EA vs. its fans.

[blueeon03]

Something I've been thinking about over the past 4 or 5 years is how EA's direction of Madden lines up with what the players and fans want from Madden.

We all know there's a litany of complaints every year about the accuracy or inaccuracy of Madden, or any sports series, really. We all bemoan every iteration of Madden because of things we think they could improve or add to the game.

Sometimes EA "seems" to listen, but most of the time, EA has a distinct vision about what they want Madden to be. Now, I don't necessarily have my finger on the pulse of the Madden community the way I'm sure some of you do, so I want to know a few things.

Like, what would you consider the most popular modes are in Madden nowadays? Is it still franchise? Or is it the ultimate team stuff? EA sure makes it seem like the ultimate team stuff is popular, but of course they would. If franchise mode is still their most popular feature, wouldn't it make sense to dedicate the most resources towards that?

Yet, that mode seems neglected most of the time, even when they say they're improving it.

What about presentation? Makers of sports games nowadays all seem to want their games to "look and feel like TV." That's cool and all, but I'm here to play a game and after a while, all that stuff doesn't matter. After you hear the same 150 canned bits of commentary and see the same 5 player intros, it gets really dull. So, it makes you wonder that maybe this stuff is so unnecessary that the time and resources needed to make it could have been better spent tightening up other things. Do you care that much that it looks like it's on CBS?

Maybe it's just me, but sports games seem to be more style than substance, or at least they try to be. Given a yearly cycle and the seeming reluctance to make one great game with every feature you want, maybe this is what we'll get as long as there's one company that make these games?

So, anyway, do you feel like EA, and other sports game companies, really relate to what the average player wants or do they just tell us what we SHOULD want?

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

We have every reason to believe MUT is insanely popular. Those types of games are so popular right now it's not even funny. Same with the Show, 2k, Fifa, etc.

As far as the balance of listening to fans and wanting your own vision it's a fine line. I understand fans have wants and I do think companies should listen to their fans. At the same time, the company is producing the product so they have the right to follow their vision if they want.

Both sides have to live with the result of the product (negatively or positively received). It's just the way it is. No different than a movie, TV show, or other games. I wish they'd put more time into franchise or give it an overhaul, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

[roadman]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

I would start off with define average player. I know players that don't read messages boards or Twitter. Are they part of the Madden community"

Currently, Madden tries to reach out to each community, whether it's sim, MUT, DC, Franchise(somewhat) etc...... They are still using old code that is still creating legacy issues like movements and animations not working properly.

I agree with Mauer, it's a delicate balance of adding in features what we want and sticking with their 3 or 5 year plans. They have stockholders to listen to.

I will say this, since Rex and Clint started working at EA, the tide seems to be going more towards a sim route for gameplay, CFM needs to start showing up in the same manner.

[SageInfinite]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

I think all sports games nowadays do a good job catering to their player base......

[Armor and Sword]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

There has never been a better time to be a console sports gamer than now.

I am a legacy console sports gamer. What does that mean? It means I have been playing console sports games since the inception of the home video game console with Atari 2600 being the first true robust home console gaming system.

When I go back and play older games a very select few can even hold up and none of them are from the 80's. A few from the 90's and a select few from the 2000's but even still.....today's output from EA, 2K and SCEA are light years ahead of where we came from.

I think sports game developers are doing a fantastic job of trying to emulate sports but at the same time keeping the games a ton of fun to play.

The replay-ability value has never been better than now.

You can't expect a text sports simulation ability coupled with elite AAA game playing ability IMO. A perfect example is OOTP baseball vs The Show. OOTP is incredibly deep. But that is truly a manage mode only type of experience vs actually playing a video game like The Show.

I think The Show, Madden and NBA 2K do an amazing job of giving us some pretty deep GM/Franchise mode options, but at the same time delivering a robust on the field gaming experience.

It's a balance. The games have to be fun. Most of the buyers are playing to have a good time and feel like they are getting what they see on Sunday, but not sacrificing the "fun factor". Madden was revolutionary in providing a football game that had true 11 on 11 football, real playbooks, real teams and players but having a "fun factor" that far exceeded sim/text games like Front Page Football and the like. That is what set this game off to be EA's flag ship game for so many years. Obviously FIFA has almost taken the mantle but Madden's popularity is still undeniable. The game also has done a great job if giving us more modes to enjoy. MUT is a highly popular mode and Draft Champions introduced last season has been a hit.

I think if your expecting the depth of those text/sim sports games....your barking up the wrong tree.

I am a CFM guy. And online Madden is the best in the biz for an online experieince hands down. From a full feature set (you can do everything you can in offline in CFM...online) to connectivity and server support. Madden online is excellent. I rarely have issues playing online with Madden.

Offline I am far happier with CFM now then I was since the jump to PS3/360. Have we gotten back to the PS2 days of Madden 2007? No, not quite there yet....but we are closer than ever to getting back the best franchise mode we ever had (back then).

I think since Madden 25 the direction has been very much in-line with most of us who have played Madden since it's inception. They really went off the rails jumping from PS2 to PS3 and it's been a long road back to being a great sports game again. IMO Madden 16 was the best version of this game top to bottom ever. As much as I loved Madden 2005 and 2007 on the field....no comparison.

I think they are listening and doing everything they can to give us the best Madden game we can ever play. Starting with M25 we have seen tremendous gameplay improvements and feature set's being implemented to bring us back to the glory years (2002-2007 PS2/XBOX). At the same time they are making the game fun to play.

Gameplay is most important to me. And everyone see's different things they want. But you can't escape the fact that in the end....it's a video game. And your going to be able to defy real life physics when playing a video game. If you can't get over that.....stop playing video games and go outside and play football for real. I really don't know what to say. I like having some "Madden Moments" that is what the fun of playing video games is supposed to be about for most of us. I played baseball for 40 years....I love being able to pull off crap I did not do on the field on The Show. Your going to have those "video game" moments....that's why we call them video games.

You even hear announcers talk about that when when you see some crazy high scoring games and insane catches and runs IRL on Sundays. It's about doing stuff that can defy human physics. That is what video games are. As realistic as the games of today are...and to me so life like like never before, we are going to have those moments of..."no way I can't believe he just did that". It's a video game folks.

That's Madden. Always has been....always will be. Take it or leave it. The game is freaking fun. How you define fun...will define if this franchise is for you or not. This is what we have. And continuing to labor on the exclusive license and all that......enough already it's not changing anytime soon if ever and we don't control that. I see guys on this development team with passion and a strong desire to make a great game. It is so evident in the product we have been getting since the jump to PS4/ONE.

I gave up on Madden on the PS3 until I played M25...right there I knew something changed. Madden 09/10/11/12....all felt so stale and sterile and nothing like the PS2 days. I never played more than 3-4 months then traded them in. Thank god we had NCAA 11-14. That game saved console football for me while Madden went through the "dark times" Madden 13???....pure abortion.

M25 started the true turnaround. And I am very excited and hyped for the best version yet with Madden 17. I am oozing with confidence that this game will build and get better from the great Madden 16.

Rock on Maddenites.

[bucky60]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

Madden having a "fun factor" that far exceeded sim/text games like Front Page Football and the like.

Sierra's Front Page Sports (if that's what you are referring to) wasn't a text based sim, it was an 11 on 11 3d'ish sim like Madden. If there is another Front Page Football that you are referring to, then I apologize. To say that Madden's "fun factor" far exceeded games like Sierra's Front Page Sports Football is pure opinion and one that I don't share. I thought Sierra's Front Page Sports Football was one of the best, if not thee best, football games at the time.

I was really hurt when they recalled FPS Football in 99 and discontinued there team sports (Like Front Page Baseball and Football). Sierra chose to only do the Hook and Bullet sports after 99.

[underdog13]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

Well put A&S

I will say every year it feels like cfm makes great strides. They have added many options with the player/coach/owner set up. It also is a very immersive mode with the fake twitter and the storylines.

Comparing that to the other game I play Mlb the show, which gets more praise for its franchise mode, despite imo not adding much the past 3 years and having a feel of disconnected between your team and the rest of the league.

Just observations, seems that people hate the new iterations of Madden because of the past iterations 5-8 years ago.

[bucky60]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

seems that people hate the new iterations of Madden because of the past iterations 5-8 years ago.

Not true. I dislike the current CFM because it's so unrealistic and arcadish. Difficult for me to get immersed into something that feels so fake and inorganic (talking about CFM).

[underdog13]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

Not true. I dislike the current CFM because it's so unrealistic and arcadish. Difficult for me to get immersed into something that feels so fake and inorganic (talking about CFM).

I just said seems like it, not necessarily is the reason. What do you not like about cfm?

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[Dynamite]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

The real issue, I think, is that there are too many segments to really make happy.

The sim audience wants a specific type of game, the online head to head guy wants a specific type of game, the franchise only player wants a specific game, the MUT player wants a specific game...how does one development team make all of these segments happy without sacrificing quality overall? While also managing relationships with strategic partners like Gatorade, Nike, Reebok, etc? While engaging with their licensing partner, the NFL and the 32 franchises within, to get authenticity in the visual presentation of their brands? While also engaging with the NFLPA on likenesses and the retired legends pool on their likenesses?

This is a monumental task and a testament to EA's size and scalability that a game even comes out every year. Look inside EA's own building at the NBA to see what happens when those things don't come together. NBA Live hasn't really been close to the lower end of Madden opinions in years.

Fact is, I don't think there's an EA vs fans argument to make. It's more accurate to make an EA vs scale of tasks argument. Maybe the answer is to split the properties out...and risk weakening the overall product?

[jfsolo]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

Good stuff Armor.

[SageInfinite]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

There has never been a better time to be a console sports gamer than now.

Gotta totally disagree here. The lack of sports games alone kills this opinion for me. No college sports games and basically 1 game for every sport....

[bucky60]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

I just said seems like it, not necessarily is the reason. What do you not like about cfm?

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First, thanks for asking.
Second, it's OK for people (like you) to like the current CFM.

Things I don't like about CFM:
RPG progression system based on game stats/goals, practice goals is an arcade and inorganic based progression system. Any realistic variables added is still just a modifier to this unrealistic arcade system. The entire RPG progression system is limits how realistic other aspects of CFM (including the new practice squads). It limits how realistic coaching elements have on CFM. That type of unrealistic model spills over into how Madden's scouting is setup.

For me, realistic is immersive. I would like to see a much more realistic CFM.

If you like the current RPGish progression, scouting etc, I'm OK with that. You have every right to like it. Nothing wrong with you liking it. It's just not for me.

There was a thread right up for CFM rebuild that I would cream my pants over. Take a look at that and you will get a good idea of what I dislike about the current CFM and what I would like.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

Sierra's Front Page Sports (if that's what you are referring to) wasn't a text based sim, it was an 11 on 11 3d'ish sim like Madden. If there is another Front Page Football that you are referring to, then I apologize. To say that Madden's "fun factor" far exceeded games like Sierra's Front Page Sports Football is pure opinion and one that I don't share. I thought Sierra's Front Page Sports Football was one of the best, if not thee best, football games at the time.

I was really hurt when they recalled FPS Football in 99 and discontinued there team sports (Like Front Page Baseball and Football). Sierra chose to only do the Hook and Bullet sports after 99.

I played it. Played it a lot in fact. It was a great game but an entirely different experience from console video gaming. That's was I was referencing. Those expecting that should play HC09 which is what FPS was more in line with. I just don't think we will see that type of depth on a console football game made for the masses.

[bucky60]

Re: EA vs. its fans.

I played it. Played it a lot in fact. It was a great game but an entirely different experience from console video gaming. That's was I was referencing. Those expecting that should play HC09 which is what FPS was more in line with. I just don't think we will see that type of depth on a console football game made for the masses.

If HC09 had interactive gameplay, I would agree that FPS was more like HC09. But HC09 missing the interactive gameplay that FPS had is a huge missing piece. And I think it is a shame that we won't see that kind of depth in a console football game.

Off topic:
So you were a fellow FPS'er? Just Football or there baseball too? Do you remember XOR football? Kind of dating myself.