Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

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  • Yazan Gable
    Rookie
    • Aug 2014
    • 128

    #31
    Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

    Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
    Most of the league falls into bench player or worse. And an even higher number falls into not being able to make it in the NFL. There are 255 players drafted every season, plus the signings of undrafted FAs. Of those, how many are 2nd string or even 3rd string players? How many are out of the league in less than 4 years?
    Just like in Madden's draft, most of them. Also, trying to give ratings to players based on career performance is silly since Madden ratings exist to give an idea of a player's performance in that season, not across their career.

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    • BreakingBad2013
      Pro
      • Aug 2013
      • 848

      #32
      Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

      Originally posted by Yazan Gable
      Why won't Von Miller win every time against someone who is less than half his equal? That's an absurdly large gap in skill level. That player is effectively a turnstile or a gust of wind that mildly inconveniences Von Miller.
      Because it would be vs a fringe starter (41-50) who is good enough to win here and there. Just not consistently. The gaps are only large with how we've been thinking of madden over the years.

      Now if it were vs like a 22, then he'll get his butt kicked all day.
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      • mrprice33
        Just some guy
        • Jul 2003
        • 5986

        #33
        Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

        Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
        Most of the league falls into bench player or worse. And an even higher number falls into not being able to make it in the NFL. There are 255 players drafted every season, plus the signings of undrafted FAs. Of those, how many are 2nd string or even 3rd string players? How many are out of the league in less than 4 years?
        Right, but Madden doesn't include literally every player available to play football in a given season, so a lot of those "out of the league" guys are literally not in the game (out of the league).

        The players drafted in later rounds in Madden and who would be UDFA-type players are in the 50s (below replacement level). The player pool that's important for the game's purposes are the replacement-level guys and up, as that's typically what the user has to interact with.

        All it is is just a scale. If the players rated 50s now were rated 0s in a new scale, it's still the same thing. You'd just have a bunch of players bunched between 40 and 60 instead of 65-85.
        Last edited by mrprice33; 07-23-2016, 01:25 PM.

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        • Yazan Gable
          Rookie
          • Aug 2014
          • 128

          #34
          Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

          Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
          Because it would be vs a fringe starter (41-50) who is good enough to win here and there. Just not consistently. The gaps are only large with how we've been thinking of madden over the years.

          Now if it were vs like a 22, then he'll get his butt kicked all day.
          Yeah man, these totally arbitrary numbers you made up in terms of their performance really tell the truth. Never seen a 43 OVR right tackle but they'd definitely sometimes win against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but a 22? Dead.

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          • BreakingBad2013
            Pro
            • Aug 2013
            • 848

            #35
            Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

            Originally posted by mrprice33
            Right, but Madden doesn't include literally every player available to play football in a given season, so a lot of those "out of the league" guys are literally not in the game (out of the league).

            The players drafted in later rounds in Madden and who would be UDFA-type players are in the 50s (below replacement level). The player pool that's important for the game's purposes are the replacement-level guys and up, as that's typically what the user has to interact with.
            Understandable, but stretching out ratings would change the entire makeup of the game. Maybe it's just me. But I have seen 60s and 70s become bonafied starters, and if they were 20s and 30s I feel the FEEL of how bad they are would actually show up. There's no much difference in madden between Brady, Mat Ryan, Derrick Carr, and Sam Bradford. Elite don't feel elite, and bonafied bums can do too much. It's a video game I get it, but I think stretching ratings allows you to put players in more realistic categories and less elite players would make the game better
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            • mrprice33
              Just some guy
              • Jul 2003
              • 5986

              #36
              Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

              Originally posted by Yazan Gable
              Just like in Madden's draft, most of them. Also, trying to give ratings to players based on career performance is silly since Madden ratings exist to give an idea of a player's performance in that season, not across their career.
              Right, it's half "this is how they performed last year" and half "this is how we project them to perform this year."

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              • BreakingBad2013
                Pro
                • Aug 2013
                • 848

                #37
                Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                Originally posted by Yazan Gable
                Yeah man, these totally arbitrary numbers you made up in terms of their performance really tell the truth. Never seen a 43 OVR right tackle but they'd definitely sometimes win against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL, but a 22? Dead.


                Yes. Lol. Watch football, and tell me you've never seen a backup come in and do okay. And you've never watched football and watched a team get so low into depth, that that player isn't getting completely handled play in and play out.
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                • Cowboy008
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 4574

                  #38
                  Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                  Even though those guys are some of the best WR's I still think those ratings are too high. Also think even though he didn't play all season last year that Dez should have been in the top 5.

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                  • mrprice33
                    Just some guy
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 5986

                    #39
                    Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                    Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
                    Understandable, but stretching out ratings would change the entire makeup of the game. Maybe it's just me. But I have seen 60s and 70s become bonafied starters, and if they were 20s and 30s I feel the FEEL of how bad they are would actually show up. There's no much difference in madden between Brady, Mat Ryan, Derrick Carr, and Sam Bradford. Elite don't feel elite, and bonafied bums can do too much. It's a video game I get it, but I think stretching ratings allows you to put players in more realistic categories and less elite players would make the game better
                    The thing that separates those QBs is decision making, largely. Carr might have a slightly stronger arm than Brady now and Bradford might be slightly more or less accurate than Ryan, but it's their ability to read the field and make the right decision. The inability of Madden to make them distinct is largely an issue of programming and AI, not ratings. And when it comes to user-controlled QBs, well...that's what the vision cone was for.

                    When it comes to other positions, however, there are tangible differences between ratings. I *feel* the difference between having 90+ overall players across my offensive line compared to a mix of 70s. I *feel* the difference with highly-rated corners vs average ones. There will always need to be tweaks to the ratings, since it's such an inexact science, but getting caught up in the scale isn't particularly helpful. They could stretch the scale out to a 1-1000 level and it could still be poorly done.

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                    • BreakingBad2013
                      Pro
                      • Aug 2013
                      • 848

                      #40
                      Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                      We'll agree to disagree. I have played with JJ Watt and watch him get manhandled one on one consistently. I've played with bad offensive lineman and felt like I had just as much time as when I had better OL. I can't feel the difference between Julio Jones and Breahaud Perriman unless you're talking Aggressive Carch, and even then it's 50/50.

                      Same with Latavius Murray and AP.

                      Same with Richard Sherman and Jalen Collins

                      And DTs have almost 0 differential to me. Maybe it'll change this year.
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                      • Bull_Dozer
                        Rookie
                        • Apr 2010
                        • 247

                        #41
                        91-93 speed. I find this boring that guys are so close in ratings. I'll definitely be editing to spread things out more.

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                        • mrprice33
                          Just some guy
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 5986

                          #42
                          Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                          Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
                          We'll agree to disagree. I have played with JJ Watt and watch him get manhandled one on one consistently. I've played with bad offensive lineman and felt like I had just as much time as when I had better OL. I can't feel the difference between Julio Jones and Breahaud Perriman unless you're talking Aggressive Carch, and even then it's 50/50.

                          Same with Latavius Murray and AP.

                          Same with Richard Sherman and Jalen Collins

                          And DTs have almost 0 differential to me. Maybe it'll change this year.
                          I agree in that I don't think past Maddens did a good job differentiating those guys. While 17 is much better in this regard, I don't think ratings were as much of a problem as programming. A lot of Madden's interactions are based on dice rolls, so what you see as a "the ratings aren't spread out enough" problem I see largely as a "the dice rolls aren't scaled correctly for ratings differences" problem.

                          Let's pretend we're talking about a game where 2 trucks travel at each other, and the one that can knock the other off course "wins." If one truck was much larger and had much more weight than the other, but the game was programmed to make each collision a 50-50 proposition, you wouldn't necessarily blame the way the game portrays the size of the trucks for the problem, right? You'd blame the way the game simulated the collision of the trucks, the way the game chose which truck-crashing animation to play out, etc.

                          What's happened in Madden in the past is sort of what I just described, except instead of trucks crashing into each other it's whether or not a QB's pass is going to be inaccurate, whether or not a WR was going to beat a jam at the LOS, whether or not a DE was going to get past an OL, whether or not a WR would catch a ball, or an RB fumble, etc etc. Widening the scale *could* make those things feel more realistic because you're introducing such extreme variables that the game cannot help but generate the desired result (maybe, in the truck game example above, the only way to guarantee that the larger truck pushed the smaller one off-course is if it was the size of a large house). But, it doesn't fix the actual problem. That's how you get situations where people put kickers at G and they can block Aaron Donald a quarter of the time.

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                          • BreakingBad2013
                            Pro
                            • Aug 2013
                            • 848

                            #43
                            Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                            That makes sense. So is this still an issue?
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                            • The JareBear
                              Be Good To One Another
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 11560

                              #44
                              Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                              Originally posted by BreakingBad2013
                              We'll agree to disagree. I have played with JJ Watt and watch him get manhandled one on one consistently. I've played with bad offensive lineman and felt like I had just as much time as when I had better OL. I can't feel the difference between Julio Jones and Breahaud Perriman unless you're talking Aggressive Carch, and even then it's 50/50.

                              Same with Latavius Murray and AP.

                              Same with Richard Sherman and Jalen Collins

                              And DTs have almost 0 differential to me. Maybe it'll change this year.
                              I definitely agree about the bold. Have experienced these things myself
                              "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

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                              • dayornite
                                Rookie
                                • Feb 2014
                                • 37

                                #45
                                Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

                                Psh. Forget Dez "Dropped it" Bryant. Where is AR15? Allen Robinson was unstoppable last year. Tied the league in TD receptions, lead the league in catches 20 plus yards and has the most TD's as a WR in one season since the Jags began in 95.

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