Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

@22 dont like how the right defensive tackle just throws the right guard to the ground like he's nothing. Very few players in the NFL can pull off this move, maybe only JJ Watt and Suh. From the clips Ive seen defensive tackles don't get any push, seems to be the same old block for a few seconds then boom they break from the block for a free hit on the Qb. Defensive end pressure seems to be improved, I'm sure pass blocking logic and pass rushing has been somewhat improved but it didn't get the major overhaul it desperately needs. How many years will they neglect to overhaul such a major fundamental part of the game.

They definitely need to do something about that. I don't have a problem when the higher rated players throw guys off which is the case here but most of the time it's the only way pressure is created inside. The ends look a lot better with the steering but still suffer from the same thing where it's engaged, engaged, engaged and then either completely free or stone walled. I've seen in a couple of these clips now OLineman going way too far forward in pass protection still also which probably coincides with the fact that they're attached to each other. This is definitely the biggest eyesore left IMO and even though they just did pass rush moves and such a couple years ago but I agree they need to get in and completely overhaul it.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

They definitely need to do something about that. I don't have a problem when the higher rated players throw guys off which is the case here but most of the time it's the only way pressure is created inside. The ends look a lot better with the steering but still suffer from the same thing where it's engaged, engaged, engaged and then either completely free or stone walled. I've seen in a couple of these clips now OLineman going way too far forward in pass protection still also which probably coincides with the fact that they're attached to each other. This is definitely the biggest eyesore left IMO and even though they just did pass rush moves and such a couple years ago but I agree they need to get in and completely overhaul it.

I am in agreement with this needing overhauling at some point in the near future. Here's hoping it doesn't take away too much of the developers time.

[khaliib]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

I'm just going to mention some things, not to knock the game, but in hope that a dev visiting would take a look at these notations for tuning purposes before release.

1) QB is not being forced up "into" the pocket were most sacks occur, past releases sacks occurred mainly due to deep dropbacks and/or right at the edge of the tackle box.

- the ball speed of the snap on shotgun plays may be a little too "instant to the QB hands", which may be allowing QB's to stand there in one spot while everything else plays catch up.

- flip side could be that the DL/OLB's are still being delayed at the snap across the board before entering into blocking interactions.

- Finess moved still look like they're still being linked to "block disengadgements" rather than just beating any OL blocking engagement attempts.
- this is leading to a lot of stalemates at the LOS, especially by edge rushing DE/OLB's

2) Ball arc on release are still running off of the "punt" animation.
- this is why there are little to no ball knock downs at the LOS, due to the ball release angle coming out as though it's been punted.
- ball comes out like a punt, but then flattens at an angle that the swat/tip animation is triggered.
- ball still looks like it travels from QB "directly" to the WR (tethered)
- "NO" ball travel that leads the WR (hopefully the ball being thrown consistently out of bounds on sideline throws has been tuned)

**my concern from the int is that the ball pops up in the air (ballon style) rather than being rerouted on a similar but different ball path.
- off a shoulder pad or helmet, this animation would be perfect, but off a hand tip, causing such a high ball pop up...

3) Ball Physics during contact/interaction with QB
- ball is held with one hand during tackle interactions!!!

- instead of it being a Trait, "ALL" defensive players should have Strip Ball enabled to trigger the attempt when interacting with the QB instead of requiring a "Big Hit" animation triggering a fumble by the QB.

4) Clip shows QB still slinging Mid-deep balls basically flat footed.
- the deep ball triggers a load-up animation, maybe mid-deep could have something similiar added
- this could help lessen the time QB's have to stand around if this has to be triggered on such throws.

Just some thoughts/aspects to look at before launch.
Like what I'm seeing and can't wait!!!

[SportsGamer94]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

In these clips the Qb's look like sitting ducks, I really hope Qb's have the awareness to attempt to dodge sacks and fight them off more often, would love to see more struggle tackles during sack attempts.

[TerryP]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

Tip looked great, never seen anything even remotely close to that in previous Maddens.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

What exactly are pocket disengage moves?

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

What exactly are pocket disengage moves?

It's the DL peeling off blocks to get to the QB. It's not well-explained in the video but that's what the Eli play was supposed to demonstrate.

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

- instead of it being a Trait, "ALL" defensive players should have Strip Ball enabled to trigger the attempt when interacting with the QB instead of requiring a "Big Hit" animation triggering a fumble by the QB.

There are specific QB strip animations that take place in the game, but I'm not sure that every DL should attempt to do them every time, if that's what this is trying to get across.

Here's a story on the Broncos from 2012. Lots of good info in there about how Von Miller didn't try to do it until Elvis Dumervil really talked about it with him, and how Dumervil didn't try to do it early in his career, and how other guys on the Broncos admit they just don't remember to do it.

It's definitely something every defensive player should be capable of, but there definitely is a tendency there that can't be ignored.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

It's the DL peeling off blocks to get to the QB. It's not well-explained in the video but that's what the Eli play was supposed to demonstrate.

How is it any different than what it's been in the past? I'm confused that defensive linemen going after the QB is a feature

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

How is it any different than what it's been in the past? I'm confused that defensive linemen going after the QB is a feature

I'm not in marketing my dude.


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[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

How is it any different than what it's been in the past? I'm confused that defensive linemen going after the QB is a feature

In the past dlinemen would be "glued" to the olineman for a much longer time when the QB rolled outside of the pocket. This is why basically every H2H player would roll out to pass on every play because the DL couldn't simply disengage and go right at him.

It was better last year and I'm just guessing that it's even better this year where they can attack those QBs out of the pocket even more quickly. If they had shown that Eli sack from the gameplay angle all the way, everyone would have a better sense of what they're talking about.

It really shouldn't be a "feature" per se, but because of the Madden legacy issues on this front, it logically is getting some attention.

[khaliib]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

There are specific QB strip animations that take place in the game, but I'm not sure that every DL should attempt to do them every time, if that's what this is trying to get across.

Here's a story on the Broncos from 2012. Lots of good info in there about how Von Miller didn't try to do it until Elvis Dumervil really talked about it with him, and how Dumervil didn't try to do it early in his career, and how other guys on the Broncos admit they just don't remember to do it.

It's definitely something every defensive player should be capable of, but there definitely is a tendency there that can't be ignored.

I mentioned it because until otherwise noted differently, "Hit Stick" type tackles on the QB triggered mostly as the mechanism for driving fumbles by QB's and possible weighted affect on the "Avoidance" animation triggering, even by Hum controlled players (didn't want to get into how "Auto" Avoidance is set to off which limited triggering in past releases).

Mentioned it to possibly be looked at on two fronts from what the short clip shows.

1) Strip Ball Trait (unless tuned/changed for M17) was set to off for most defensive players, yet it opens the door for other animations to trigger from AI QB Avoidance, break tackles and even its affect on the OL/DL interaction as players approached the "triggering window" of trait.

- for whatever reason, edge rushers bent the corner better against O-Tackles/TE's when they had the trait vs not having it. (not plecebo)

- both AI/Hum QB's would "auto" perform greater varied break tackle animations dependent on tacklers tackle rating.


2) was to really take a look at the weight of the "Hit Stick" triggering being the "main/if not only" mechanism to drive QB fumbling, as it's been for past releases. (relating to ball physics)

I've seen devs respond to some concerns from other clips, so thought I would toss a couple out there myself.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

How is it any different than what it's been in the past? I'm confused that defensive linemen going after the QB is a feature

You're missing the marketing aspect of this.. You're overreaching by claiming they are touting this as a feature.

"Lineman now disengage their block and go after QB outside pocket" sounds alpt worse to mainstream madden players than Pocket Disengage.

You have to understand the thought process of marketing a video game, these guys aren't amateurs.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

One of my bigger beefs with the OL/DL over the past several Maddens, and I'm sure many others feel the same way, is the patty-cake patty cake they play all the time.

To me, it's a welcome addition if ratings play out better in these one on one situations and the DL/DE win out every so often.

And I don't give a hoot what marketing calls it.

Your mileage may vary.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - Pocket Disengage and Ball Physics

I'm not in marketing my dude.


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Well I mean you've played over 40 hours of the game lol was just asking if it's any different than what we've had