Madden 17 OS Community Rosters (Xbox)

[chunt04]

I have been thinking about rating scales and systems since the announcement of fully editable players in franchise and came up with the following. Now, this is just a thought and would require a team of people to work on it, but I feel this would create a fully comprehensive and workable roster for franchise mode (similar to what the OSFM roster is for The Show). I figured that we could come up with teams of members here at OS to do rosters for both XB1 and PS4 so no one would be left out.


In my research I found that Profootballfocus.com has a player grading system, you can find a few links here:

How They Grade:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/

Grading Info:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/why-subscribe-to-player-grades/?in_type=banner&in_name=hd-grades

My thinking was to rate all current NFL players to this scale and see how the game would play out. I feel that this would help spread out ratings across the board and help elite/ superstar players to really stand out. In the "How They Grade" section, they define each players rating as such

0-59 > Replaceable
60-69 > Backup
70-84 > Starter
85-89 > Pro Bowler
90-100 > Elite



Editing of the rosters would need to include the following:
- Updated Transactions
- Edited Depth Charts
- Created Missing Players
- Updated Player Contracts (if possible)

For The Rookies:
I like the idea someone already proposed here of making an updated list of real rookies per draft class year and ranking them. The fictional players on the draft board ranking would then be edited to that rookie. This is where we would need to have our own ratings scale to work within. Everything could be laid out in the thread so players can edit the rookies within their own franchises. I figure spreadsheets would be best here. Anybody have any suggestions? As long as the ratings fell within the set parameter above, we would have real rookies within that spread ratings system.

For Sliders:
I feel that we could come up with another slider maker to adjust sliders accordingly to the roster set. If we worked together as a community, no one person would have to take on this amount of work themselves.

Please feel free to discuss below. What are your thoughts? Anyone interested? I know the grading on profootballfocus.com costs money, but I would be willing to pay that price and share through DMs to the teams working on the roster. I would not be able to share that info publicly, as I do not want to have any issues with PFF.

[Picante19]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Do you guys think they will add historic teams to the game?

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I doubt it. I think we would have seen that mentioned by now. That's why I want to focus on creating a solid roster to work with in franchise mode. Madden needs something along the lines of SimWorld's rosters for 2k or the OSFM rosters for The Show. That's why's I'd like to get this started with a good group of members here.


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[Spartan Warrior]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

They won't do historic rosters. It's too expensive to get rights to all the players. They do classic teams in the NBA game, but that only requires them to get five guys per team (backups are usually fake players). And even in that case they'll have guys like Kareem and Chris Webber missing.

So for Madden even if you were only going to have the starters that's still 22 players per team. They used to have the players unnamed but then they got sued by Jim Brown and a bunch of the other players who were getting ripped off.

A game with a ton of classic NFL teams is probably the #1 thing I would ever want, but it's not possible.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I agree. Just to be clear, what i am proposing is not historic rosters. I'm only looking to do the current roster for the upcoming NFL season. Are any current roster makers interested in coming up with something? In my eyes, doing something like this with ratings from actual scouts and people close to the game is the way to do it. The fact that PFF actually grades on a 0-100 scale is the icing on the cake, as I don't think it would be all that difficult to implement.

Best case scenario, this could become something similar to the FBG rosters, but on a scale that is easier to work with in Franchise modes.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Alright, after much thought, I've started to believe that maybe I haven't fully written this in a way that people are grasping.

All I'm looking to create is a team for each system that's willing to work together on a ratings system to start to put together a roster that has edited everything within the ratings parameters and tiers implemented by the developers. These ratings would need to be distributed well across the league in a way that allows real skill to stand out. All ratings would need to be backed by some real life data whether it be Dan (the founder of FBG) or another's site, providing real rankings and ratings of pro football athletes. I am not stuck to the Pro Football Focus idea or the use of any other site. I just used it as an example and wanted to get the conversation rolling.


There would need to be testing with the new release of the game to figure out how the new tier system works. We would have to adjust our ratings scales to provide the most diverse range of animations that the game can provide. We would also need to have research put into real life rookies and the creation of spreadsheets for manipulating their ratings, as this has to be posted to the thread and put out to the public (users would have to input the rookie edits themselves, without editable and shareable draft classes).

Does anyone have any feedback or interest in trying something like this? I know many users contribute to rosters in the other sports games. This is all open for discussion/ criticism and I am willing to work as a team.

You can find more discussion on this topic within this thread:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...-madden-4.html

[angels eclipse7]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I would love if you guys did this. I used to do this for the entire NFL and it took forever to do every NFL team. But your proposed scale is exactly the same scale I used.

To be a little more detailed with the backups though, I had my scale:

60-69: good backup player (you would feel comfortable with this player if your starter went down.
50-59: your average backup
40-49: a weak NFL backup, but still worthy of being on an NFL team if for nothing else, special teams
30-39: your average practice squad level player
20-29: your average NFL camp body. Somebody who might be on a team for preseason, but wouldn't make a team or even practice squad.


After stretching every team to this standard of player ratings, I cannot express to you how fun Madden was. If your starting corner went down and you had to bring in a 50 rated backup to guard Julio Jones, you really had to adjust your gameplan. Elite players become more elite and weak backups become bigger liabilities. It makes for amazing gameplay and for great franchise play as finding solid depth becomes more difficult.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Angels, I like that scale. That's awesome. How did you determine your ratings? Do you have any scales that you used? Also, what system are you playing on?


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[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I agree that it also adds another level to game planning, deciding who to attack on offense and covering up weaknesses on defense.


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[angels eclipse7]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Angels, I like that scale. That's awesome. How did you determine your ratings? Do you have any scales that you used? Also, what system are you playing on?


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Thanks, Chunt. I play on Xbox.


Yeah, so basically my conversion is centered around lowering players overall rating. I set it up where elite players only get slightly touched while backups get lowered a lot. Here is my overall rating conversion:

old overall rating - new overall rating
99 - 99
98 - 96
97 - 94
96 - 93
95 - 92
94 - 91
93 - 90
92 - 88
91 - 87
90 - 85
89 - 84
88 - 83
87 - 82
86 - 81
85 - 80
84 - 78
83 - 76
82 - 74
81 - 72
80 - 70
79 - 68
78 - 67
77 - 65
76 - 64
75 - 62
74 - 61
73 - 60
72 - 58
71 - 55
70 - 53
69 - 50
68 - 48
67 - 45
65 - 42
64 - 38
63 - 35
62 - 32
61 - 31
60 - 30
59 - 29
58 - 28
57 - 27
56 - 26
55 - 25
54 - 24
53 - 23
52 - 22
51 - 21
50 - 20
49 - 19
48 - 18
47 - 17
46 - 16
45 - 15
44 - 14
43 - 13
42 - 12


Now, to actually convert these player to their lower ratings, I have developed a different system for different positions. I have been working on this since Madden 2011 and feel like I have it in a pretty good place. For one, I basically never touch physical attributes such as speed, agility, acceleration, and strength. I do, however, lower every player’s jumping by exactly 30 points except for offensive lineman, kickers, and punters. This to me, has lead to extremely improved and more realistic/fun passing and avoids linebackers jumping passes over the middle at an unrealistic rate as has been a problem in Maddens past. However, I haven’t played Madden since Madden 25, so if linebackers swatting/intercepting balls at an unrealistic rate is no longer a problem in Madden, please ignore that part. Outside of that, I also never lower a player’s jumping ability. I’ll still lower a player’s speed/agility/acceleration at my own discretion if I feel like EA just got it wrong, but for the most part, I avoid touching that rating.

Quarterbacks:
So, here is my system for quarterbacks. For every 5 overall points that a quarterback is lowered, I will lower his throw power by 1. So if I am lowering a 96 rated quarterback to 93, I don’t touch his throw power. If I am lowering a 62 overall quarterback to 32 overall, and his throw power is 81, I will lower his throw power by 6 and make it 75. Because he is being lowered overall 30 points, and 30 divided by 5 is 6. If I am lowering a 80 overall quarterback to 70, and his throw power is 85, I would lower his throw power to 83. He is losing 10 overall points, so his throw power will be lowered by 2. I lower a quarterbacks awareness the exact same amount as I am lowering his overall. A quarterback being converted from 86 to 81 overall would lose 5 awareness points. I then lower all of the accuracy ratings evenly across the board until the quarterback hits his new rating.

So it’s:
-1 throw power for every -5 overall.
-1 awareness point for every - 1 overall.
then dump his accuracy evenly until he hits his new desired overall rating.

HBs:
For half backs, I start by lowering two attributes. One is CARRYING. For every 5 points you lower a running back overall, lower his CARRYING by 1. Two is CATCHING. For every 3 overall points you lower a player, lower his CATCHING by 1. After that, lower the player’s awareness, trucking, elusiveness, ball carrier vision, stiff arm, spin move, juke move, catch in traffic, route running, spectacular catch, and release evenly across the board until he reaches his new desired overall rating.

FBs:
Full backs are the exact same as half backs in lowering their CATCHING AND CARRYING. The only difference with fullbacks is to also lower their blocking attributes in addition to their awareness, carrying and catching attributes evenly across the board until you reach their desired new rating.

WRs:
Wide receivers are the same as half backs.

TEs:
Tight ends are the same as full backs.

Offensive lineman:
For every 5 overall points you lower a player, lower his strength by 1. Outside of that, lower the player’s awareness and blocking attributes evenly across the board until he reached his new desired rating.

Defensive players:
Things are a little more consistent on the defensive side. For every 3 overall points you lower a player, lower his tackling and catching by 1. After that, lower his awareness, hit power, power move, finesse move, block shedding, pursuit, play recognition, man coverage, zone coverage, and press evenly until he reached his new desired rating.

Kickers/Punters:
For every 5 overall points you lower him, lower his kick power by 1. After that, lower his awareness and accuracy evenly until he reaches his new desired rating.


I think that covers it. I hope this helps. I feel I have gotten amazing results with this in the past, and hopefully somebody will find this useful.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I like that idea a lot man. I like that you target the skills mores than the physical attributes, as a player can still be a decent athlete but may lack the skills necessary to play in the league.

I do need to find a reliable site or two that does some good player ranking based off of stat analysis. I really want this whole thing to be backed by real life data. We also need to start forming teams of editors to get the entire thing implemented into the game. It's just too much work for one person to take on themselves.

I may wait for Dan's new site to come out. He said that players would be graded based off increments of 10, so it seems easy enough to translate over to ratings. His site will have real data from scouts, so I'm pretty excited about that.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Angels, are you buying the game for Xbox this year?


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[angels eclipse7]

Yeah I think I will this year. The only reason I haven't in recent years is because not being able to edit players in franchise mode is a deal breaker for me.

[angels eclipse7]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

I like that idea a lot man. I like that you target the skills mores than the physical attributes, as a player can still be a decent athlete but may lack the skills necessary to play in the league.

I do need to find a reliable site or two that does some good player ranking based off of stat analysis. I really want this whole thing to be backed by real life data. We also need to start forming teams of editors to get the entire thing implemented into the game. It's just too much work for one person to take on themselves.

I may wait for Dan's new site to come out. He said that players would be graded based off increments of 10, so it seems easy enough to translate over to ratings. His site will have real data from scouts, so I'm pretty excited about that.

Also, since you mentioned ratings based on stat analysis...

I also do my own roster progression completely for quarterbacks, half backs, wide receivers, and tight ends. I used to do all positions, but quit mostly because I didn't have time, but also a little because I realized my logic on certain defensive positions were flawed.

But my system works like this:

For one, there are certain rules in place:

Like:
a player in the 90s can only go up one overall rating no matter how good a game he has.
a player in the 80s can only go up a maximum of two points
a player in the 70s can only go up a maximum of three points
a player in the 60s can only go up a maximum of four points
a player in the 50s can only go up a maximum of five points
a player in the 40s can only go up a maximum of six points
a player in the 30s can only go up a maximum of 7 points
etc.
And all players go down one point for any game that is less than their overall warrants. If their production in a game is significantly lower than their overall warrants, then they go down two points. No player can go down more than 2 points for one game except quarterbacks.

So, for quarterbacks:
A quarterback's passer rating is crucial, here. My original conversion chart for spreading ratings is also crucial, here. I originally lowered a 75 rated quarterback to the overall rating of 62. So a 62 rated quarterback needs a 75 passer rating to break even. That is where the line is drawn. If he gets a 76 passer rating, the 62 rated quarterback will get boosted to 63 overall. If he gets a 74 passer rating, his overall rating will drop down to 61. But what about quarterbacks who run? I take this into account. For every yard a QB runs for, he gets a 0.1 boost to his passer rating. So if rushes for 50 yards, he gets 5 points added to his passer rating. If he rushes for a touchdown, he gets 2.5 points added to his passer rating. If he fumbles the ball, but his team recovers, he loses 1.5 points on his passer rating. If he fumbles the ball and the opposing team recovers, he loses 3 points to his passer rating.

How does a quarterback go up multiple points?
With quarterbacks, I use increments of 25. So if EJ Manuel is rated 62, he needs a 75 rating to break even. If his passer rating is 25 points above that (or passer rating + rushing yards), then he gets another point boost. So in this example, EJ Manuel would go up 2 overall points for having a passer rating of 100. 3 points for having a passer rating of 125. And 4 points for having a passer rating of 150+. So if EJ Manuel is rated 62 and has a perfect game of 158.3, his overall rating would rise to 66. This has been my system for quarterbacks, and I feel I have gotten great results with it. I love having a system like this that is completely math based, because it leaves no room for bias. I just stick to the system and see where things land. It also rewards consistency with players.


I just thought I would share my system since you mentioned it.

[chunt04]

Re: Possible Idea for Madden 17 community rosters

Angels, I like that. Very cool system and approach. If I decide to do something similar, would you be interested in helping edit?


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