Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

[mrprice33]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

I think it takes away from the simulation to see players unrealistically launching themselves at guys that have been ruled down.

That's just me.

[goillini03]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Yes, I care. I want the game to be as sim as possible. If it is illegal, it should draw a flag. If Burfuct wants to lauch himself at a defenseless player in a real game, I want it in Madden.

There should be flags when it does happen, and there should be players have have tendencies to do these dumb things that cost your team in spots. These after the runner is down hits happen more often that most people think. Especially when the QB is out of the pocket.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

I think it takes away from the simulation to see players unrealistically launching themselves at guys that have been ruled down.

That's just me.

Absolutely agree. I think the clean up hits were over done. Glad to see them added, but they need to be tuned more realistically.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Absolutely agree. I think the clean up hits were over done. Glad to see them added, but they need to be tuned more realistically.

How would you tone down clean up hits? I think going low is a great animation; why would a CB go high on Gronk or other big receiver like a Megatron?

I believe the clean up hits wouldn't look all that bad, if you think they look bad, if the reciever reacted more realistically to a hit, to begin with..

[bigd51]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Absolutely agree. I think the clean up hits were over done. Glad to see them added, but they need to be tuned more realistically.

It really comes down to the poorly done player interactions and physics at this point.

Players glyde, flicker, and fly around the field all the time in muddled messes that more closely resembles a high res game of Electric Football being played by a bunch of Push Puppets. They'll need to get their physics engine under control before they can control illegal hits.

Besides, my immersion is broken on an every other play basis anyway, and these hits aren't even close to being a reason why.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

How would you tone down clean up hits? I think going low is a great animation; why would a CB go high on Gronk or other big receiver like a Megatron?

I believe the clean up hits wouldn't look all that bad, if you think they look bad, if the reciever reacted more realistically to a hit, to begin with..

By overdone I meant they were late and illegal at times. They added them for the sake of having them, but they weren't implemented realistically in alot of circumstances that I've noticed while playing.

The stuff where the players were still up and trying to get free, I agree, looked pretty good.

[roadman]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Eh, I can take it or leave it.

It's been mostly leave it when more than a few years ago the NFL looks over some or all of the tackling.(Chase might be able to confirm or deny that) I think that is why we don't see helmet popping hits anymore.

Plus, the league has come down on the concussion protocol and changed some of the rules.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

By overdone I meant they were late and illegal at times. They added them for the sake of having them, but they weren't implemented realistically in alot of circumstances that I've noticed while playing.

The stuff where the players were still up and trying to get free, I agree, looked pretty good.

Now that you have cleared up what was meant by "toning" down the clean up hits, I can agree we could do without the late hits, just as long as it doesn't effect the low hits and gang tackles prior to a play being whistled dead.

I would like tackles to be determined more by player size - thus a 5'11" CB weighing about 185, isn't going to go high on a receiver who may be 6'5" and 245lbs, for example; but I do believe it may get a little too in depth to create such an exact tackle system because there are players, who, while even being smaller than their opponent, still can deliver big hits...Angles/positioning means a lot on how a player attempts to take down an opponent.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Now that you have cleared up what was meant by "toning" down the clean up hits, I can agree we could do without the late hits, just as long as it doesn't effect the low hits and gang tackles prior to a play being whistled dead.

I would like tackles to be determined more by player size - thus a 5'11" CB weighing about 185, isn't going to go high on a receiver who may be 6'5" and 245lbs, for example; but I do believe it may get a little too in depth to create such an exact tackle system because there are players, who, while even being smaller than their opponent, still can deliver big hits...Angles/positioning means a lot on how a player attempts to take down an opponent.

Totally agree. There needs to be a marriage between the ratings and the physics. There should be some wiggle room for anomalies every now again. Crazy stuff we don't expect does happen, but I think most of the time we should get the realistic outcomes that we expect.

I'd like to see the hitstick go high, or low make a comeback. Actually you know what, I think the hitstick should go. I feel we should be beyond that. I think we should be able to select what type of tackle we're going for(high/low/wrap-up(safer)/aggressive(flying tackle and such), then have the angle and speed depict what type of hit it is.

[Ampking101]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

If the tackling engine was tied to injuries I might care but it seems very much now that injuries rely on a dice roll and the injury gets randomized. The fact that I can see the slightest wrap up tackle cause a Ruptured Disk but I can see a huge (and sometimes questionable) hit and the player just jumps right up after like nothing happened when one of the players would at best have a take a couple plays off after something like that, not to mention that where they get hit doesn't seem to matter where injuries are concerned either, I've seen incidental "helmet to helmet" hits in the game (which was mostly due to a diving player hitting a player being tackled) amount to a bruised sternum when it clearly would have been a concussion or neck injury. It is utterly unrealistic and completely pulls me out of the game when I see an occurrence like that.

I know the NFL wants to tone down big hits and wants to separate things like concussions and injuries being tied to those big hits (and I would venture that if they could have their way completely that injuries would be completely removed from madden).

So when I see a hit like the one in the article, I don't even think twice about it. There are no consequences on either side (you know it won't increase the likelyhood of an injury to the ball carrier or the defender) and there certainly is no benefit to having it in the game except for it being something you would see a dirty player do in the NFL. At this point I would rather just cut out big or questionable hits altogether and make every tackle a wrap up tackle because at this point seeing a player either get or deliver a leveling hit and then brush it off like any other wrap up tackle just screams "video game" and pulls me out of the game.

There is a reason the Antonio Brown and Vontaze Burfict hit was so controversial and widely discussed, that is something that could never happen in Madden (even though you can see players connect in a similar manner) but it does happen in the NFL more often than we like to admit. I also understand why the NFL would want to pull away from that image (especially with all the recent early retirements and the result of the CTE discussions) and I am glad that NFL Blitz style hits are gone, it still doesn't change the fact that there is no weight to hits like in the article.

If you are going to program the game to allow hits like this and you are going to talk about adding penalties for it to make it realistic then you NEED to make it realistic with injuries and the consequences tied to those kinds of hits. You can't pick and choose what is realistic and what isn't and thus is also the perfect time to discuss adding a system for player suspensions in the game (which has happened a lot as of late and a lot of Franchise commissioners would like a feature like this for players who break rules) which I know will never see its way into the game even though it is realistic. I'm really all for making the game more true to life, however if you are going to do so, you need to do it completely and not in half measures.

[Junior Moe]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

I hate to say it but I really don't. I don't want NFL Blitz or anything, but some big, occasionally crushing, hits are good to me. I mean, it's football. I get the player safety aspect but it's also a game. I watch footage from the old NFL days on NFL network and i cant lie, sometimes i wanna crank Madden and bust some heads after watching those old Steeler and Raider defenses. Maybe give us a slider so that we may tweak it to our liking.

[half-fast]

I can agree with most of the post, but it's almost as if you're saying that physics-based is not the way to go because it looks bad, as if they've "completed" improving it. It will get better every year. EA FIFA(soccer wasnt mentioned, erroneously) went through an odd year or two when they were developing their new contact engine. I mean, its far from perfect still, ridiculous animations happen, but it looks pretty good in the overall, so much so that I, a regular soccer fan can enjoy the tackles.

Ive been wanting companies to get rid of animations for years. Theyre holding graphical fidelity up, but hold down the realism of the game. Eventually, everything all contact in any sports game needs to be fully dynamic and physics based - its the only way of the future. Id be willing to keep graphics the way they are now, and have EA, 2K, SCEA and the like only work on physics and AI. I'm so done with canned animations and limited outcomes.

As for leaving out the dangerous plays? I think if it's in the game, we should see it in the simulation representation. There's only a matter of time before games get so good, that youll be playing a "safe" version of your game, that has all kinds of dynamic, realistic, surprising and regular outcomes that you could ask for, but you'll be watching hockey one day and think, "Why wasnt that high-stick and injury I saw in the the real game in the video game?". Sadly, fewer injuries and dangerous plays = few outcomes, and is not realistic.

[mrprice33]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

Not to speak for the author, but I think the issue highlighted via the embedded video is the late cleanup hits that come well after the whistle.

[roadman]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

My comment was directed at people wanting more big hits.

EA needs to clean up the physics system.

[mrprice33]

Re: Do You Care About Dangerous Hits in Madden?

I can agree with most of the post, but it's almost as if you're saying that physics-based is not the way to go because it looks bad, as if they've "completed" improving it. It will get better every year. EA FIFA(soccer wasnt mentioned, erroneously) went through an odd year or two when they were developing their new contact engine. I mean, its far from perfect still, ridiculous animations happen, but it looks pretty good in the overall, so much so that I, a regular soccer fan can enjoy the tackles.

Ive been wanting companies to get rid of animations for years. Theyre holding graphical fidelity up, but hold down the realism of the game. Eventually, everything all contact in any sports game needs to be fully dynamic and physics based - its the only way of the future. Id be willing to keep graphics the way they are now, and have EA, 2K, SCEA and the like only work on physics and AI. I'm so done with canned animations and limited outcomes.

As for leaving out the dangerous plays? I think if it's in the game, we should see it in the simulation representation. There's only a matter of time before games get so good, that youll be playing a "safe" version of your game, that has all kinds of dynamic, realistic, surprising and regular outcomes that you could ask for, but you'll be watching hockey one day and think, "Why wasnt that high-stick and injury I saw in the the real game in the video game?". Sadly, fewer injuries and dangerous plays = few outcomes, and is not realistic.

I don't see how you can get rid of animations completely in any game. Even Backbreaker limited its physics implementation to collisions. Players still have to run, throw, attempt to catch, swat, etc. You need animations for all that stuff.