Stand up, a hot mess.

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  • BQ32
    Pro
    • Jan 2011
    • 671

    #1

    Stand up, a hot mess.

    I really like the grappling system and feel it is pretty well balanced but the striking continues to be a huge detriment to this game and feel it has actually gotten worse with the patches even if the intent was good.

    To start movement and striking feels so cumbersome and unresponsive. When using the quick steps it occasionally will not register or have such a delay that you press it again and then 2 steps come out. Moving forward and actually landing punches with a short fighter against a rangy fighter is very frustrating. I am all about realism and want to have to work to get in by cutting off the ring, using the jab and feints but in this game you can work to get in, sacrifice some damage to get in position only to have a short armed fighter still flail at nothing because I guess T-Rexs were not meant to box, even when named Tyson. However you can move on the outside and use proper timing with a taller/rangier fighter with success but it becomes monotonous being solely about keeping range and using straight punches which leads me to my biggest gripe.

    The sway/head movement is just horrid. A) it can be very difficult to use a sway and follow it with throwing the proper punch as there are to many commands mapped to the L2/LT button. B) The fighter needs to constantly reset to normal position after a sway in order to throw a punch, with already overly long striking animations it becomes impossible to become a real threat by counter punching after slipping which is the best defensive and offensive tactic for many real and great fighters such as Connor and Tyson. Also not being able to block while using headmovement is equally as absurd as you are left completely vulnerable to a body attack or a well placed shot. So in combination you are left with a system that is VERY high risk with practically no reward (the sway is great for take downs but this is in regards to striking). This nerfs smaller fighters that like to get in with with upper body movement and allows the game to become very robotic I.E. two players standing straight up taking turns exchanging strikes.

    Lastly the damage system is infuriating. You can pick an opponent apart using single punches including power straights and clean head kicks for several rounds with the opponent never being in any imminent danger, but land one series of three body uppercuts and a head punch and the opponent is most likely toast. And for the cherry on top is the completely random rock system. You may land 20 clean kicks to the face doing little damage and then your opponent gets a rock from a random strike, or because of the forced delay to block.
    I just can't fathom how a studio that prior to UFC worked solely on Fight Night, a pure striking game and have that aspect of the the UFC series be so shoddy. Maybe they should move some of the grappling devs over to the striking side. I hate to be so negative but I really want this game to be great, especially in the absence of fight night but in this state I can not continue to invest time into a frustrating experience.
  • WarMMA
    MVP
    • Apr 2016
    • 4612

    #2
    Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

    Yh the ground is amazing and easily the most realistic ground game in an mma game period, but the stand up still is highly lacking in comparison. The best thing they did was add the hit reactions, but that's about it. It's still pretty much the same thing from the first game with the whole brawly thing going on. Definitely agree with the post though..especially with the sways and damage system. We need to be able to throw a strike fluidly and instantly off a sway like how you could in undisputed. Also I have that gripe with movement too. Where I am forced to take this extra two steps and stuff. I wanna have full control of where my fighter is going. Thing I have to keep reminding myself of is this game (more so the striking) is made for casuals and ppl who just wanna button mash.

    Comment

    • SwedishTouch76
      MVP
      • Nov 2013
      • 1070

      #3
      Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

      Great post OP. I put the game down about a mth ago. Tried to give it another go last night. 2 fights in I just had enough. Outside of over the top hit reactions I feel like striking wasn't really worked on much at all. I've literally watched War MMA ask for stopping power on SINGLE STRIKES 1578 times. I think the majority wants that. Instead we get the combo Multiplier.

      I'll just say it. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the GC''s endorsed the multiplier. I know they didn't want one shot ko's. Scared it would mess up their precious W/L record. Smh

      Comment

      • WarMMA
        MVP
        • Apr 2016
        • 4612

        #4
        Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

        Originally posted by SwedishTouch76
        Great post OP. I put the game down about a mth ago. Tried to give it another go last night. 2 fights in I just had enough. Outside of over the top hit reactions I feel like striking wasn't really worked on much at all. I've literally watched War MMA ask for stopping power on SINGLE STRIKES 1578 times. I think the majority wants that. Instead we get the combo Multiplier.

        I'll just say it. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the GC''s endorsed the multiplier. I know they didn't want one shot ko's. Scared it would mess up their precious W/L record. Smh
        Lol. Idk man...it's like they just don't get it. What ppl want is consistent stopping power that's tied to the strikes themselves. Instead they choose to go with the over the top hit reactions and the silly multiplier. Then having literally all lighter strikes with no hit stun makes the striking even more spam catering and brawly. I can't pick my shots and throw a teep kick or rear leg kick at my opponent, cuz he will just get to hit me with free strikes. That's why ppl constantly throw modified strikes or combos. The game's striking promotes that type of playstyle. Btw I find the idea of getting rid of one shot ko's completely insane...I mean why would you get rid of what is pretty much the most exciting aspect of the sport? They could have easily just made some competition settings that eliminated it for ppl who wanna cry about it and their records. That's what undisputed did.
        Last edited by WarMMA; 05-27-2016, 12:04 PM.

        Comment

        • SwedishTouch76
          MVP
          • Nov 2013
          • 1070

          #5
          Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

          I know for a fact one GC didn't want one shot KO's in. " you can't have random stuff in competitive gaming" or something to that effect. It's pretty random in real life. Sometimes a flush shot might be absorbed and other times a short hook might hit the sweet spot and it's lights out.

          What's amusing is they had the MacGregor one shot kill when you pop the game in. Then say no we don't want that in the game. Huh?

          Comment

          • WarMMA
            MVP
            • Apr 2016
            • 4612

            #6
            Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

            Yh its pretty ridiculous to not include the most exciting thing in the sport because ppl wanna cry about their records in competition. All they had to do is take the route undisputed did. They had a few different settings in that game and one was for competition, which eliminated the random things happening. So under that setting, no one shot ko's could happen. EA could have easily did something like this and leave one hit ko's in. It's very realistic and arguably the most exciting aspect of mma. Why would you remove it?

            Comment

            • chapmandachamp
              Rookie
              • Jul 2014
              • 379

              #7
              Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

              i think fighters need more perks so u could give everyone the sway perks and then u can create that one punch KO u want.

              Comment

              • Webbington
                Rookie
                • May 2016
                • 137

                #8
                Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                Am I the only one who feels like the ground game still needs just as much work as the stand up?

                I mean, I'm not arguing that the stand up needs work, but I feel that, even though the ground game is headed in the right direction from the last game, there's still a lot of room for improvement with it.

                For example (one very minor example), not every fighter in the game should be able to transition from full guard to backsitting in one transition. I know it's easy to deny, but literally every fighter in the game has this transition, and I challenge anyone to point out 3 UFC fights where anyone has ever done it. The only fight I can think of off the top of my head where it happened was in the second round of BJ/Hughes 2. Aside from that I can't think of any other examples. It just isn't something that happens in MMA, so maybe don't remove the transition but at least only give it to a few specific fighters with superb ground technique.

                Lots of fighters ground stats need a serious nerf as well (Conor and Holm are great examples of this). In certain positions you can literally just spam transitions and not be finished (side control). Obviously you can transition to mount and finish from there, but it's still off. Mount could use a lot of work as well.

                Also, it's impossible to arm trap people in a lot of the positions that you're allowed to arm trap in the game.

                Just a few examples, but yeah, the ground game needs just as much work as the stand up IMO, if not more. To say that the stand up needs work but the ground game is fine is simply untrue in my experience.

                Comment

                • DubyaTO
                  Rookie
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 185

                  #9
                  Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                  It has a lot of issues, but it's the best striking in an MMA game to date IMO.

                  Comment

                  • WarMMA
                    MVP
                    • Apr 2016
                    • 4612

                    #10
                    Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                    Originally posted by DubyaTO
                    It has a lot of issues, but it's the best striking in an MMA game to date IMO.
                    It is, but it's issues mask what it is.

                    Comment

                    • BQ32
                      Pro
                      • Jan 2011
                      • 671

                      #11
                      Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                      Originally posted by DubyaTO
                      It has a lot of issues, but it's the best striking in an MMA game to date IMO.
                      Absolutely not. The striking and balance in THQ UFC3 on sim mode was much better than this. Sim mode was unbelievable and made that game fantastic but they did the most idiotic thing ever and made the causal mode ranked. Just made no sense and ruined the longevity of that game. This game looks better and the animations can look better but in that game you actually could perform what you set out to do and be successful mixing it up in different ways.

                      Comment

                      • WarMMA
                        MVP
                        • Apr 2016
                        • 4612

                        #12
                        Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                        Originally posted by Webbington
                        Am I the only one who feels like the ground game still needs just as much work as the stand up?

                        I mean, I'm not arguing that the stand up needs work, but I feel that, even though the ground game is headed in the right direction from the last game, there's still a lot of room for improvement with it.

                        For example (one very minor example), not every fighter in the game should be able to transition from full guard to backsitting in one transition. I know it's easy to deny, but literally every fighter in the game has this transition, and I challenge anyone to point out 3 UFC fights where anyone has ever done it. The only fight I can think of off the top of my head where it happened was in the second round of BJ/Hughes 2. Aside from that I can't think of any other examples. It just isn't something that happens in MMA, so maybe don't remove the transition but at least only give it to a few specific fighters with superb ground technique.

                        Lots of fighters ground stats need a serious nerf as well (Conor and Holm are great examples of this). In certain positions you can literally just spam transitions and not be finished (side control). Obviously you can transition to mount and finish from there, but it's still off. Mount could use a lot of work as well.

                        Also, it's impossible to arm trap people in a lot of the positions that you're allowed to arm trap in the game.

                        Just a few examples, but yeah, the ground game needs just as much work as the stand up IMO, if not more. To say that the stand up needs work but the ground game is fine is simply untrue in my experience.
                        You are more talking about movesets and stats thugh and not the actual grappling system itself. When it comes to the grappling system, it's the most realistic one in an mma game ever period. GPD gets big props for this one. But I agree with what your saying though...it's obvious these guys don't know how to handle movesets at all. Nothing is really unique to certain fighters or fighter types. Like why does the whole roster seem like experts off their back with everyone having this transition from guard to back sitting? It shouldn't be that way. I shouldn't see Cain Velasquez going from guard to back sitting like he is some bjj expert. I mean I know the guy is a black belt, but he isn't that type of fighter. If anything transition to back side for all directions would be more suitable for his type. But yh these kind of things need to be more unique. The guys at EA don't know how to handle movesets and it's very clear they need help in this area.

                        Comment

                        • Donnie_Brasco_FR
                          Pro
                          • Apr 2016
                          • 572

                          #13
                          Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                          Stand-up is good, i enjoy it a lot. Muay-thai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjMVWcByWWI Boxing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Bceesk-W0

                          Comment

                          • Webbington
                            Rookie
                            • May 2016
                            • 137

                            #14
                            Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                            Originally posted by WarMMA
                            You are more talking about movesets and stats thugh and not the actual grappling system itself. When it comes to the grappling system, it's the most realistic one in an mma game ever period. GPD gets big props for this one. But I agree with what your saying though...it's obvious these guys don't know how to handle movesets at all. Nothing is really unique to certain fighters or fighter types. Like why does the whole roster seem like experts off their back with everyone having this transition from guard to back sitting? It shouldn't be that way. I shouldn't see Cain Velasquez going from guard to back sitting like he is some bjj expert. I mean I know the guy is a black belt, but he isn't that type of fighter. If anything transition to back side for all directions would be more suitable for his type. But yh these kind of things need to be more unique. The guys at EA don't know how to handle movesets and it's very clear they need help in this area.
                            They just need to hire an expert, hardcore MMA fan/wizard like myself to help them out with that

                            Comment

                            • VK90
                              Rookie
                              • Apr 2016
                              • 11

                              #15
                              Re: Stand up, a hot mess.

                              Originally posted by BQ32

                              Lastly the damage system is infuriating. You can pick an opponent apart using single punches including power straights and clean head kicks for several rounds with the opponent never being in any imminent danger, but land one series of three body uppercuts and a head punch and the opponent is most likely toast. And for the cherry on top is the completely random rock system. You may land 20 clean kicks to the face doing little damage and then your opponent gets a rock from a random strike, or because of the forced delay to block.
                              ^^^^^^^ THIS

                              ABSOLUTELY! This is absolutely infuriating. I've never been so frustrated with a game. I've put countless hours into it, but I'm already losing interest simply because of this particular aspect. The combo multiplier is absolutely ridiculous. I have been advocating for a realistic and progressive damage system where the overall accumulation of damage will finish your opponent.

                              I still respect flash KO's from perfect counter shots, but the combo multiplier is just stupid. There is no other way to describe it. I haven't played for about 3 days, and it was after a 5 round title fight defense in division 3. I statistically destroyed my opponent with nasty head kicks and power straight counters. Leg kicks. Whatever, you name it.

                              Then in round 5 he lands one of those ridiculous combos that cause like 4 hit stuns in a row where you are totally defenseless (you know the ones that are all over youtube) and it's lights out. I'm about to hang this game up. I really sincerely care about the success of this title, but the lack interest in ditching the combo multiplier system has made me lose hope for the most part.

                              Finishing a fight shouldn't be solely based on exploiting a few ridiculous combos. You shouldn't be able to get your *** kicked for 5 rounds and then finish me with a greater the 50% stamina/damage deficit with one of these constantly exploited "combo multipliers". That's my two cents.

                              Comment

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