Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

[Downtown Bob]

Is it just me or does it feel like zone teams are at a disadvantage in Madden compared to mainly man coverage teams? Because no matter how good a zone is, the AI will always find the open man on All-Madden. Wondering if this is just me or no

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

In years past (every year) If you play a zone vs the CPU they can and will pick you apart for the most part. Sometimes depends on qb or your qb accuracy ratings or sliders but out of the box yes they will. If you play man vs the CPU the CPU struggles as they call curls or verts plays so much (which work vs zone) that they don't have anyone open and take sacks far to often.

This is the opposite though vs another user. If you run man it's take your pick which wide open receiver to throw too especially with crossing routes or drags. But users struggle if you mix zones in more so, especially the exotic zones with some zone blitzes thrown in.

[Downtown Bob]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

In years past (every year) If you play a zone vs the CPU they can and will pick you apart for the most part. Sometimes depends on qb or your qb accuracy ratings or sliders but out of the box yes they will. If you play man vs the CPU the CPU struggles as they call curls or verts plays so much (which work vs zone) that they don't have anyone open and take sacks far to often.

This is the opposite though vs another user. If you run man it's take your pick which wide open receiver to throw too especially with crossing routes or drags. But users struggle if you mix zones in more so, especially the exotic zones with some zone blitzes thrown in.

That makes sense. I am doing a Franchise as my favorite team the Panthers and know that they predominantly run zone. So I've been trying to do this and have been getting destroyed as I have one of the worst pass defenses in the league. I guess I'll switch over to playing man more

[Nickda55]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

I much rather prefer to play zone than man. It seems like my corners always get beat in man coverage for a big play, while in zone have a much better chance of playing a bend but don't break defense

[SageInfinite]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

In previous Madden's I played alot of man, in Madden 16 I almost always run zone, seems like my defenders are always a step slow......

[Sgexpat]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

In years past (every year) If you play a zone vs the CPU they can and will pick you apart for the most part. Sometimes depends on qb or your qb accuracy ratings or sliders but out of the box yes they will. If you play man vs the CPU the CPU struggles as they call curls or verts plays so much (which work vs zone) that they don't have anyone open and take sacks far to often.

This is the opposite though vs another user. If you run man it's take your pick which wide open receiver to throw too especially with crossing routes or drags. But users struggle if you mix zones in more so, especially the exotic zones with some zone blitzes thrown in.

I found this to be a big problem on default settings (aka Robo-QB). This issue can be significantly mitigated by sliders. With the changes they've made to how zone is played, I don't think it will be an issue at all in M17..

I'll be more worried about man coverage being under-powered then, and perhaps zone being over-relied upon.

[ithinkimchipkelly]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

As someone who runs man 90% of times i hope it doens't become under powered. In m16 in a no switch lg its moor of a risk but with quality cover guys and good game planning aka study tendencies of players i was successful at least half the times.

Zone once a player was beat or open no was around with man if even if they get beat their close by to make tackle.

[cusefan74]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

People think zone doesn't work in Madden but it does, not as good as it should though. I use it and have a lot of success with it, you just have to figure out when is the right time to use it.

One time that I always use it is when the other team gets inside my 20 into the redzone, once there I use nothing but zone.

[Mr.Tennessee]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

I much rather prefer to play zone than man. It seems like my corners always get beat in man coverage for a big play, while in zone have a much better chance of playing a bend but don't break defense

Totally agree, I play man about 70% of the time and usually keep the offense in check except for 1 or 2 plays where I would play man and they would score a long touchdown.Zone seems better at keeping those big plays from happening but you give up a lot of dink and dunk yardage.

[Aestis]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

Almost all the users in our M16 online CFM played primarily zone, but at higher levels with the right personnel, I think man becomes a lot, lot better. It's absolutely viable as a base defense and tends to work better vs top users than zone might. Among the advantages is a lot of guys don't run base man defense, thus users aren't as experienced at beating it. But I do think it's tougher to pull off and requires pretty strong personnel. I ran a 3-4/hybrid scheme man coverage shell as my base defense in M16 once I got the right guys in place and had one of if not the best pass defense in the league.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

Almost all the users in our M16 online CFM played primarily zone, but at higher levels with the right personnel, I think man becomes a lot, lot better. It's absolutely viable as a base defense and tends to work better vs top users than zone might. Among the advantages is a lot of guys don't run base man defense, thus users aren't as experienced at beating it. But I do think it's tougher to pull off and requires pretty strong personnel. I ran a 3-4/hybrid scheme man coverage shell as my base defense in M16 once I got the right guys in place and had one of if not the best pass defense in the league.

The problem isn't the ratings of a player in man coverage. You could have a guy with 100 man coverage rating with 99 speed with man coverage slider and pass reaction maxed at 100 and a wr with 1 in route running and 50 in speed and the CB still can't stop an out route or curl route let alone a slant or drag. The problem is that man coverage in madden is just horrendous and needs to be reworked and make it where ratings matter let alone the sliders... As is now 100 man coverage should mean they can defend all routes 90-100% of the time. 100 should be CB coverage boss mode. I had to have all coverage sliders at 100 and it was still too easy to pass for me. The sliders need to be spread out more IMO...

[Aestis]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

The problem isn't the ratings of a player in man coverage. You could have a guy with 100 man coverage rating with 99 speed with man coverage slider and pass reaction maxed at 100 and a wr with 1 in route running and 50 in speed and the CB still can't stop an out route or curl route let alone a slant or drag. The problem is that man coverage in madden is just horrendous and needs to be reworked and make it where ratings matter let alone the sliders... As is now 100 man coverage should mean they can defend all routes 90-100% of the time. 100 should be CB coverage boss mode. I had to have all coverage sliders at 100 and it was still too easy to pass for me. The sliders need to be spread out more IMO...

I somewhat agree, however: a good CB with strong MCV + Press with the proper shading (inside or underneath) & in man press coverage will make throwing that curl quite risky. Yes you'll get some completions, but there's an INT risk there.

Slants will eventually be open, you are right... but a strong user patrolling the middle of the field with a LB or S can often close that option down. In theory they just move on to the next read, but in practice, with realistic pass rush sliders, if the QB has been staring down that one WR knowing he's facing man and will eventually have him open on the slant, between a successful delay from press plus an extra delay from a user defender stepping in front, often they are flustered enough and you get a sack, as they aren't really working down their read progression.

Same for say corner routes or post routes. A strong defensive user with some coverage adjustments dropping a guy into an unexpected spot on the field can shut down outs or posts. Not every play, they're going to complete some passes. But as a bend-don't-break, give up FGs but not TDs kind of defense, man can be excellent and actually superior to zones in many situations at a higher level.

That leaves drags, which are almost always open vs man, you are right. But again if you have the proper personnel (I do think man is extremely personnel dependent), that 3 yd completion will usually result in an immediate tackle for...3 yds. I got quite a lot of stops on 3rd & 3 or 3rd & 4 where an opponent hit the open drag only to be stopped on their side of the field for a 4th & 1.

A real advantage of man when played well is it's just tougher to predict who's going to be open. Lots of common go-to routes (verticals or almost any TE route) can be easily snuffed in man without any user help. Like anything, it's beatable of course, but I would contend that man is at least as good and probably a bit better than zone in many situations.

[NDAlum]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

I have never felt shading have any type of impact on the outcome of a play.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

I somewhat agree, however: a good CB with strong MCV + Press with the proper shading (inside or underneath) & in man press coverage will make throwing that curl quite risky. Yes you'll get some completions, but there's an INT risk there.

Slants will eventually be open, you are right... but a strong user patrolling the middle of the field with a LB or S can often close that option down. In theory they just move on to the next read, but in practice, with realistic pass rush sliders, if the QB has been staring down that one WR knowing he's facing man and will eventually have him open on the slant, between a successful delay from press plus an extra delay from a user defender stepping in front, often they are flustered enough and you get a sack, as they aren't really working down their read progression.

Same for say corner routes or post routes. A strong defensive user with some coverage adjustments dropping a guy into an unexpected spot on the field can shut down outs or posts. Not every play, they're going to complete some passes. But as a bend-don't-break, give up FGs but not TDs kind of defense, man can be excellent and actually superior to zones in many situations at a higher level.

That leaves drags, which are almost always open vs man, you are right. But again if you have the proper personnel (I do think man is extremely personnel dependent), that 3 yd completion will usually result in an immediate tackle for...3 yds. I got quite a lot of stops on 3rd & 3 or 3rd & 4 where an opponent hit the open drag only to be stopped on their side of the field for a 4th & 1.

A real advantage of man when played well is it's just tougher to predict who's going to be open. Lots of common go-to routes (verticals or almost any TE route) can be easily snuffed in man without any user help. Like anything, it's beatable of course, but I would contend that man is at least as good and probably a bit better than zone in many situations.

I'm talking more about the CPU ai not playing a user online. But man vs a user with slants and crosses is really all you need to do mixed in with tight end out routes in 16 at least. Yes, users can take something away but you know if you take something away you give something else up. Test it vs CPU. Then tell me no issues with the CPU ai. Can we play 16 head to head and you play man against me :-) Then tell me it's a defense you can play 10% of the time vs a user. Sure it's usable on 3rd and longs when most players need streaks/verts etc... Sure it works as a surprise mix of play calling if you call a ton of zones. Even the press is bad. I could throw immediately as my player breaks the press animation and he's open 9/10 times. I'm just hoping its tuned like the zones this year...

[Senor Tortilla]

Re: Zone Teams At a Disadvantage

I've found shading to play some role in safety play, especially whether or not they're playing inside or outside. Can't count the number of times that my safeties have been beat deep in Cover 2 either up the seam or on the outside. Really discouraging that many zone schemes often result in a 1v1 matchup further upfield.

I've had much better luck playing Man against the CPU, they'll pick apart zone for days, though obviously when playing against another person, mix up man and zone for best results.

There will be very little stopping drags and slants in man, but as previously stated you can let up fewer major gains, and hold them to 4th and short situations. Which are obviously preferred assuming you're playing someone who punts on 4th.

What I prefer is punishing low crossing routes instead with a user LB or safety right in the box. Its usually apparent early in the play which option the offense is looking at, just seeing which WR has the biggest step against the CB, then position yourself accordingly. You can also get some picks against the slant route combos, by faking to follow one option, then coming back across the other. This is especially helpful when there is a lot of traffic in the box and the WR/CBs get caught up on LBs. If the offense sees you "lurking" for the same routes over and over again, it may dissuade them from calling those plays.