EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

**REDDy4war** · 07-10-2016, 07:51 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by SUGATA

Full Body Hit Reaction (FBHR) - is not a Health event animation; is a Stun animation, which interrupts (crushing, stopping power) opponent’s strike, and prevents another strike from happening because of hit stun, opponent during FBHR (hit stun) is vulnerable to attacks (one strike usually as follow up).

FBHR pros:
- stop opponent's attack
- during any FBHR opponent can not perform any action except Block/Parry/GB
- during 5 level FBHR opponent can not any action at all (even Block/Parry/GB) + 5 level FBHR break opponent's Blocking

FBHR cons:
- during some FBHR animations (especially 5 level FBHR) the opponent is pushed away from my range or hide his head, so i can not to reach him by my strike.<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

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 FBHR is CAUSED BY:
- large total damage Strike (approximately 4 dmg).

FBHR LEVELS:
FBHR has several levels.
Larger total damage Strike – causes higher level FBHR.

The same Combo/Strike with the same fighter in different conditions (SA, Damage multipliers) can cause different levels FBHR. Example with “Straight, Head kick combo”: Reset position = 1<sup>st</sup> level FBHR, SA = 5<sup>th</sup> level FBHR.

Maximum 5<sup>th</sup> level FBHR – has the longest FBHR animation, NO any actions available during its animation (even Block, Parry, GB) and is cancelling Blocking (break Block) = guaranteed (unblockable/free) Strike possibility.

ALL 5<sup>th</sup> level FBHR has the animation that take him out take him out of range or hide his head, Exception: Leg kick – allow for follow up Head kick during his 5<sup>th</sup> level FBHR.
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How to cause Full Body Hit Reactions (FBHR) in EA UFC 2 consistently (aka script):

1 step - Know strike's damage:

Category: EA Forums English | EA Forums

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/10203031.page

Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.

2 step - Full body hit reaction ("Hit stun") launches when opponent is getting 4 dmg.
as you see above nearly no strikes that cause 4 dmg (max = 3.5)
So, you need to increase damage by 2 ways:
1 way - land this strike in Counter window (in 3 sec after Parry, Sway, Dodge, Whiff)
2 way - land this strike at the end of the Combo, more strike in combo before this strike = more DMG multiplier bonus
So, for Strong strike like Backfist you need only one Jab to cause FBHR. For Hook you need previously land 2-3 Jabs.

Combo rules:
- switch L-R sides for the same strike type (punch , kick)
- never perform the same side and type strike twice. exception: Jab, Jab.
- max Combo length = 5 strikes
- Combo resets by block, whiff.

3 step - Go to Practice and test your Combo setups for this ending powerful strike:
- after successful side step (opponent whiffed, you get CW) you dont need a setup strike, you immediately launch your powerful strike for ex Elbow to deal FBHR even w/o combo.

___________________________________

 STRIKING & DAMAGE MECHANICS in STAND UP:

1) Strike SPEED depends on:
- my fighter’s attributes
- my Stamina
- not depends on my striking limb’s Health

2) Strike DAMAGE depends on:
- both fighter’s attributes
- my Stamina (more Stamina – more damage & FBHR)
- opponent’s Stamina (less Stamina – more damage & FBHR)
- not depends on my striking limb’s Health
- final total Strike damage depends also on additional Damage multipliers from: 1. Combo multiplier (CM) 2. Counter window (CW) 3. Physics driven damage with the right timing (when opponent is moving toward my strike).

> The best conditions for my Strike is [when I have SA over the opponent – the more Stamina difference/advantage amount the better].
SA - Stamina advantage (i have more Stamina than opponent).


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1) Strike SPEED depends on:
- my Stamina
- not depends on my fighter’s attributes
- not depends on my striking limb’s Health

2) Strike DAMAGE depends on:
- both fighter’s attributes
- my Stamina (more Stamina – more damage & FBHR)
- opponent’s Stamina (less Stamina – more damage & FBHR)
- not depends on my striking limb’s Health
- final total Strike damage NOT depends also on additional Damage multipliers from: 1. Combo multiplier (CM) 2. Counter window (CW) 3. Physics driven damage with the right timing (when opponent is moving toward my strike) – because in Clinch/Ground does NOT exist 1, 2, 3.
> The best conditions for my Strike is [when I have SA over the opponent – the more Stamina difference/advantage amount the better].

3) In Clinch/Ground striking does NOT exist: Combo multiplier (CM), Counter window, Physics driven damage (when opponent is moving toward my strike).
(Example: Standing (Stand up) hook, and hook in Single Collar land about the same amount of damage. But Standing hook can be buffed by being thrown in a combo (for CM), or as a counter, or by physics damage with the right timing. None of those conditions & damage bonuses exist in the Clinch/Ground).

4) Reasons to switch Left-Right strikes in Clinch/Ground:
- mix ups to avoid Arm traps in Posture up
- target specific side to damage specific arm during opponent’s Blocking (to break Block sooner)

> Switch/mixing up Left-Right Strikes in Clinch/Ground for: avoid Arm trap in Posture up, and to strike the most damaged opponent’s Hand to break his Block sooner.
4) GnP strike speed (Clinch and Ground) - is determined by Stamina only, not attributes!

__________________________________________________ _____

QUESTIONS:

1) What is wrong in this info above?

2) Strike speed in Clinch & Ground - not depends on my fighter’s attributes but only on my Stamina? And not depends on CM and CW and physics driven dmg?

3) What affects the damaged limb (hand, leg)?

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Hell no dude those hit stuns gotta go your idea sucks thats y no on commented because no one agrees with you

**Ksearyback** · 07-10-2016, 09:37 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Sugata, did you ever get a response, or figure out, the difference between heavy hook and normal hook (or whatever the certain punches which had a modified version).

You pointed out that, for example, an upper cut and a modified heavy upper cut had the exact same risk/reward but heavy was a slower animation. Why would anyone use the modified strikes with an equal but faster animation version? Was this a mistake or an oversight?

**SUGATA** · 07-11-2016, 03:36 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by Ksearyback

Sugata, did you ever get a response, or figure out, the difference between heavy hook and normal hook (or whatever the certain punches which had a modified version).

You pointed out that, for example, an upper cut and a modified heavy upper cut had the exact same risk/reward but heavy was a slower animation. Why would anyone use the modified strikes with an equal but faster animation version? Was this a mistake or an oversight?

1) Modified L1 strikes has more dmg and stamina cost, they reset CM and cannot be boosted by dashes. So they better to be used at the end of combos.
2) I don't know the difference between different Hooks not by L1 (normal, heavy, powered hooks) except the different animation. Does them have different dmg/stamina cost now? Because in UFC 1 thy were equal.

**oshighwayman** · 07-11-2016, 05:09 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

can u explain strike intercept and which strikes beat which strike? (let s say hook beats jab or something like that)

**SUGATA** · 07-11-2016, 07:16 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by oshighwayman

can u explain strike intercept and which strikes beat which strike? (let s say hook beats jab or something like that)

Very good question!
But i still have not tested it enough.

The basic rule: any strike landed on early startup phase of the opponent's strike will intercept (crush/stop) it.

But:
- not any
- may be different intercept results (like KD by leg kick vs kick for ex)

More info about CRUSHING (not via FBHR) strike vs strike and strike vs action (sway for ex) in the game from devs or players are welcome...

**Solid_Altair** · 01-16-2017, 12:13 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Very good thread. Great work!

I'd just like to emphasize that the FBHR actually depend on damage and that the resistance stats do not apply. That means that you can get the reactions more easily in heavier weight classes.

Another detail is that the first degree of FBHR is very discreet. You can barely tell it apart from an additive reaction (one that is only added on top of the current aimations and doesn't stop the guy). So, to test if you can stop the guy with something, do it by actually throwing something with the other gu. Don't just hit him and look for a noticeable reaction.

**SUGATA** · 01-16-2017, 01:53 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

Very good thread. Great work!

I'd just like to emphasize that the FBHR actually depend on damage and that the resistance stats do not apply. That means that you can get the reactions more easily in heavier weight classes.

Another detail is that the first degree of FBHR is very discreet. You can barely tell it apart from an additive reaction (one that is only added on top of the current aimations and doesn't stop the guy). So, to test if you can stop the guy with something, do it by actually throwing something with the other gu. Don't just hit him and look for a noticeable reaction.

The most important element in all fightings - CRUSHING, i.e. your strike crushes/stops the opponent's strike on its execution (startup) phase which allow you to counter cross opponent's spam. it becomes possible when:
- i have Striking advantage over the opponent (my action will start earlier and then land sooner than his)
- some my strike has evasive properties (for ex ducking strikes), so the opponent;s strike is landing earlier but is missing above me.

In EA UFC 1-2 now as it seems to me there are no real crushing at all, because receiving hit on my startup does not stop my strike (aka "No stopping power"). Just check gifs in this thread:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...a-ufc-2-a.html

But sometimes 1st opponent's strike interrupts my 2nd follow up strike (boosted by CM after 1st hit) and iterrupts my combo. We heard " Strike intercept – Strikes landed within the opponents initial wind up phase of a strike will halt the opponent from completing their strike".

This "interrupting" is unstable and not reliable.
Why?
Because there are NO HIT STUNS! So, as a results there are no strike advantage/disadvantage.
Listen up:
I successfully landed my 1st strike (hit), then land my 2nd strike (hit), then i "wind up" my 3rd strike powerful strike (boosted by CM for huge dmg)....
.... the opponent just strike me on 3rd strike initial phase and INTERRUPTS my combo! ... the opponent, who received TWO clear hits must to be hit stunned (strike disadvanatge) and THE ONLY option, which must to be possible to him must to be a DEFENSE (by Block, step, bwd dash, sway) ,but not attack by strike!
.....the opponent's by button mashing/spamming strikes interrupts my combo and break my plan and strategy.
So, there are NO MORE STRATEGY in stand up game because every planned combo can be "interrupted" by the opponent, w/o Hit stuns.

Implemented by GCs "interrupting strikes" feature in early patch is useless w/o hit stuns and Striking advantage.

= this is the MAIN ISSUE OF THE CURRENT STAND UP STRIKING =

How to solve this:
- implement Hit stuns after every landed hit, hitstun's effect depends on hit's dmg
- implement Striking advantage (after dealing hit, successful evade or block) and Striking disadvantage (afterreceiving hit, failed evade, missed/blocked my strike).
More details here:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html

**Solid_Altair** · 01-16-2017, 06:36 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

I mostly agree with you. But if they had like... one patch left, I wouldn't want them to put full stopping power at everything. Such stopping power would have to be tuned carefully, to last the proper amount of time. And this whole thing would likely make Jon Jones and other tall fighters even more OP. The relative lack of stopping power now is the saving grace of shorter fighters.

Having stopping power as the rule would mean a totally different paradigm for the stand up. It's hardly something that could be patched in.

**SUGATA** · 01-17-2017, 03:23 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

I mostly agree with you. But if they had like... one patch left, I wouldn't want them to put full stopping power at everything. Such stopping power would have to be tuned carefully, to last the proper amount of time. And this whole thing would likely make Jon Jones and other tall fighters even more OP. The relative lack of stopping power now is the saving grace of shorter fighters.

Having stopping power as the rule would mean a totally different paradigm for the stand up. It's hardly something that could be patched in.

I really hope devs will do it (redone stand up Striking mechanics) from the scratch for UFC 3.
As I said in thread about New Striking mechanics there are also a good way to balance long and short reach fighters - by AMPLITUDE element: strike's power (so it's stopping power) is gradually changing over the distance with getting its max on the distance of fully straighted limb; so short reach fighters will have an advantage in close distance as it is irl, and vice versa.

**Solid_Altair** · 01-17-2017, 11:51 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

I think penalizing the speed and power of taller fighters would do the trick and would be a simpler solution. I wouldn't try to mess with stopping power in that way. Not only is it hard to guarantee that it would translate well in the meta (what if the taller guy ses shorter strikes and retains his stopping power?), it would be just harder to tune in general.

And can you link the thread you mentioned, please?

**SUGATA** · 01-17-2017, 05:17 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

I think penalizing the speed and power of taller fighters would do the trick and would be a simpler solution. I wouldn't try to mess with stopping power in that way. Not only is it hard to guarantee that it would translate well in the meta (what if the taller guy ses shorter strikes and retains his stopping power?), it would be just harder to tune in general.

And can you link the thread you mentioned, please?

Implementing an AMPLITUDE into new striking mechanics is very easy - by coefficient (dmg multiplier) for every strike which is changing over the limb is going straight (over the distance).

Originally posted by SUGATA

5) SHORT REACH VS LONG REACH fighters (balance):
In real physics: shorter hand > less time for it to straighten to its full length/strength (less startup then for long reach fighter the same strike type) > short reach fighters will have more faster the same strike types than long reach fighters, but also the shorter distance.
But on low stamina short reach fighter will loose his speed advantage.
Short reach fighter has SA on short distance, Long reach fighter – on long distance.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...scussions.html

Originally posted by SUGATA

I am fully agree w yr idea, even more - I've created 2 years ago a thread about how to implement this into the game for more realism and especially for more balance (pros & cons) between short and long reach fighters by Strike AMPLITUDE:
In real life the strike needs enough space for it. More space = more strike' efficiency (power). Short reach fighters (short limbs) needs less space for getting max strike efficiency- this is their pro. Long reach fighters (long limbs) needs more space for getting max strike efficiency - this is their con, but they can reach the opponent on the safe distance while they can not be reached by them - this is their pro.
Now in UFC1-2 long reach fighter has only pro w/o con, short reach had only con w/o pro, so "Jones" are abusabke in online mode, this is the issue of current Striking mechanics. And amplitude element can solve it.
Long reach fighter has long hands which needs more space to straight and gain full power
Short reach fighter has shorter hands so he gain full strike power on shorter space
So we will have balance: close distance for short reach fighters, long for long reach fighters.

More details here in my thread on EA forum:

Category: EA Forums English | EA Forums

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/10299350.page

Welcome to EA Forums, where you can chat about games with other players, help each other out, share feedback, and report issues you’re having with EA games.

GPD, please, could restore this my thread concept post from EA forum or it's gone forever?(
It would be very important element for my New stand up Striking mechanics thread (I will add this there).

How to program this in the game - very simple:
Optimal distance for max strike power = 100% of dmg,
Shorter distance = less % of strike damage proportionally.

One this thing will open for gamers a huge gameplay depth!
Effects from implementing amplitude for strikes:
1) you need to choose right distance for the reach of yr fighter
2) you need to use opponent's disadvantage distance against him (go close against long reach fighters to nerf his strikes)
3) you need to choose yr strikes appropriately to the distance to the opponent (kicks on long distance , elbow on short to get their full power)
4) You will need to change yr strike patterns depending on changed distance
5) You will need to use (combine) yr Striking w yr Footwork more smart and conscious to get max power from yr Striking and to nerf opponent's Striking .
> all these will dramatically increase gameplay depth and skill level on high ranks for the win!

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ussions-2.html

Unfortunately this thread on old EA forums is gone and even GPD could not to restore it, because old EA forums are permanently cleared.
I could re-create it, this thread is based on Amplitude and F=m*a real life principles, which as i said can be easily enough implemented into new striking for UFC 3.

> This AMPLITUDE feature is easy in implement.

**Haz____** · 01-17-2017, 05:22 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Can we just make this dude a Gamechanger already??????

He knows more about fighting game mechanics than I think anyone on these forums by far.

**Solid_Altair** · 01-17-2017, 07:52 PM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Is the amplitude about the length of the hit stun? If so, would the atatcks always cause some hit stun?

**SUGATA** · 01-18-2017, 03:07 AM

Re: EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

Originally posted by Solid_Altair

Is the amplitude about the length of the hit stun? If so, would the atatcks always cause some hit stun?

Lets continue the talk here to prevent off top:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2048662635

EA UFC 2 STRIKING and FBHR mechanics and How to use it

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