Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

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  • The JareBear
    Be Good To One Another
    • Jul 2010
    • 11560

    #61
    Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

    Originally posted by Mauer4MVP
    I'm sorry. Brady did not make Moss. That is flat out preposterous. Moss is arguably the greatest ever and at least a consensus #2.
    Not sure that's what I said.

    I said look at what Moss was doing RIGHT before, and RIGHT after Brady.

    Moss is one of my favorite players of all time, I think it is pretty clear that his production was waning a little after he set the league on fire to start his career and Brady helped jumpstart him again for a few years.
    "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

    OS Blog

    The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

    Comment

    • Yazan Gable
      Rookie
      • Aug 2014
      • 128

      #62
      Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

      Originally posted by The JareBear
      Agreed on Manning's teammates.

      As for Brady: Gronk is an All-Pro no matter where he plays, for sure, but the other cases, I mean, I don't think Ben Watson ever really set the league on fire, did he? Look at what Moss was doing right before Brady, and immediately after. Deion Branch had steep drop offs after leaving Brady, as did Wes Welker.
      Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.

      Comment

      • The JareBear
        Be Good To One Another
        • Jul 2010
        • 11560

        #63
        Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

        Originally posted by Yazan Gable
        Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.
        Isn't that my point though? Maybe I am just confused at this point.
        "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

        OS Blog

        The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

        Comment

        • The JareBear
          Be Good To One Another
          • Jul 2010
          • 11560

          #64
          Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

          Originally posted by Yazan Gable
          Randy Moss was on the mid 2000s Raiders. That is like football purgatory. If he went to any decent quarterback situation he would have been dominant. Wes Welker was still Wes Welker with Manning his first year and then the concussions took their toll on him. Wes Welker had declining Peyton Manning and was just on the Rams while everyone knows he should stop playing. Ben Watson was on the Randy Moss/Wes Welker Patriots and then went to the Cleveland Browns and then was sitting behind Jimmy Graham. He finally gets to start for the Saints and he puts up pretty good numbers again. That's probably because of Drew Brees of course, but the point with my list was that these weren't bottom of the barrel players he's used. He's had high to good picks in the draft for receivers to work with like Manning. I say this as a person who prefers Brady to Manning because I feel his offensive circumstances were overall less favorable than Peyton's, but pretending he made all his receivers is a bit much. A great QB elevates his players, and Aaron Rodgers elevated bad to mediocre this past year.
          Also, I don't think just being a high draft pick, alone, makes a player good.
          "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

          OS Blog

          The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

          Comment

          • Mauer4MVP
            MVP
            • Mar 2010
            • 2407

            #65
            Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

            Originally posted by The JareBear
            Not sure that's what I said.

            I said look at what Moss was doing RIGHT before, and RIGHT after Brady.

            Moss is one of my favorite players of all time, I think it is pretty clear that his production was waning a little after he set the league on fire to start his career and Brady helped jumpstart him again for a few years.
            And Moss helped jumpstart Brady when he got there as well. It went both ways. If it weren't for him, Brady may have always been a 26/12 TD/INT ratio type of guy.

            Who knows.

            I do agree that Brady has made players better, but I just think grouping Moss in the Welker group isn't fair to Moss' greatness.

            Comment

            • Yazan Gable
              Rookie
              • Aug 2014
              • 128

              #66
              Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

              I was disputing the idea that they made no-name players great. They had plenty of players who were expected or known to be good. They weren't street free agents from the bottom of the barrel.
              Originally posted by jwing7
              You seem to be forgetting Austin Collie, Pierre Garcon, Brandon Stokely. Decker is a good player but Manning certainly inflated his stats and got him that contract. Same with DT as well (I'm a Broncos fan btw).

              Brady had Moss for one good season. You're leaving out players like Troy Brown, Welker and Edlemen.

              Do you want to keep rattling off draft positions of players over the past 15 years or maybe admit that Brady and Manning were consistently the best regardless of what talent surrounded them (which they have had a fair amount at times). Or I guess we can make excuses for Rodgers when he had Adams (pick #53), Cobb (pick #64) and Lacy (pick #61) for most of the year.
              I disputed that they were no-name players. And I did not say Brady and Manning were bad at any point. Aaron Rodgers had a bad situation he was playing in and he still made them look decent.

              Comment

              • jwing7
                Rookie
                • Jun 2016
                • 39

                #67
                Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                Originally posted by Mauer4MVP
                Personally, I think Adams, Cobb, and Lacy are all insanely overrated.
                Me as well but I was just matching his logic on draft positions. No reason to list players like Addai and Ben Watson when talking about talent.

                Comment

                • Mauer4MVP
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 2407

                  #68
                  Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                  Let's just put it like this: New England, Green Bay, and Indianapolis have all been insanely lucky. Bledsoe to Brady. Favre to Rodgers. Manning to Luck.

                  Look at my Vikings. We haven't had a QB of that caliber since Culpepper and that was short lived. Just take comfort in the fact that you've all lucked into having back to back franchise type QBs (Bledsoe is a tier below obviously but still good).

                  Comment

                  • Yazan Gable
                    Rookie
                    • Aug 2014
                    • 128

                    #69
                    Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                    Originally posted by jwing7
                    Me as well but I was just matching his logic on draft positions. No reason to list players like Addai and Ben Watson when talking about talent.
                    I can see how that may be difficult when you don't understand I am not talking about their talent but about the idea that they took street free agents and undrafted players and made them into stars (no-names.)

                    Comment

                    • Yazan Gable
                      Rookie
                      • Aug 2014
                      • 128

                      #70
                      Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                      Originally posted by Mauer4MVP
                      Let's just put it like this: New England, Green Bay, and Indianapolis have all been insanely lucky. Bledsoe to Brady. Favre to Rodgers. Manning to Luck.

                      Look at my Vikings. We haven't had a QB of that caliber since Culpepper and that was short lived. Just take comfort in the fact that you've all lucked into having back to back franchise type QBs (Bledsoe is a tier below obviously but still good).
                      I'm a Bears fan, we went from Grossman to Cutler. Hardly luck. And you have Teddy Bridgewater who is a phenomenal quarterback who last year was gimped by his offensive scheme, offensive line and receivers.

                      Comment

                      • The JareBear
                        Be Good To One Another
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 11560

                        #71
                        Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                        Originally posted by Mauer4MVP
                        And Moss helped jumpstart Brady when he got there as well. It went both ways. If it weren't for him, Brady may have always been a 26/12 TD/INT ratio type of guy.

                        Who knows.

                        I do agree that Brady has made players better, but I just think grouping Moss in the Welker group isn't fair to Moss' greatness.
                        Brady has gone over 34+ TDs in 5 different seasons since the Moss years.

                        The relationship was clearly mutually beneficial, not sure why you are so defensive about what I said.
                        Last edited by The JareBear; 07-21-2016, 03:22 PM.
                        "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

                        OS Blog

                        The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

                        Comment

                        • DanB_DanB
                          Rookie
                          • May 2016
                          • 43

                          #72
                          Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                          Are we still complaining about Brady not being a higher overall?
                          99 Awareness, 98 short AND medium accuracy.. seems about right. Only reason his OVR isnt as high is because his athleticism and throw on run is not that great, both in real life and in Madden. It's not always about "OMG his overall isnt 99, this is BS, madden sucks at rating guys." IMO he is quite correctly rated. His 84 deep accuracy might be a little low, but judging by the amount the Pats offense is designed to go deep (not much) I am totally fine with that rating.

                          Comment

                          • The JareBear
                            Be Good To One Another
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 11560

                            #73
                            Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                            Originally posted by Yazan Gable
                            I can see how that may be difficult when you don't understand I am not talking about their talent but about the idea that they took street free agents and undrafted players and made them into stars (no-names.)
                            I concede that I was wrong about Ben Watson. I didn't realize the year he just had in NO, and the other circumstances surrounding his career.
                            "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

                            OS Blog

                            The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.

                            Comment

                            • Mauer4MVP
                              MVP
                              • Mar 2010
                              • 2407

                              #74
                              Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                              Originally posted by The JareBear
                              Brady has gone over 34+ TDs in 5 different seasons since the Moss years.

                              The relationship was clearly mutualy beneficial, not sure why you are so defensive about what I said.
                              I'm not defensive at all. And yes that's my point. Up to that great year, Brady had 0 seasons over 30 tds and 1 over 4000 yards. If it weren't for Moss, the Patriots may have never changed their approach.

                              I think it's fair to mention that.

                              Comment

                              • jwing7
                                Rookie
                                • Jun 2016
                                • 39

                                #75
                                Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Quarterbacks

                                Originally posted by Yazan Gable
                                I was disputing the idea that they made no-name players great. They had plenty of players who were expected or known to be good. They weren't street free agents from the bottom of the barrel.
                                I disputed that they were no-name players. And I did not say Brady and Manning were bad at any point. Aaron Rodgers had a bad situation he was playing in and he still made them look decent.
                                So Edlemen and Welker were can't miss prospects? Julius Thomas was a mid round project that benefited from Manning.

                                Rodgers is great. I just disagreed with you when you stated that Brady would've done worse with Rodgers cast last year.

                                Comment

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