EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

[HenryClay1844]

Remember kids, greed trumps fun every time.

[roadman]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

As for a business losing money over lawsuits, depends on the size of the lawsuit, but some jobs could be at stake, which is never a good thing for anyone.

Plus, it takes two to tangle for a business partnership to develop, so, the NFL is just as much to blame as anyone else.

I want competition as much as the next person does, but until the NFL abandons their business model, things will be status quo for awhile.

[Junior Moe]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

As long as one game has access to the shield I doubt this happens. Casuals will take the game that has the real stadiums and replicated unis. The generic game won't be authentic enough to get their attention.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this as a positive at all. It makes it riskier to do generic games for fear of being sued over likenesses, if anything. Safer to just stick to professional leagues and real players you can get a license for and pay them accordingly.

I think that a licensed game with clearly generic rosters could work, provided it has authentic schools, teams, arenas and stadiums. NFL is out of the question, though. Look at how safe 2K was with college players and non signed legends in NBA 2K. The college players were generic as heck, but they looked real. Some even looked like spliced, younger hybrids of NBA players. Their names and numbers were generic as could be. But we had the real teams and courts and a collegiate atmosphere. I think that's what most people want. The nonlicensed players on the classic teams are given numbers 99, 98 or 97. Then are named "John Smith". In both cases it would be hard to sue for likeness. Now is a game like that a worthy investment? That's the question. I think NCAA Football would be; NCAA Basketball, not sure.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

I think that a licensed game with clearly generic rosters could work, provided it has authentic schools, teams, arenas and stadiums. NFL is out of the question, though. Look at how safe 2K was with college players and non signed legends in NBA 2K. The college players were generic as heck, but they looked real. Some even looked like spliced, younger hybrids of NBA players. Their names and numbers were generic as could be. But we had the real teams and courts and a collegiate atmosphere. I think that's what most people want. The nonlicensed players on the classic teams are given numbers 99, 98 or 97. Then are named "John Smith". In both cases it would be hard to sue for likeness. Now is a game like that a worthy investment? That's the question. I think NCAA Football would be; NCAA Basketball, not sure.

That's the question, and I'm not sure I think even NCAA football would be. EA used the foundation of madden for their college game and truth is that it didn't sell tons of copies. A stand alone college game that had to pay for all its development cost with just its own sales might not be a worthy investment. When you add the chance of getting sued over likenesses that can be anything from jersey numbers, to height/weight, to some other vague similarity and it gets really dicey.

[Hooe]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

You can complain about the people doing the suing all you want but this is all on EA and their exclusive license.

EA had used the likenesses of historic players as far back as Madden NFL 2001, likely earlier. In fact, someone can spot check me on this but I don't recall any recent Madden game (from Madden NFL 06 on, when the exclusive license kicked in) even having historic teams in the game for retired players to sue about. Finally, since retired players are not members of the NFL Players Association, they are free to license their likeness to anyone they choose.

This literally has nothing to do with the exclusive license.

[tril]

I think that a licensed game with clearly generic rosters could work, provided it has authentic schools, teams, arenas and stadiums. NFL is out of the question, though. Look at how safe 2K was with college players and non signed legends in NBA 2K. The college players were generic as heck, but they looked real. Some even looked like spliced, younger hybrids of NBA players. Their names and numbers were generic as could be. But we had the real teams and courts and a collegiate atmosphere. I think that's what most people want. The nonlicensed players on the classic teams are given numbers 99, 98 or 97. Then are named "John Smith". In both cases it would be hard to sue for likeness. Now is a game like that a worthy investment? That's the question. I think NCAA Football would be; NCAA Basketball, not sure.

you're right. I think on the college level, generic rosters could work as long as teh schools are authentic.

CH2k8 shipped with generic rosters, and that didnt diminish the game one bit.
College football might be different, becasue of a biger more hardcore fan base. But again I think as long as the schools and conferences are authentic then it wont make a difference.

The beauty of college sports game legacy modes are that the player turn over rate is high. ts 4 years years so rosters become generic quickly anyways.
In addition, the EA college football title and 2k College hoops had more than solid gameplay and a robust recruiting mode, which keeps the game fresh.

just give users the option to edit and customize rosters.
with the popularity of college sports on teh increase, these games will sell.

[Hooe]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

CH2k8 shipped with generic rosters, and that didnt diminish the game one bit.

In the eyes of the case law established in these recent court cases involving EA Sports NCAA Football, College Hoops 2K8 absolutely did not ship with generic rosters, rather it shipped with the likenesses of some 3600 players on disc (rough estimate of 12 players per team * 300 teams).

According to the precedent established by these cases, the white UNC PF #50 who was 6'9" and 250 lbs with great ratings in the game was the likeness of Tyler Hansbrough. To that end, should former college players sue Take 2 Interactive about their likenesses appearing in College Hoops 2K games, they'd win.

Your point about roster turnover rate in college sports is valid, especially for career-mode oriented customers, but the games still leveraged the star power of the most prominent college athletes to sell copies, and without that any truly generic college game would struggle in ways that NCAA Football and College Hoops 2K did not. I also think that, given the graphical expectations of console video games nowadays, a generic college game would struggle a bit, especially as the pro counterparts are including real-life faces for every player, and in some cases tattoos as well.

[Junior Moe]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

That's the question, and I'm not sure I think even NCAA football would be. EA used the foundation of madden for their college game and truth is that it didn't sell tons of copies. A stand alone college game that had to pay for all its development cost with just its own sales might not be a worthy investment. When you add the chance of getting sued over likenesses that can be anything from jersey numbers, to height/weight, to some other vague similarity and it gets really dicey.

That's why I think that it's EA or bust with regards to college football. Same with 2K and NCAA Basketball. They are the only ones with the resources, and an engine already. Plus, they only recently ended the NCAA series. The NCAA Football series sold 3 to 4 million copies, IIRC (not sure though). So there's a market there. Especially now with the playoffs. As far as lawsuits, I would imagine that they could include a disclaimer like "none of the players in this game are meant to represent any current or former collegiate athlete". And actually make them not. Like how Madden was before they got the NFLPA license.

[Junior Moe]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

you're right. I think on the college level, generic rosters could work as long as teh schools are authentic.

CH2k8 shipped with generic rosters, and that didnt diminish the game one bit.
College football might be different, becasue of a biger more hardcore fan base. But again I think as long as the schools and conferences are authentic then it wont make a difference.

The beauty of college sports game legacy modes are that the player turn over rate is high. ts 4 years years so rosters become generic quickly anyways.
In addition, the EA college football title and 2k College hoops had more than solid gameplay and a robust recruiting mode, which keeps the game fresh.

just give users the option to edit and customize rosters.
with the popularity of college sports on teh increase, these games will sell.

Yep. But they would have to be generic. Like totally! Not facsimiles or anything cute. For Legacy people like myself it's not a problem. But I won't lie, I did like having the "real" players in CH2K and NCAA Football and drafting them into NBA2K and Madden, respectively. The lawsuits killed that and I do believe that the collegiate players are being exploited in a sense. But that's neither here nor there. I'm fine with not being able to edit the default stock players. As long as my Bulldogs play a pro style offense and run the rock I don't care that the RB is an 81 overall White guy named Caleb Brooks instead of Nick Chubb. Like you said, both games had great gameplay (and better features to me) and both engines (Madden and NBA 2K) have only gotten better. I think NCAA Football would be a smash with Madden's engine tuned and that collegiate atmosphere with our appetite for college football. CH2K with the latest 2K engine would be special. But would it sell enough to justify the costs? I don't know. Not unless it was packed with micro-transactions.

[whitey7886]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

This my be a silly idea or something people wouldn't want. If the game must have real people in it then what if EA made 2017 with the kids drafted this year. Pay them to be in the game and make everyone else generic? Or do 2 years ago so you have kids from 2015 and 2016 in the game. Then allow you to cutom everything. In this case you would have real players and the game. This is just an idea that popped into my head. The downfall is you have last years team but you can always sim and then have them drafted but you would also be able to update the rest of the players if you wanted. HEck at this point I would buy it to have a new NCAA game.

[Toupal]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

This my be a silly idea or something people wouldn't want. If the game must have real people in it then what if EA made 2017 with the kids drafted this year. Pay them to be in the game and make everyone else generic? Or do 2 years ago so you have kids from 2015 and 2016 in the game. Then allow you to cutom everything. In this case you would have real players and the game. This is just an idea that popped into my head. The downfall is you have last years team but you can always sim and then have them drafted but you would also be able to update the rest of the players if you wanted. HEck at this point I would buy it to have a new NCAA game.

In addition to that, they could used generic rosters, but throw in current players from the NFLPA, or retired players that consent to them using their likeness.

So for example Michigan:
Use generic rosters, but fill in guys like Charles Woodson, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Hart, Tim Biankabatuka, Denard Robinson, etc... Etc...

[BSchwartz07]

the beginning of the end for sports titles with real rosters.
Im sure the future contracts for player likeliness in video games will be much higher.
Everything with professional sports and athletes is trending higher when it comes to cost. So the gaming industry will be no different.

With that in mind its time for companies like 2k to get back into making sports titles with generic customizable rosters. generic sports titles that creates their own league history as you play might be a huge draw.

Not at all. Current players will never be an issue b/c the players union can negotiate a deal, no different than jersey sales. It is the beginning of the end of anyone who isn't in the union. Honestly, outside of 2K's historic mode a few years ago (which they did a VERY good job with), I've never really been a fan of historic players. In Madden I've always laughed at how intent they are at getting helmets and accessories to match some player from 1975, but have none of the things you see on the field in 2015...

[NFCastle]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

This is why we can't have nice things...

[noplace]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

You can complain about the people doing the suing all you want but this is all on EA and their exclusive license.

You all know damn well that if another company put out a football game which cloned the NFL teams and players the way EA does with these retired and college players kEA would be the ones pitching a fit and suing them into oblivion.

The anti-competitive monopoly EA has with Madden kills any possible market for these players to sell their likeness in video games and then EA has the audacity to rip them off on top of that.

I love playing Madden but I do hope EA gets hit hard on this one too. They deserve it.

Spot on, EA added those legend players for one reason only and that was to completely kill 2K from doing anything remotely close to pro football. Needless to say it backfired.

[aholbert32]

Re: EA/Madden Likeness Lawsuit Moving Forward...

Spot on, EA added those legend players for one reason only and that was to completely kill 2K from doing anything remotely close to pro football. Needless to say it backfired.

I'm confused.

The lawsuit relates to the use of legends likenesses from 2001 to 2009.

2001.

The NFL/EA license started in 2004. APF came out in 2007.

So you are claiming that back in 2001, EA thought "Lets make historic rosters with no names to kill a game that 2k may make 6 years from now"?

Really?