Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Some players faces can move due to their "Face Poser" features. I think that is what he's referring to.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/8/25/60...game-making-of

I wonder if we'll see the JJ Watt style elbow brace from that article in this year.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

With "just be there by now" meaning, as some pics posted after my post demonstrate, it's a realistic general cosmetic aesthetic, that has no technical, licensing (like tattoos), etc reason for being left out, so given that how long Madden's been on these consoles, it's reasonable that it should have made the checklist by now.

To the specific point about the reason given, I already explained in my previous post, I'm not referring to animated mouthpieces, which it seems to me Kane was, I'm referring to cosmetic mouthpieces.

So let me seriously ask you, what's your general point, that they're not in so move on, no need in discussing it or having an opinion it?

So when you say cosmetic/animated, you still mean the larger mouthguard type, right? Because those can't be added cosmetically. That's the point. They have to move with the player's head and mouth. Otherwise you sacrifice that tech for mouthguards. And again, this is where we come down to choices.

I think the thing I'm trying to get across most with my posts is that everything that happens in development has a choice and a consequence. If you do thing X, you might lose thing Y, or thing X might keep you from doing thing Y. When they decided to do face scanning and mouth movement, along with animated helmets, it made other things much more difficult, such as adding mouthguards, as one example.

It's just like the CFM thread where people are talking about custom draft classes and lamenting how 2K has had them and Madden hasn't. That's because of the draft stories feature. They have to use generated rookies in order to generate draft stories, which is a thing 2K doesn't have at all. Now, there's probably a middle, and I can't say whether or not they'll ever hit it, but that's the basic reasoning behind not having custom, shareable draft classes. So to add custom draft classes would lose a big part of CFM immersion, which isn't a choice they want to make.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Some players faces can move due to their "Face Poser" features. I think that is what he's referring to.

http://www.sbnation.com/2014/8/25/6056683/madden-15-nfl-video-game-making-of

Brady facial movement video - http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8030383

The first thing I thought of when I saw some of those head scans was "I wonder why guys that use mouthpieces didn't take some scans with them". Now that's of course hindsight because I've never ever thought about that before now so I can understand why that didn't happen.

It'll be interesting once they do add them for me to hear what method they ended up using, ie face scans, photoshop, etc.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

The first thing I thought of when I saw some of those head scans was "I wonder why guys that use mouthpieces didn't take some scans with them". Now that's of course hindsight because I've never ever thought about that before now so I can understand why that didn't happen.

It'll be interesting once they do add them for me to hear what method they ended up using, ie face scans, photoshop, etc.

They'll be actual physics objects in the game world. Able to dangle, move, get jostled, etc. Like I said in another post on this topic, you'd have to be able to ensure that you can render 22 independent physics objects without sacrificing AI or performance, and you'd have to justify that work for something that not many people will ever see or notice. That's a really tall order.

Don't get me wrong, it would look real cool, and I would be impressed by it. I want them to be in there, for sure, but at a certain point, the reality is the reality.

[jstrick8]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

I wish they would bring back turf tape also. Which Madden was it where you could set equipment for different field types? I believe that 04? Correct me if I'm wrong. Why not bring something like that back. Set equipment for indoor/outdoor, turf/grass. Very underrated feature they removed.

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[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

So when you say cosmetic/animated, you still mean the larger mouthguard type, right? Because those can't be added cosmetically. That's the point. They have to move with the player's head and mouth. Otherwise you sacrifice that tech for mouthguards. And again, this is where we come down to choices.

I think the thing I'm trying to get across most with my posts is that everything that happens in development has a choice and a consequence. If you do thing X, you might lose thing Y, or thing X might keep you from doing thing Y. When they decided to do face scanning and mouth movement, along with animated helmets, it made other things much more difficult, such as adding mouthguards, as one example.

It's just like the CFM thread where people are talking about custom draft classes and lamenting how 2K has had them and Madden hasn't. That's because of the draft stories feature. They have to use generated rookies in order to generate draft stories, which is a thing 2K doesn't have at all. Now, there's probably a middle, and I can't say whether or not they'll ever hit it, but that's the basic reasoning behind not having custom, shareable draft classes. So to add custom draft classes would lose a big part of CFM immersion, which isn't a choice they want to make.

That's been the reason we've been told for years about custom draft classes. What point is a draft story though if you no longer hear about it after you select a player? I'd rather have realistically(or in line with base roster) ratings and realistic equipment, names, heights and weights than a story I hear for maybe 20 seconds when I pick a player.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

That's been the reason we've been told for years about custom draft classes. What point is a draft story though if you no longer hear about it after you select a player? I'd rather have realistically(or in line with base roster) ratings and realistic equipment, names, heights and weights than a story I hear for maybe 20 seconds when I pick a player.

They haven't done a good enough job of building it out yet, I agree.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

So when you say cosmetic/animated, you still mean the larger mouthguard type, right? Because those can't be added cosmetically. That's the point. They have to move with the player's head and mouth. Otherwise you sacrifice that tech for mouthguards. And again, this is where we come down to choices.

I think the thing I'm trying to get across most with my posts is that everything that happens in development has a choice and a consequence. If you do thing X, you might lose thing Y, or thing X might keep you from doing thing Y. When they decided to do face scanning and mouth movement, along with animated helmets, it made other things much more difficult, such as adding mouthguards, as one example.

It's just like the CFM thread where people are talking about custom draft classes and lamenting how 2K has had them and Madden hasn't. That's because of the draft stories feature. They have to use generated rookies in order to generate draft stories, which is a thing 2K doesn't have at all. Now, there's probably a middle, and I can't say whether or not they'll ever hit it, but that's the basic reasoning behind not having custom, shareable draft classes. So to add custom draft classes would lose a big part of CFM immersion, which isn't a choice they want to make.

So Madden does have mouth movement in-game, hmm.

To your other point, that's them basically doing what they choose which then sometimes hinders what's expected down the line though. Here's the thing, if someone has played Madden 2005 and it has features, options, etc that weren't in say Madden 2006 360 because those things need to be added back/ported, that's one thing. However if you have that scenario except those same things aren't in because a developer chose to build differently/rewrite and now they can't be just simply added in like before, I think it's reasonable for gamers to be confused. It's reasonable to think the new versions of a game will not remove or diminish what was in previous versions, without either a timeline to add them back or replace them with something better.

What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

Honestly I think that is why a majority of the things we want/expect in Madden by now is because of the poor architecture put in place coming into the last generation.

We know for a fact that coming into the last generation, the game was built just to have something to release/sell. I guess until those things are overhauled, we have to expect the team to encounter some hurdles. Some that are definitely not their fault....

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

So Madden does have mouth movement in-game, hmm.

To your other point, that's them basically doing what they choose which then sometimes hinders what's expected down the line though. Here's the thing, if someone has played Madden 2005 and it has features, options, etc that weren't in say Madden 2006 360 because those things need to be added back/ported, that's one thing. However if you have that scenario except those same things aren't in because a developer chose to build differently/rewrite and now they can't be just simply added in like before, I think it's reasonable for gamers to be confused. It's reasonable to think the new versions of a game will not remove or diminish what was in previous versions, without either a timeline to add them back or replace them with something better.

What I'm saying is I agree that gamers can expect things to be done quicker then what's possible in Madden, ie mouthguards back in by now but the caveat to that is, it's sometimes not possible due to avoidable consequences caused by unfortunate choices. Right there is where things often get lost in translation because people think that's some suggestion to blame devs or whatever but it's not, plenty of them weren't even around when some of those unfortunate choices were made. Besides being the truth, it's a reason to be patient with gamers and understand why they have those expectations, not act as if they don't have a valid gripe.

Well said. We havnt seen mouth guards since the jump to PS3/360. I know they didn't add facial animation and mouth movement until late into that console cycle and that's what bothers me. It seems everything they can't do now is bc of the lack of direction earlier.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

They'll be actual physics objects in the game world. Able to dangle, move, get jostled, etc. Like I said in another post on this topic, you'd have to be able to ensure that you can render 22 independent physics objects without sacrificing AI or performance, and you'd have to justify that work for something that not many people will ever see or notice. That's a really tall order.

Don't get me wrong, it would look real cool, and I would be impressed by it. I want them to be in there, for sure, but at a certain point, the reality is the reality.

See that goes to my point I just made, their choices. Sure having mouth accessories like that, have physics, etc would be cool but it's valid to question/discuss, why have none until then. This also goes back to one of my original points about how what you describes actually becomes a feature, which requires way more time and resources than a cosmetic place holder, for lack of a better word.

I'm of the mindset, at least for cosmetic additions, that it would seem better to invest time and resources into customization features/tools for the community vs devs adding in individual elements. Make some of version of the devs tools for these things available to the community in-game and let them collectively do on their own time, what would likely take a dev team on a limited cycle much longer to accomplish.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

There's a reason they no longer use that motto.

Lol. Man, that's too funny. I think about the motto every time I see something 'off' in the game. Lol. And, yeah, I think they realized at some point they weren't living up to their motto. That includes NBA live, I believe, too, though. I haven't played their hockey game in forever. FIFA may be the only EA sports title that could still use it. I actually play Fifa online and quite enjoy it. No 'nano blitzes' in soccer. Lol.


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[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

Well said. We havnt seen mouth guards since the jump to PS3/360. I know they didn't add facial animation and mouth movement until late into that console cycle and that's what bothers me. It seems everything they can't do now is bc of the lack of direction earlier.

I've always looked at yearly sports titles, ironically (or not, as it were), like a sports team. Let's say you root for the Timberwolves. A few years back, David Khan passes on Steph Curry for Jonny Flynn. David Khan mishandled the Kevin Love situation. The team was rudderless and bad.

Now, they have one of the most exciting young teams in basketball, under a new GM and new coach. Can you really hold what happened a decade ago against this current iteration of the team? Is the fact that they were terrible under Khan in any way relevant to their abilities now?

In most cases, no. Yeah, there was a bad transition from PS2/Xbox to 360/PS3. Everyone knows it. No one denies it. But I don't really think anyone from that team is still working on the game. It's been 10 years. Since then, there have been a lot of different approaches to getting the game back to where it was. They've gone through a handful of creative directors, a new lead at the studio, heck, 3 CEOs of EA as a company just in the past 6 years or so.

The point is there's been a lot of change, and a lot of good things brought to the game, and, based on what we know so far, they've added some huge, sim elements to the game. Of course, it's not there yet, just as the Timberwolves won't go 82-0 (or even make the playoffs), but there's certainly been progress. So you can choose. You can choose to support the situation now, or you can choose not to. Ultimately, it's your 60 bucks to do with what you wish.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

I don't think I'm alone on this, I would much rather have accurate face scans without mouthpieces than artists renderings with them. Eventually we can have both but until then I'm ok.


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[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Screenshot Featuring Under Armour and Adidas

See that goes to my point I just made, their choices. Sure having mouth accessories like that, have physics, etc would be cool but it's valid to question/discuss, why have none until then. This also goes back to one of my original points about how what you describes actually becomes a feature, which requires way more time and resources than a cosmetic place holder, for lack of a better word.

I'm of the mindset, at least for cosmetic additions, that it would seem better to invest time and resources into customization features/tools for the community vs devs adding in individual elements. Make some of version of the devs tools for these things available to the community in-game and let them collectively do on their own time, what would likely take a dev team on a limited cycle much longer to accomplish.

Right, but again, we both know a cosmetic placeholder would get ripped to shreds on here. Either do it right and don't do it at all.

And no, there would never be a situation where the dev tools are made available online. First off there's no vehicle or tech by which to re-introduce elements back into the game, and secondly, the tech in Madden is proprietary, and they're a publicly traded company. That's protected IP that would be irresponsible to let loose.