deserves for that. Football (of the American variety) is arguably the deepest most complicated of all major sports so it can definitely seem overwhelming at times.