They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mode

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

For guys who complain about drive goals. u do know you can turn them off this year. I did. It would be kool as commish for be able to turn it off for whole online league though hated playing against players and seeing it pop up.

Those wanted a draft board maybe should have put certain players as watch in Madden 16. I was unable to make 1st round of my draft and the cpu select one of my 1st round pics while i was away. He was a late 1st however i was going to take him high anyway and it did it. Giving me a relief b/c i seriously thought i would miss out on him and having cpu pick a player i don't want or need. I'm scheme specific when it comes to drafting/FA/trading. If a person don't fit my scheme I don't look for him regardless of talent.

I would of love to be able to have my #1 CB trail the #1 wr due to some people just love putting their best wr in slot and running slants or drags.

I just want to know will scheme matter when acquiring players via trade/fa/draft. Horrible looking at teams in online leagues just grab high rated overalls just because.

[scoobyskyline3]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

Anyone hear anything on them unrealisticlly dropping players attributes majorly at the age of 30 and beyond. For example a player speed could be 93 and once he turn 30 or 31 his speeds drops to 86 or something along those lines. It kills Free Agency with 95 overall players you cant use simply b/c of being butchered in speed at age of 30.

First off,it seems like everyone is being really negative here. Alot of additions in this madden are community based that i dont really care for like (fully editable players) bc im in an online league so we wouldnt touch it, but this was what the community asked for and we need to be thankful the devs are paying attention to our wishes and MAKING THEM HAPPEN.

KOTC Wayne i tweeted clint oldenburg and asked about speed regression just how you described it as well as CBs having more strength than DEs and LBs in the draft classes and he said it is fixed. From these pictures it seems as if they are losing about 2 points per year.

In addition,big decisions dealing with injuries and still having a slider will REALLY help our sim feel. Oline cant get hurt during play but with injuries more true to nfl style, I could see how having he practice squad would help and create a minigame for an online league with lots of users. I imagine id keep the freakishly athletic guys on the roster and fill in guys on the PS.

Im excited, theyve taken a major step in the right direction so im all in right now

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

That is a fair request and would like that option too.

I look at setting XP allocation to "auto" as something similar to having coordinators.

that can be a good look on it however as some one who is picky on how I build my squad i got to able to put that hard earn xp to attributes/traits that fit my play style on both sides of ball.

I run a man heavy defense aka Cover 1 with either of my safeties mostly the SS playing as hybrid. One who can cover or blitz while my other safety plays Hero ball as last line of defense. I don't want xp which is hard to come by for certain positions going to attributes that don't fit my style of play especially on defense.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

that can be a good look on it however as some one who is picky on how I build my squad i got to able to put that hard earn xp to attributes/traits that fit my play style on both sides of ball.

I run a man heavy defense aka Cover 1 with either of my safeties mostly the SS playing as hybrid. One who can cover or blitz while my other safety plays Hero ball as last line of defense. I don't want xp which is hard to come by for certain positions going to attributes that don't fit my style of play especially on defense.

I agree.. I like to allocate my XP as I see fit...

[NateDogPack12]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

Yep, this right here, some want NFL representation while others will try to frame whatever EA chooses to do as a sound move simply because it's a video game. The latter I always find odd because past football video games, even past Maddens, have represented certain NFL team management aspects more realistically, while still remaining fun, skillful, challenging and selling well to boot.

Point of moderation - you need to be very careful about throwing shade at people. Don't assume a sinister motive from others. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they have an agenda. Generally, the people ALWAYS doing one thing are folks like you who are negative 98% of the time.

I'm all about replicating what I loved about Maddens of old. Guiding my players through team meetings and coaches that significantly impacted regression were never part of that. The coordinators mattered because they afforded you bonuses in attributes.

I really get where you guys are coming from but until you present a thorough, serious, and precise mechanism for player progression that can supplant what we have, I think your criticism rings hollow. I read almost every post on this forum as is my job as a mod, and I haven't seen a proposal that doesn't have major deficiency.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

Listen, the day to day activities of coaching staffs in the NFL in terms of their meetings and what not - that stuff is largely the same across the league. It isn't enough to SIGNIFICANTLY impact player progression.



The same is the case with coaching staffs. Players blossom and regress all the while having minuscule and talented positional coaches respectively. The marginal differences that do occur the game already accounts for. Give McCarthy a bonus with QB's and CB's (Joe Whitt, Jr.) and give others similar bonuses. The game already does this. Certain coaches will grant WR's AWR + 3 for example.



Your proposed methodology is not only inadequate but it is fundamentally flawed. You're advocating for a bunch of monotonous processes.

If that's the case why do teams even bother with coaching staffs? Why hire an OL coach if he's not going to have an impact on the development of the players he's coaching? Are you telling me Aaron Rodgers becomes virtually the same player today whether it was Mike McCarthy or Steve Spurrier coaching him? Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But that's something that other factors like player potential also have a role in.

Also, how does giving players certain bonuses reflect any bit of coaching that has been imparted on the player? So a player becomes more aware thanks to his coach but if he changes teams he forgets everything that went into making him more aware?

And your last line sounds a lot like game prep and progressing players with XP.

[Trick13]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

EDIT: Sorry, Trick. I was trying to quote you but somehow edited my post INTO your post. This was a mistake on my part.

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

reason you could buy coach traits which impacted positions in game prep or during FA.

Example i Mike McCarthy would be one of my main coaching candidate due to fact he runs same scheme as I did and his traits affected positions I needed the most.

I run a west coast offense with hybrid d ( aka base 34) he is one of few coaches who was a must hire for me regardless of lg i was in.

I would love to have coordinators/scout/trainer that impact players a lilt bit moor than they do I now aka Head Coach style however I am one of the few that love Everything Head Coach bought to a NFL game.

One of my big concerns before coordinators is do scheme matter when in CFM. When acquiring players/coaches does it play a part in team success or not. Tired of guessing. I want to know if i build my squad aka Packers, Pats, Steelers way will i be rewarded vs the Raiders, Cowboys etc way with just paying for high profile players regardless if they fit you scheme.

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

Monotonous processes like having to award XP for 63 guys to avoid the CPU wasting XP on a trait that doesn't work???

And coaching makes a huge difference, that's way that Scrouge character in NE gets paid so darn well,it is why Lombardi, Landry, Knoll, and Shula are legends. Your argument is invalid because it doesn't have any basis in reality - QBs that play for McCarthy are magically better the day they sign - he is a better QB coach and his system allows QBs to be better prepared to perform.

Like you just dig the boosts, instantly QB John Jones signs with GB- plus 3 med accuracy first day of practice - he magically throws the 12 yard out better than yesterday dah dah dah daaaaaaaaaah...

Give me a break

traits do work its just picking the ones that fit your play style along with right attributes.
I run a man heavy cover 1 scheme I go for traits 1st usually since I play in no switch lg. Depending on position I will get certain traits ASAP. I am fond of actually building a squad ground up. So if a players is on my team He is usually with me for life of the game unless he becomes expendable for another player or draft pic.

[NateDogPack12]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

BB is paid well because of the cohesion he builds and his schematic excellence. His elite trait is team building - not creating superhuman players. There are great players on bad teams and bad players on good ones. The NFL talent pool is comparatively equal compared to college football such that a coaching staff is not and cannot be the full catalyst or player progression. There are SO MANY variables at play. Some of it is just individual work ethic and genetics. Some of the tertiary factors like scheme and coach attributes are already represented.

Once again, I challenge you to formulate a complete and thorough model wherein we can achieve realistic and fun player progression. Give a constructive idea that isn't full of holes. The challenge in a video game is that at times we have to animate processes that we can't fully replicate in real life. The burden is on you to articulate how this can be done better.

Up to this point, you've failed profoundly. All you can point to is coaches and day-to-day activities that will be tantamount to a level of micromanagement unappealing to the vast majority. I love talking about making Madden better. I'm down to hear anything you offer.

Of course, you can just keep bashing the current system without being constructive at all. Just know that at some point that becomes agenda posting and isn't a wise endeavor. Maybe instead of rudely telling those with whom you disagree to take a break, you should take a break yourself and remember this is just a video game.

[That Army Allen]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

being able to customize draft classes and share them

so people can create realistic draft classes or even ones that accurately reflect the upcoming draft classes of 2017, 2018, etc

This is what the community for online leagues really wanted. What they implemented was kind of an easy cop out imo. Still some good additions though.

[Hooe]

They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mode

No, where we fundamentally disagree is on the methodology of simulating the development arc of professional athletes.



You prefer direct user control of specific attribute increases based on a system that doesn't require that player to even practice said skill. You could do pass rush drills all year long and use all that XP on zone coverage, which is, IMO, dumb. Now, I am not saying you are dumb, or that you cheat like that.

I prefer a system that is simple to understand and engage yet elegant in the emergent video game challenges it presents. XP is exactly that.

It's dead simple to use and understand - I reach a milestone, I earn points I can spend to improve my players. At the same time it creates opportunity costs all over the place - where and how should I spend my XP, how does that affect what I can and should do in future matches, should I save my XP now to buy some trait that costs more later, etc. etc.?

Does it allow me to do some "not sim" things like what you listed? Sure. Is it authentic to real life NFL player development, which predominantly happens during components of the NFL offseason such as OTAs and minicamp (neither of which are represented in Madden in any capacity)? Nope. Do I care? Not really. The current system is plenty engaging as purely a video game mechanic and creates interesting video game challenges in and of itself.

Most important is that the XP system reinforces the core gameplay, and vice versa - I do tasks in game to earn XP, then I spend XP to improve my stats, then I can achieve more difficult tasks to earn more XP... and so on. Seeing my players improve and having direct agency in that increases my motivation to keep playing. It makes the entire game a better total package because the individual pieces reinforce each other.

Yell all you want about it, but XP and leveling is smart game design which has stood the test of time over multiple decades of use across thousands of games. It isn't flawed in concept whatsoever.

What I am saying is that I would rather have full coaching staffs with attributes out of my direct influence. I would hire/fire/replace said entities based on their strengths and weaknesses. Those attributes would impact player development in combination with the individual player's potential/development ratings.



Where I, the user, would influence this, is like the really real world where as the head honcho I would determine the schedule - team vs position group meetings, individual drills, one on one, 7 on 7, full team, with pads, hat n shells, strength and conditioning, film study, walk throughs and so forth based on off season, mini-camp, training-camp, preseason, regular season.



I could also influence what attributes may be impacted based on what set of drills I set for each position.



Example - running a 3-4 I would have OLB spend more time doing pass rush work, running a 4-3 I would assign them more coverage drills, if I was inclined to run a multi front defense I would have to maybe balance those drills.



Maybe I have excellent receiving TEs, and play in a division with pretty tough front seven groups, so I focus a lot of their group time on blocking, or chipping, or cutting routes short.



We fundamentally disagree because you don't see how amazingly in depth and yet exponentially less time consuming a good progression system would be when the user manages a schedule rather than micromanaging every single point of progression...

All the new mechanics you propose are each individually and collectively fantastic on the authenticity front. I readily admit that. However, you've introduced a ton of game design problems, and this is where I have my problems.

First, you've basically boxed out any casual fan ever from playing Franchise with how dense you've just made the game. How many things does a new user have to do now before they play even a single preseason game (and all of these tasks probably are each a new thing the user is unfamiliar with)? How do explain to the user the unique significance of non-interactive UI-based gameplay tasks such as position meetings, team meetings, strength and conditioning, film study, game plan install, etc. before he gets bored because he's not actually on the field scoring touchdowns yet? How many gates are you willing to put in front of new players between them and their first real in-game accomplishment?

You've also boxed out veteran Madden players who enjoy the game and its authenticity on paper but don't have the time required to execute each intermediate step between start game and result. There's a fine line between authentic depth and tedious busy work that console sports games like this walk tenuously. Do you honestly have time to perform every new task you created for yourself, every week in a season, for multiple seasons? In doing this, are you really sure you can keep your interest in the game up if all this new gameplay is purely new UI to navigate (and no interactive component beyond that)? Are you really sure you want so many tasks you presumably must do between playing each opponent on your schedule to succeed at the highest level?

God bless you if you do and are, but I sure as hell don't and won't. I struggle to finish a single season of Madden anymore and I obviously really enjoy the game as-is, else I wouldn't be going to EA PLAY tomorrow. I just don't have the time to invest anymore. I don't want more busy work. If anything the features which make the Franchise experience more accessible and faster to consume appeal to me at this stage in my life. Play The Moment is probably my favorite new franchise feature this year, to that end. It allow me to enjoy more of the Franchise mode experience in less time. And sure, the mechanics you add could all be skippable / simmable, but why add all these mechanics to the game if you anticipate that no less than 70% of the audience will never use them, be it for lack of time or lack of understanding? That's a massive waste of game development resources, and it also doesn't speak well to the mechanics being strong if they aren't things the user actively wants to engage.

Finally there's also the point of user agency. The system you propose offers much less agency to the user. Any modicum of control he has is indirect - pick a menu option, some dice roll happens influenced by X number of simulation factors (coach quality / ratings, player mentality / morale, planet alignment...) and then result. None of which ever plays out on screen. He can influence it somewhat by hiring a new coach, but he never makes a gameplay choice to guarantee success or failure based on skill. At some level it is random.

In contrast, the current system is a very direct and obvious feedback loop - do task, get result. No questions asked. Predictable and direct behavior is better game design, especially for newer players who won't understand why they are failing if they get bad dice rolls. These players will get frustrated, leave the game, complain about it being cheap, then your audience shrinks. This is why missed attacks in classic JRPGs frustrate people - sure the user can find better equipment, boost his stats, use consumables, or whatever to try and minimize the miss chance beforehand, but there's nothing the user can do to prevent the unfavorable outcome he just endured during the actual gameplay scenario. There is no skill, it is chance. This is also a big reason why the Possession Catch mechanic was added to Madden 16 last year - it gives users a new gameplay mechanic with which to combat bad dice rolls by their receivers resulting in frustrating dropped passes, and it adds a feeling of skill to the game - my button press told that receiver to make sure he caught that ball at all costs, YAC and acrobatics be damned. Agency is HUGE in console video games.

If you want the level of depth and indirection you describe in a football game, you're never going to find it in Madden. It is a console video game with a massive audience so its mechanics must always be within reach of the least common denominator - both from an accessibility and agency standpoint. Text sims might be more up your alley; those are dense as hell and 99% of their gameplay is clicking buttons but they very often are more mechanically authentic and dense than Madden is, or really ever will be.

[RockoRock]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

Disappointing.

Dont get me wrong, they seem to have added some nice features, but again....the lack of custom draft classes and continued lack of attention given to making coaches matter is likely going to make me skip the game yet another year. If I can get the game for half price or something, I might buy it.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

The NFL talent pool is comparatively equal compared to college football such that a coaching staff is not and cannot be the full catalyst or player progression. There are SO MANY variables at play.

I don't know that anyone is suggesting that coaches be the full catalyst so much as another ingredient in the "stew" that is player progression. Like you said, there are many variables. I'd argue that coaching definitely is one of those variables. Is it the only variable? Absolutely not. But I'd also argue that something like a running back running for 99 yards vs. 100 yards or winning player of the week is not one of those variables that should be a major factor in player development. And I think the latter is a far easier argument to make. I know if coaching staffs made it into the game I'd want them to be something that worked together with potential (and other possible variables like one you mentioned in Work Ethic), not ignore or undermine it. Good coaching isn't going to save the player with poor potential and turn him into a stud just as bad coaching wouldn't keep a destined superstar from being great. Just as goals, potential and game prep currently work together to provide the current progression model, coaching staffs would act as another variable to do the same thing albeit in a far more realistic manner imo.

I don't have the time nor the willingness to attempt to construct a flawless progression system void of holes that every person will find both fun and realistic because it simply isn't possible. However, I do feel strongly that as a game whose goal is to be an authentic football simulation it has plenty of holes of its own and room to grow in this area but as to avoid agenda posting, I concede.

[JimmyT85]

Re: They Heard You: Popular Community Requests Coming to Madden NFL 17's Franchise Mo

I love the sound of all these new additions, CFM will be a blast to play!

However, I'm disappointed that it seems Superstar/single player CFM hasn't been touched