New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people off?

[jpdavis82]

http://youtu.be/PIEPyWmV0pA?a

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[Cowboy008]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I'm hoping it sells well so Rex can keep adding in more Sim stuff every year. Also am hoping that they don't go ahead and patch things to make it easier for people this year.

[jfsolo]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I'm hoping it sells well so Rex can keep adding in more Sim stuff every year. Also am hoping that they don't go ahead and patch things to make it easier for people this year.

Co-Sign 1000%

I'm so glad that Rex philosophically believes that building for the core will bring the casuals along too, spurning the thinking of marketing and the suits who have an antithetical thought process.

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I'm hoping it sells well so Rex can keep adding in more Sim stuff every year. Also am hoping that they don't go ahead and patch things to make it easier for people this year.

Same. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, rather than selling more copies the core-sim players should feel comfortable/prepared putting their $ where their mouth is and support EAs push to make the game sim. No sitting out a release because players don't have the proper socks or we can't import custom draft classes. Imo

[roadman]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Same. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, rather than selling more copies the core-sim players should feel comfortable/prepared putting their $ where their mouth is and support EAs push to make the game sim. No sitting out a release because players don't have the proper socks or we can't import custom draft classes. Imo

I think that might have been a hidden clue if the game sells less vs. prior years, the tilting of the scales will go more towards the arcade style, possibly.

[huskerfan4life]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I really like the way Rex said that they were going after the sim gamers as a base and the casual will come I think he is great to point this out

[bcruise]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I really like the way Rex said that they were going after the sim gamers as a base and the casual will come I think he is great to point this out

I really like that approach. I think a sim game is a lot easier to modify into an arcade/casual game than vice versa.

[msdm27]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

I appreciate the honesty in Rex's comments BUT... I really believe all such comments do is put them at an unattainable level of expectations. We already know by seeing the released videos that his comments are not true, or at least not accurate.

I reckon this is their goal (a game so sim, that makes people double think), but M17 is not that unless millions of hours of tuning go in before release.

I made this comment in another thread but I will reiterate, EA is in a difficult position because the truth is: THE GAME WILL PLAY SIM AS LONG AS THE USERS PLAY SIM.

If you're playing the game to break it, you will ultimately break it, no matter what EA does. Every single year they refer to fixing qb rollouts so that it is not so easy for the user, yet this is the only thing we see in videos policed by themselves.

The problem is they CANNOT design or code the game based on broken or non-football actions, for example a QB dropping back 15-20 yds on every snap to then rollout. I bet you if you try to rollout at the proper dropback depth then you would notice how difficult it would be and how good EA's implementation of these fixes is.

All that to say the following, as long as WE play the game the way we act like we play it, then lots of those glaring issues we point to on GameChanger videos will disappear or become less flagrant (things like locomotion are there regardless).

The problem with the sim community in general is being oversensitive to the way others play the game as if that affected they way sim players would or should play. If you play SIM, the game will likely reward or punish you in SIM ways, it's up to you to make sure it is this way.

[BezO]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Rex Dickson would make for a great politician. How is he comfortable making these statements after what we've seen so far?

I appreciate the honesty in Rex's comments BUT... I really believe all such comments do is put them at an unattainable level of expectations. We already know by seeing the released videos that his comments are not true, or at least not accurate.

I reckon this is their goal (a game so sim, that makes people double think), but M17 is not that unless millions of hours of tuning go in before release.

I made this comment in another thread but I will reiterate, EA is in a difficult position because the truth is: THE GAME WILL PLAY SIM AS LONG AS THE USERS PLAY SIM.

If you're playing the game to break it, you will ultimately break it, no matter what EA does. Every single year they refer to fixing qb rollouts so that it is not so easy for the user, yet this is the only thing we see in videos policed by themselves.

The problem is they CANNOT design or code the game based on broken or non-football actions, for example a QB dropping back 15-20 yds on every snap to then rollout. I bet you if you try to rollout at the proper dropback depth then you would notice how difficult it would be and how good EA's implementation of these fixes is.

All that to say the following, as long as WE play the game the way we act like we play it, then lots of those glaring issues we point to on GameChanger videos will disappear or become less flagrant (things like locomotion are there regardless).

The problem with the sim community in general is being oversensitive to the way others play the game as if that affected they way sim players would or should play. If you play SIM, the game will likely reward or punish you in SIM ways, it's up to you to make sure it is this way.

I disagree. Players don't interact, move or think close enough to their real life counterparts to be sim.

For example, no matter what you do, interior d-linemen won't collapse the pocket; edge rushers won't get up the field as fast as they should. For these reasons and others, the passing experience will never be sim.

Another example, outside runs. Despite the improved engaged player mobility and gap assignments, engaged defender's lateral movement and interaction are not allowing them to defend the outside like their real life counterparts. The only way for defenders to do their job in Madden is to disengage (less interior d-linemen demanding double teams, if this is tuned correctly).

There are many more examples of fundamental aspects of football missing that make it impossible to get a sim experience out of Madden. For clarification, my version of sim is HOW plays unfold, not just the results.

And of course they can code the game so you can't drop back 20 yards and roll out. Untie the offensive and defensive assignments, address the blocking interaction, get edge rushers up the field.

[bucky60]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Same. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, rather than selling more copies the core-sim players should feel comfortable/prepared putting their $ where their mouth is and support EAs push to make the game sim. No sitting out a release because players don't have the proper socks or we can't import custom draft classes. Imo

How about sitting out from buying because there Franchise Mode (CFM) is so unrealistic and arcade like? I can support the game play guys, but after hearing how proud that Mr. White guy is of his CFM in some interview I watched, I can't support them. Hard for me to believe they are going for realism/sim when looking at CFM.

[sir psycho]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

How about sitting out from buying because there Franchise Mode (CFM) is so unrealistic and arcade like? I can support the game play guys, but after hearing how proud that Mr. White guy is of his CFM in some interview I watched, I can't support them. Hard for me to believe they are going for realism/sim when looking at CFM.

Rex Dickson would make for a great politician. How is he comfortable making these statements after what we've seen so far?

I have to agree with these guys. Rex, like the NFL head coach with that first name, sure seems to be able to talk a much bigger game than he delivers, which really bums me out. We have twitter quotes from him and Clint saying that the line play, and the pocket formation was overhauled...from the videos it clearly wasn't. We have twitter quotes of Rex and White saying that CFM was overhauled, from the blogs it clearly wasn't. I mean, yes, there were some nice improvements, but it was not overhauled. I'm thrilled that the ticker was finally added, and that editing was brought back, but it's not overhauled. He keeps saying that it's all about sim, sim, sim, but then we just get further entrenched in the unrealistic XP system in CFM. So, while I would love to believe the "so simulation it may turn some people off" angle, I just can't at this point.

Then, listening to this interview, the thought of top priorities going forward including story mode, online team play, and virtual reality is a bit disappointing. If he's truly worried about the sim community, the top priorities should include actually overhauling CFM and actually overhauling lineplay, among other things.

All that being said, I am still looking forward to this game and will very likely buy M17 because it does look better than it has in years. Rex has definitely done some very good things with the game, and has set it in the right direction for the most part. I will probably enjoy M17, and by no means am I looking to be really negative or have an agenda against the game, but the point of this post is that I'm just getting annoyed with him making these big claims and them turning out to be not true.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

How about sitting out from buying because there Franchise Mode (CFM) is so unrealistic and arcade like? I can support the game play guys, but after hearing how proud that Mr. White guy is of his CFM in some interview I watched, I can't support them. Hard for me to believe they are going for realism/sim when looking at CFM.

I wonder how much of a part the fact that they're separate teams in separate cities plays a role in CFM being like it is. It just seems like for working on the same game the direction of both of them is so much different than one another. CFM feels like Madden 06 all over again with the way it was "rebuilt" on such a poor base.

[Impetuous65]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Not buying that statement, after seeing this weeks videos.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Rex Dickson would make for a great politician. How is he comfortable making these statements after what we've seen so far?

I disagree. Players don't interact, move or think close enough to their real life counterparts to be sim.

For example, no matter what you do, interior d-linemen won't collapse the pocket; edge rushers won't get up the field as fast as they should. For these reasons and others, the passing experience will never be sim.

Another example, outside runs. Despite the improved engaged player mobility and gap assignments, engaged defender's lateral movement and interaction are not allowing them to defend the outside like their real life counterparts. The only way for defenders to do their job in Madden is to disengage (less interior d-linemen demanding double teams, if this is tuned correctly).

There are many more examples of fundamental aspects of football missing that make it impossible to get a sim experience out of Madden. For clarification, my version of sim is HOW plays unfold, not just the results.

And of course they can code the game so you can't drop back 20 yards and roll out. Untie the offensive and defensive assignments, address the blocking interaction, get edge rushers up the field.

I not only agree with your entire post, but the bolded part sums up PERFECTLY how I have felt about this game for a long, long time. Everything with Madden is the end result. The real issue that makes Madden such a frustrating experience is that process to get to the outcomes. I've learned to temper expectations about this game long ago. Just because they market something or talk about it, doesn't mean it actually works. I still see all of the same issues with the line play, the player movement, the physics, the player interactions. We've been talking for years about defenders making plays while engaged. The good news is that there is still a football option that provides all of these things, but it would be so much more fun to be playing the current game. Who wouldn't want to enjoy a Madden game on that level?

I guess what it comes down to when I see an interview like this, and this talk of "being so sim, people may not like it" I have to laugh to keep from crying. Madden isn't even caught up to the old games, how can you even talk about being TOO sim??? All I've ever asked for is what I had over a decade ago and it's still not really close. Then I see how much the other sports games get every year and it's depressing. FIFA looks absolutely amazing, NBA 2k, NHL and MLB are pushing the envelope every year. Then there's football, trying to catch up to 2005. This company just takes their core fan base for granted. I like that Rex wants to go in that direction to cater to your core, which I also feel is the right thing to do for reasons I won't bother with in this thread, but it still isn't really getting there. There is so much basic football that doesn't work right, and we've clearly seen that it CAN be done.

[Brightline]

Re: New interview with Rex Dickson: Madden 17 so simulation it may turn some people o

Interesting point being made about how gameplay is moving in a sim direction but CFM is really not even interested in trying.