Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

When it gets over simplified to "get rid of the arcade MK hit stuns LOL", the problem is easily misunderstood, and you risk people interpreting it literally, and then we end up back in UFC 1 territory where nothing would stop your opponent and you just stand and trade forever with no consequences.

Sorry, I'm not sure if you are still understanding the MK or Tekken comparison. (Not trying to be sarcastic) It isn't the hit stuns so much as the repetitiveness of with which you can do these combos. They look the same, they feel the same. So you get used to using these combos as like exchanges knowing that they will have a certain outcome. That is why people say it feels like an arcade game. I've said many times since I started complaining about it myself that changing the actual reactions to become random, like rock types were in the past, then you wouldn't have the loops people use.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Sorry, I'm not sure if you are still understanding the MK or Tekken comparison. (Not trying to be sarcastic) It isn't the hit stuns so much as the repetitiveness of with which you can do these combos. They look the same, they feel the same. So you get used to using these combos as like exchanges knowing that they will have a certain outcome. That is why people say it feels like an arcade game. I've said many times since I started complaining about it myself that changing the actual reactions to become random, like rock types were in the past, then you wouldn't have the loops people use.

They are never going to be random.

That's the worst possible option.

It needs to be more complex, not random.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

They are never going to be random.

That's the worst possible option.

It needs to be more complex, not random.

More complex would be fine as long as the same result didn't happen every time. That is the problem. When you know combo sequences that work the same every time, you might as well put that as a move in the game.

Not trying to be difficult or anything. This irritates me because it takes away from the feeling of the game. When people don't use them, I love the game. When they do, I just shake my head. It even comes to a point where you feel you have to use these combos too to stay competitive.

[Haz____]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

They are never going to be random.

That's the worst possible option.

It needs to be more complex, not random.

He doesn't mean the stun itself, but the animation associated with it.

The same animation happening 100% of the time, is what makes the stun-chain combos work.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

He doesn't mean the stun itself, but the animation associated with it.

The same animation happening 100% of the time, is what makes the stun-chain combos work.

Exactly. The hit stuns could always happen.

[MaccaC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Catching the beginning of the animation, for sure yes.

The rest, probably not. It's not a significant enough factor compared to everything else except in the most extreme cases.

But your reply kind of gets to my point.

You don't seem to be against hit stuns.

You want more complexity in how they are achieved.

That's the feedback I want to hear.

When it gets over simplified to "get rid of the arcade MK hit stuns LOL", the problem is easily misunderstood, and you risk people interpreting it literally, and then we end up back in UFC 1 territory where nothing would stop your opponent and you just stand and trade forever with no consequences.

If you want more one punch power, asking to remove hit stuns from the game run completely counter to that.

I'm not against hit stuns in the current environment because as you've mentioned it feels like the only singular thing that separates the stand up from this and UFC1.

I also don't think the MK/Tekken comparisons are fair or accurate, however I don't agree that the other mitigating factors aren't important enough to include in the game in fact I think the more elements added (direction of movement, power hand/foot, timing, how set you are) make for an overall more nuanced and more enjoyable striking experience.

In my opinion every strike should actually matter, it doesn't feel like that a lot of the time, I throw the jab because its required to set up the second hit of a combination not because I feel like the jab is the best punch for that specific situation.

[Boiler569]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

The big problem is not the hit stuns ... it's the combo MULTIPLIER that causes them!!! and not well timed single strikes or kicks.

this is definitely at the root of the issue

As GPD said -- hit stuns are pretty much the same as stopping power, sorta --- but one of the only ways to consistently get hit stuns is throwing together combos.

This in of itself is not necessarily bad!....combos are a big part of fighting....but certain combos have a much higher chance of a hit stun, and it's very repeatable/arcadey/predictable

And certain combos give a near 100% chance for hit stuns; whereas other combos, even though they seem just as legit/powerful, don't have that same chance. So 'hardcore' fighters end up trying to just pull off a few standardized, 'overpowered' combos, over and over and over

And most important IMO --- too reliant on combo multiplier, rather than perfect timing of a huge one-shot counter, etc

As Morgan said --- a more physics-based approach would help; with momentum, vulnerability windows, etc

I think we're all onto something here so I'll step back and keep watching haha

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

this is definitely at the root of the issue

As GPD said -- hit stuns are pretty much the same as stopping power, sorta --- but one of the only ways to consistently get hit stuns is throwing together combos.

This in of itself is not necessarily bad!....combos are a big part of fighting....but certain combos have a much higher chance of a hit stun, and it's very repeatable/arcadey/predictable

And certain combos give a near 100% chance for hit stuns; whereas other combos, even though they seem just as legit/powerful, don't have that same chance. So 'hardcore' fighters end up trying to just pull off a few standardized, 'overpowered' combos, over and over and over

And most important IMO --- too reliant on combo multiplier, rather than perfect timing of a huge one-shot counter, etc

As Morgan said --- a more physics-based approach would help; with momentum, vulnerability windows, etc

I think we're all onto something here so I'll step back and keep watching haha

I think vulnerability windows are a big, big part of it.

And it's near criminal that we didn't adopt that from EA MMA.

[SUGATA]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Not being sarcastic at all.

Hit stun in the game is when you play a hit reaction that stops your current action, and prevents any new action from starting for a certain number of frames.

Stopping power, or the ability to punish someone through timing or a good setup or whatever, is...what? a hit reaction that stops their current action and prevents them from starting a new action for a certain number of frames?

Hit stun - is an immobility (stopping his current action and then during hits stun duration impossible to make any move including Block) for stunned opponent.

Strike's stopping power - is the ability of EVERY strike to cause Hit stun when clearly landed. More powerful strike and/or landed on Counter window = more Hit stun duration.

Here is examples of the lack of stopping power in UFC 2:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...a-ufc-2-a.html

Here is how to fix it in UFC 3:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Hit stun - is an immobility (impossible to make any move includes Block) for stunned opponent.

Strike's stopping power - is the ability of EVERY strike to cause Hit stun when clearly landed. More powerful strike and landed on Counter window = more Hit stun duration.

To me, hit stun = the type of reaction you get from a jab or straight landed flush that temporarily allows your block to drop.

Hit reaction = the dramatic animations from more powerful strikes. More time unable to block. Enough so that another strike can land that can do the same thing as well.

[SUGATA]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

To me, hit stun = the type of reaction you get from a jab or straight landed flush that temporarily allows your block to drop.

Hit reaction = the dramatic animations from more powerful strikes. More time unable to block. Enough so that another strike can land that can do the same thing as well.

Hm,... what is the difference from my description?)

[Boiler569]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

I think vulnerability windows are a big, big part of it.

And it's near criminal that we didn't adopt that from EA MMA.

it's ok, perfect focus for UFC 3

[Lake the striker]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Not being sarcastic at all.

Hit stun in the game is when you play a hit reaction that stops your current action, and prevents any new action from starting for a certain number of frames.

Stopping power, or the ability to punish someone through timing or a good setup or whatever, is...what? a hit reaction that stops their current action and prevents them from starting a new action for a certain number of frames?

Stopping power and spamming aren’t the main problems, they are symptoms of a major underlying issue within the game.

The games biggest issue by far is how ridiculously limited it's training mode is. I like the fact that we have different AI options, that’s great, but there is no optional frame data display, no optional CPU response mode, no optional damage output display, no optional record mode e.t.c. no nothing.

With a frame data display, CPU response mode and record mode alone, I bet that most semi dedicated players would learn how to punish the spam they're complaining about effectively and you would hear a lot less complaining.

Right now you can only test guaranteed damage, counter damage and punishment in training if you have two controllers and someone else is willing to test the mechanics of the game with you, which is incredibly inconvenient and time consuming.

[fishingtime]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

Hm,... what is the difference from my description?)

You use hit stun in the definition of the other. One is small to me. The other is big. Stun is a small amount of time. Hit reactions are large amounts of time unable to control your fighter.

[HereticGabriel]

Re: Martial mind posts combos that abuse hit stun

I love the part of the stun that stops an action.. Pop someone with a straight as they start to go for a kick or body knee, etc and stun them.. That's great. It's the over dramatic reaction from th 3rd and 4th hit that guarantee a free hit. How does doing a 1-2 leg/body kick give you a free unblockable 1-2 more hits?