Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

[GoJags904]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

You say that, but it seems your primary grievance is that Allen Robinson isn't rated in the top 5.

As to the debate of whether or not he's top 5...PFF had him at #10, graded at an 89, right behind DeAndre Hopkins. Football Outsiders had him at 8th in Defense-Adjusted Yards Above Replacement, ahead of Beckham and Hopkins (10 and 13, respectively).

Yahoo has him as the 7th-ranked fantasy receiver, behind all 5 of those guys. ESPN has him 6th, behind all but AJ Green. It seems like it's Brown as the clear 1, then Beckham, Jones, Hopkins, Green, Robinson, and Bryant all bunched in as 2-6. So take your pick, I guess.

No AR isn't the only problem. I have always started Madden with custom rosters because of the ratings to all 32 teams. If the game play animations were tuned better for balance I wouldn't have a big issue. Not only that, but xp progression and player regression has always hindered ratings as well so I'm not digging deep because of the edit feature this year[emoji4]. I really don't see that much of a difference between dh,obj,and ar for the ratings received but so be it. I dont play online much anyways and wont until gameplay is completely fixed. Pass rush, pocket and all to combat the cheese so im good.

Sent from my LG via Tapatalk.
Buy my New Single "Cray Cray" on ITUNES @ http://apple.co/28MBmhh

[msdm27]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

Random question: Why is Hopkins (4.57 40 time) faster than AJ Green (4.50) 40 time?

I see this in others cases throughout the reveals but this one jumped to mind first.

[Yazan Gable]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

Random question: Why is Hopkins (4.57 40 time) faster than AJ Green (4.50) 40 time?

I see this in others cases throughout the reveals but this one jumped to mind first.

I mean, it's a 1 point difference. And it's been 5 years since he ran a combine. Could be them messing it up, of course, but at the same time it's not like Hopkins is blowing AJ Green out of the water.

[msdm27]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

Sorry man, I see you always try to stick up for the game but... Come on!
In ANY data driven enterprise, as Madden ratings claim to be, there is no "well, is just a one point difference"... That's an absurd statement and even Kane or other Madden dev would probably tell you that they are a bit less willy-nilly than that.

Newsflash, it's been 5 years for both players so I don't see how that's an argument.

And if their reasoning is "game speed" then that is deeply disappointing because I, with all due respect to Kane, can't fathom how someone who was hired for his knowledge of equipment/uniforms suddenly became capable/experienced enough to go through NFL game tape and accurately judge how "game speed" works and then assign it to players.

[mrprice33]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

The only thing I can think of is that if they're applying a basic speed decrease to players as they age that Green (27) has been slowed down while Hopkins (24) has not.

Based purely on 40 times, Julio Jones should be the fastest of the group.

[briz1046]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

Tbh I've never liked the concept of "game speed "speed ratings should reflect how fast a person can run and should follow a progression / regression arc based on available data
Other ratings like AWR RTE PRC etc. should reflect differences in how that translates to game play IMO

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

To the 100 point scale discussion. The way I see it, they do utilize the entire 100 points. I, myself, would be a 20. Lol. In my youth, I might've been 30 or 40 ovr, because I never played organized football, but I had the skills to play some. Lol. Now, I'm being a little sarcastic, here, obviously. But, to me, that's the deal. As someone said earlier, 'there are no bums in the NFL.' And, someone else said, 'yes, there are. They are bums in the NFL.' Or something like that. But, imo, it's a 0-100 scale based on 'human ability'. Meaning all humans have some throw power ability, speed, etc. As opposed to a 'football ability' scale. So, for me, it makes sense that no sub 50 players would be in the game. Those guys simply don't make the cut.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

To the 100 point scale discussion. The way I see it, they do utilize the entire 100 points. I, myself, would be a 20. Lol. In my youth, I might've been 30 or 40 ovr, because I never played organized football, but I had the skills to play some. Lol. Now, I'm being a little sarcastic, here, obviously. But, to me, that's the deal. As someone said earlier, 'there are no bums in the NFL.' And, someone else said, 'yes, there are. They are bums in the NFL.' Or something like that. But, imo, it's a 0-100 scale based on 'human ability'. Meaning all humans have some throw power ability, speed, etc. As opposed to a 'football ability' scale. So, for me, it makes sense that no sub 50 players would be in the game. Those guys simply don't make the cut.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which was kind of what I was saying with my post a few pages back. These are all professionals so assuming some baseline of competency isn't exactly out of the question. But again, the scale itself doesn't matter if the game is correctly handling the attribute disparity.

[msdm27]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

The only thing I can think of is that if they're applying a basic speed decrease to players as they age that Green (27) has been slowed down while Hopkins (24) has not.

Based purely on 40 times, Julio Jones should be the fastest of the group.

If by their standards, speed starts to decrease at around 27 then, well, these Madden devs certainly have a particular way to look at things

But I think your guess might be right, it is either "game speed" or "speed regression", likely the latter. Hopefully they wil re-visit the way they handle speed soon because any decrease by 27 is weird imo

[mrprice33]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

Tbh I've never liked the concept of "game speed "speed ratings should reflect how fast a person can run and should follow a progression / regression arc based on available data
Other ratings like AWR RTE PRC etc. should reflect differences in how that translates to game play IMO

I'm with you. Coming out of college their rating should be purely based on what their 40 time was, but a base speed deduction as players reach certain ages is something that I'm more than okay with.

[msdm27]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Player Ratings - Top 5 Wide Receivers

Which was kind of what I was saying with my post a few pages back. These are all professionals so assuming some baseline of competency isn't exactly out of the question. But again, the scale itself doesn't matter if the game is correctly handling the attribute disparity.

The bold in price's last post comprises what is wrong with Madden, lots of things are "in place" but for some reason the game doesn't handle them correctly

[mrprice33]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

If by their standards, speed starts to decrease at around 27 then, well, these Madden devs certainly have a particular way to look at things

But I think your guess might be right, it is either "game speed" or "speed regression", likely the latter. Hopefully they wil re-visit the way they handle speed soon because any decrease by 27 is weird imo

By some accounts, the end of an NFL player's peak range is about 28-29 for wide receivers


Any injuries (knee/back for Green), would contribute to any further decline, I would think. Again, I'm not involved in ratings and have no idea how they are handled, but this is my guess as to how this might work.

[msdm27]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

By some accounts, the end of an NFL player's peak range is about 28-29 for wide receivers


Any injuries (knee/back for Green), would contribute to any further decline, I would think. Again, I'm not involved in ratings and have no idea how they are handled, but this is my guess as to how this might work.

Do you have a link to the source of the graph? What exactly is involved in "aging"?

[Yazan Gable]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

Sorry man, I see you always try to stick up for the game but... Come on!
In ANY data driven enterprise, as Madden ratings claim to be, there is no "well, is just a one point difference"... That's an absurd statement and even Kane or other Madden dev would probably tell you that they are a bit less willy-nilly than that.

Think you confuse "standing up for the game" with being reasonable. They make head-scratching ratings decisions all the time (the numerous times I've looked at Philip Rivers being lower than Andy Dalton or Mariota and Bridgewater being lower than Stafford as examples) so a one point difference in speed between this guy and another guy is small compared to other issues. You can overreact about a singular point of speed that won't matter when they're outrunning corners whose speed is in the late 80s and you can also give AJ Green that +2 speed boost yourself. This is relatively nitpicking. Could also ask the guy on Twitter why he is slower than DeAndre Hopkins.

[msdm27]

Re: MADDEN NFL 17 Player Ratings: Top 5 Wide Receivers

Think you confuse "standing up for the game" with being reasonable. They make head-scratching ratings decisions all the time (the numerous times I've looked at Philip Rivers being lower than Andy Dalton or Mariota and Bridgewater being lower than Stafford as examples) so a one point difference in speed between this guy and another guy is small compared to other issues. You can overreact about a singular point of speed that won't matter when they're outrunning corners whose speed is in the late 80s and you can also give AJ Green that +2 speed boost yourself. This is relatively nitpicking. Could also ask the guy on Twitter why he is slower than DeAndre Hopkins.

Show me where is the overreacting, please.
This is the current issue on the forum with Madden, every time someone post a reasonable complaint or critique regarding something in the game, they are met with tangent arguments as to why the complaint doesn't matter (why does a 1 point different matter if they still run by <90 speed DB?, well then why have a 100 scale then if things are not going to be represented accurately); and after the you are met with the typical "that's nitpicking" line.

Please tell me where the threadshold is for rating inconsistency for one to be able to point it out without being nitpicky?

Bottom line, your statement that a one point ratings difference doesn't mean much is methodically wrong and goes against the logic of a 100 scale.