Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

This is a line of thinking I can never understand. We have devs saying they want to make the most realistic sim game possible, then when it comes to looking realistic and players wearing what you see on Sunday's we get "well that's not important bc only X amount of people care"

Because they only have nine to twelve months to build a game (depending on a number of factors) and they logically have to prioritize their man-hours to where they can satisfy the greatest percentage of their customer base. They want to ensure they are getting the most bang for their development dollars.

Unfortunately for equipment obsessives, the presence of mouthpieces doesn't even register on the bang-for-buck scale compared to issues in core gameplay and modes.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Because they only have nine to twelve months to build a game (depending on a number of factors) and they logically have to prioritize their man-hours to where they can satisfy the greatest percentage of their customer base. They want to ensure they are getting the most bang for their development dollars.

Unfortunately for equipment obsessives, the presence of mouthpieces doesn't even register on the bang-for-buck scale compared to issues in core gameplay and modes.

For heavens sake the "equipment obsessed" people in this forum are NOT clamoring for mouthpieces or sleeves or gloves or cleats or knee braces OVER gap play, true pocket formation, formation subs, tiered play calling, etc. This has really became a very tired excuse. Ask the devs themselves equipment guys do not work on game play and vice versa, I assume you being a software developer yourself know that.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

This is a line of thinking I can never understand. We have devs saying they want to make the most realistic sim game possible, then when it comes to looking realistic and players wearing what you see on Sunday's we get "well that's not important bc only X amount of people care"

Edit: I know mrprice isn't a dev but he's spent over 40 hours playing the game and interacting with them so I assume he has more insight into the way they think than I do

The key word here is "possible." All development is triage. Never forget.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

For heavens sake none of the "equipment obsessed" people are this forum are clamoring for mouthpieces or sleeves or gloves or cleats or knee braces OVER gap play, true pocket formation, formation subs, tiered play calling, etc. This has really became a very tired excuse. Ask the devs themselves equipment guys do not work on game play and vice versa, I assume you being a software developer yourself know that.

Sure, but live mouthpieces, as one example, certainly affects gameplay if the physics rendering prevents something else from happening (such as a new AI routine) or puts them over their render budget (the amount of processing power being used to create a frame) which can introduce slowdown.

And you and I both know that if the mouthpiece was just stuck there while the player's head moved and talked we'd all make fun of it.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

The truth is they build the game THEY want to make. If enough people make enough noise they might look into it.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

The truth is they build the game THEY want to make. If enough people make enough noise they might look into it.

Well yeah, they are the ones making it, no? They have to make decisions, prioritize things, etc. When we have 8 people at a community event who can't agree on what's important, I can't imagine having to do it for a few million.

[MajorSupreme]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Because they only have nine to twelve months to build a game (depending on a number of factors) and they logically have to prioritize their man-hours to where they can satisfy the greatest percentage of their customer base. They want to ensure they are getting the most bang for their development dollars.

Unfortunately for equipment obsessives, the presence of mouthpieces doesn't even register on the bang-for-buck scale compared to issues in core gameplay and modes.

Ten months was the last time table I heard. So, we're talking less than a year to take what they just finished in August and make something relatively new to show off around the following June. I will never view it as an easy task, so I can understand when things like this don't make it in, but revamped defense does.

But to "things like this." We're talking about mouthpieces. Not jersey discoloration, or helmets from 80s, or anything really game-breaking. This is something I'd estimate that upwards of 85% (I'm really thing high 90ish%) of all Madden consumers (us sim crowd guys, MUT, Ranked players, casuals, etc.) do not even notice over the course of months playing the game. Same goes for the single arm thing. It's an immersion factor, I agree with that, I'm all for immersion. But if receiving actual gap assignments and increasing overall football strategy is an option and uniform accessories suffer because big things are being added, that's gucci. They are lower-tier priorities.

Now don't mistake for saying what you want is doesn't matter, I'm not discounting anyone who is an avid proclaimer for this, I applaud it and hope it gets in as well. I just don't see the need to be fiery about it. And it's worse on twitter, I'll never agree with calling at least these developers on EA Sports Madden NFL lazy. Now the boys over at EA general, well... haha

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

The truth is they build the game THEY want to make. If enough people make enough noise they might look into it.

Sage I'd argue that it's not the game the devs want to build but rather the game the suits want them to build. Even going back to the Ian days it seemed like he really cared about making a true to life sim game but as the years went on he was just beat into submission by what the suits thought was best.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Well yeah, they are the ones making it, no? They have to make decisions, prioritize things, etc. When we have 8 people at a community event who can't agree on what's important, I can't imagine having to do it for a few million.

If realism and authenticity is the focus, everyone should be in agreement. That hasn't always been the focus which is why I say they were making the game they wanted to make. It's good to see them trying to get there though.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Sage I'd argue that it's not the game the devs want to build but rather the game the suits want them to build. Even going back to the Ian days it seemed like he really cared about making a true to life sim game but as the years went on he was just beat into submission by what the suits thought was best.

The devs definitely have to do more compromising than they should. I don't envy their position, but it's one their publisher put them in...

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Ten months was the last time table I heard. So, we're talking less than a year to take what they just finished in August and make something relatively new to show off around the following June. I will never view it as an easy task, so I can understand when things like this don't make it in, but revamped defense does.

But to "things like this." We're talking about mouthpieces. Not jersey discoloration, or helmets from 80s, or anything really game-breaking. This is something I'd estimate that upwards of 85% (I'm really thing high 90ish%) of all Madden consumers (us sim crowd guys, MUT, Ranked players, casuals, etc.) do not even notice over the course of months playing the game. Same goes for the single arm thing. It's an immersion factor, I agree with that, I'm all for immersion. But if receiving actual gap assignments and increasing overall football strategy is an option and uniform accessories suffer because big things are being added, that's gucci. They are lower-tier priorities.

Now don't mistake for saying what you want is doesn't matter, I'm not discounting anyone who is an avid proclaimer for this, I applaud it and hope it gets in as well. I just don't see the need to be fiery about it. And it's worse on twitter, I'll never agree with calling at least these developers on EA Sports Madden NFL lazy. Now the boys over at EA general, well... haha

I forget exactly where I heard it, but the basic gist is this:

Late June (about 60 days from ship)-Finalize current year's game, send to QA for final bugtesting/approval.

*Somewhere in here the team is split, with some going to work on the next year's game, some staying to work on content and patches, vacations, etc.

Late July (about 30 days from ship)-Send finalized code to MS/Sony for certification, get to work on day 1 patch.

Late August- Day 1 patch goes out, more staff trickles to next year's game.

Next year's game starts pre-production- decisions are made as to which features will make the cut, what the focus is for the title, assignments are given, etc.

*Somewhere in here production starts in earnest, early prototyping, implementation, etc for the next year. The game is essentially broken at this point.

October-ish- Patch 2 hits, small team left on current-year, most on next year's game.

November- Prototyping done, final decisions are made as to what will be in at launch.

December-May- Development of features, tuning, etc. For Madden, community events happen throughout this process, feedback influences further tuning, etc.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

If realism and authenticity is the focus, everyone should be in agreement. That hasn't always been the focus which is why I say they were making the game they wanted to make. It's good to see them trying to get there though.

Okay. Sit in a room with a handful a people and see how many disagree about what's "real" and "authentic."

We debated for a few hours on icing the kicker and couldn't agree on it, as just one example.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Okay. Sit in a room with a handful a people and see how many disagree about what's "real" and "authentic."

We debated for a few hours on icing the kicker and couldn't agree on it, as just one example.

Yeah but did people say that it shouldn't be in the game? IMO, the discussion should be how do we go about implementing something, not whether it should be there.

For example, we shouldn't have had to fight for working penalties to be in the game...

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Yeah but did people say that it shouldn't be in the game? IMO, the discussion should be how do we go about implementing something, not whether it should be there.

For example, we shouldn't have had to fight for working penalties to be in the game...

There were definitely people who didn't think it should be in the game at all. It's not like icing the kicker is this universally accepted strategy.

And implementation is key and the reason why things don't get in like we might think they should. Take defensive PI, for example, if it's only called when a user actually impedes the progress of a receiver, that might limit the number of times it actually gets called. Whereas if you make it something that is occasionally triggered without user input, then you're taking control and agency away from the player. Which is right? You and your coworker may not agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[aholbert32]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Sage I'd argue that it's not the game the devs want to build but rather the game the suits want them to build. Even going back to the Ian days it seemed like he really cared about making a true to life sim game but as the years went on he was just beat into submission by what the suits thought was best.

I dont know about that. The "suits" only care about sales. As long as the sales are up, production costs are flat or down and things like MUT are bringing in revenue, they dont really care what kind of game the Madden team puts out.

The key is production costs and budget. The dev team has to decide what they want to use their limited financial resources towards.