The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

And just because you have the right to complain, it doesn't mean your complaint is always right.

Realistically, it's the kind of restrictions that have to be put in the game until CPU's become sentient and do not have to abide by an indisputable "law" set forth by programmers.

Realistically, it's the type of restriction that has to be there because it was (obviously) added very late in the development/production cycle, and they're trying to cut-back on as many exploits (that gamers would surely find) as possible. Which essentially makes this addition a beta run on a live platform that will give them loads of data and opinions to improve for '18 and beyond... meaning, you may not have to wait a full, first-world country year to get the perfect product you deserve. Better a year early than a yearly later...

You treat it as a "must have now" type of implement, where as the others see it for what it is, and that's a better future for the game and it's direction, regardless of how well/not so well the game is at the current state. Whether it's complete or incomplete doesn't matter. The fact is, formation subs are back. Period. That's a huge win for a lot of NFL gamers in itself.

Just be happy for once the team is finally hearing "us".

No it's not right that's true. Doesn't mean your satisfaction is right either.

You guys that are pumped have every right to be. Just like those of us that are disappointed have every right to be.

It's just a difference of opinion/viewpoint. We can leave it at that.

[kehlis]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

No it's not right that's true. Doesn't mean your satisfaction is right either.



You guys that are pumped have every right to be. Just like those of us that are disappointed have every right to be.



It's just a difference of opinion/viewpoint. We can leave it at that.

It's a vast difference of opinion and an incredible amount of pettiness.

[scottyp180]

For the complaints about position restrictions I wonder if it's something they can adjust in a patch. With enough people upset over the issue they might be able to figure out a work around.

But hell, at the end of the day, I'll take formation subs with restrictions over no formation subs at all. This is a step forward for a game that too often in the past would be content with standing in place (or even taking a step back at times).

[roadman]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I think the frustration lies in people who are here during the off-season (year round) and putting in time to make suggestions and make comments(you know who you are and it's appreciated) vs people that show up on a yearly basis when game info is marketed (ie EA Play) and comment about their frustrations and leave at or near the release date.

The onset of continuous development should have people excited and contributing exciting opinions(good or constructive, not stuff like finally, it's in) throughout the year.

[msdm27]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I think the frustration lies in people who are here during the off-season (year round) and putting in time to make suggestions and make comments(you know who you are and it's appreciated) vs people that show up on a yearly basis when game info is marketed (ie EA Play) and comment about their frustrations and leave at or near the release date.

The onset of continuous development should have people excited and contributing exciting opinions(good or constructive, not stuff like finally, it's in) throughout the year.

I think the problem/fear people have is tied to the fact that there is a history of features being implemented without being fully fleshed out and then just left behind as if it was problem solved. I guess that what stops some from appreciating the extra effort to get it in M17 with a day one patch.

Continuous development is great, and we should all be appreciative of it and the fact that devs are listening; but the fact of the matter is nobody knows wether devs look at this as a feature under progress for M18 or a ticked checkbox moving forward.

In the end, it is a matter of faith and/or goodwill towards the development team.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I think the problem/fear people have is tied to the fact that there is a history of features being implemented without being fully fleshed out and then just left behind as if it was problem solved. I guess that what stops some from appreciating the extra effort to get it in M17 with a day one patch.

Continuous development is great, and we should all be appreciative of it and the fact that devs are listening; but the fact of the matter is nobody knows wether devs look at this as a feature under progress for M18 or a ticked checkbox moving forward.

In the end, it is a matter of faith and/or goodwill towards the development team.

This is a very good point and I think track record has a lot to do with it. Not just Madden the game but the entire company.

We all know the horror stories with previous EA titles (Madden, Mass Effect, Battlefront, etc.). I know it's completely different teams but still annoying when the same company keeps showing up on these games that have many issues/incomplete features.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

It's a vast difference of opinion and an incredible amount of pettiness.

Again. That's YOUR opinion.

[roadman]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I think the problem/fear people have is tied to the fact that there is a history of features being implemented without being fully fleshed out and then just left behind as if it was problem solved. I guess that what stops some from appreciating the extra effort to get it in M17 with a day one patch.

Continuous development is great, and we should all be appreciative of it and the fact that devs are listening; but the fact of the matter is nobody knows wether devs look at this as a feature under progress for M18 or a ticked checkbox moving forward.

In the end, it is a matter of faith and/or goodwill towards the development team.

So, you feel the same way with these developers vs the past developers, is what you are saying, correct.

Nothing in the past two or three years has changed in your mind in that area.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I think the frustration lies in people who are here during the off-season (year round) and putting in time to make suggestions and make comments(you know who you are and it's appreciated) vs people that show up on a yearly basis when game info is marketed (ie EA Play) and comment about their frustrations and leave at or near the release date.

The onset of continuous development should have people excited and contributing exciting opinions(good or constructive, not stuff like finally, it's in) throughout the year.

Absolutely love the continuous development and I give them full credit for that approach. I think you and I have discussed this, but another problem is just the giant whole they dug themselves in prior to the change in direction.

It's going to take quite a while for people to trust the developers again (myself included).

[roadman]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

Absolutely love the continuous development and I give them full credit for that approach. I think you and I have discussed this, but another problem is just the giant whole they dug themselves in prior to the change in direction.

It's going to take quite a while for people to trust the developers again (myself included).

I agree some people may feel that way (an oldie, but a goodie), but the way I look at it, are you going to keep looking in the rear-view mirror looking at the past decade or will you start moving forward accepting who these developers are and making changes to the game?

You can continue to look over the giant hole the game used to have or you can appreciate that that hole is beginning to get smaller and smaller.(I didn't say it's fully covered)

Depends on how you look at life in general.

[EricFreakingBerry]

Anyone know if subs will affect sim engine stats? If I play subs more will they actually get more sim snaps?

[mrprice33]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

Looks like they are using the standard depth chart restrictions as the same restrictions within formation subs. I appreciate the effort of getting this in a Day 1 patch and hopefully it is something that could be tuned through the year or expanded formation subs in M18.

We are already discussing how to expand it. Not sure if it'll be in this year or not, but we're discussing having an option for restrictions (such as the ones in place) and one with no restrictions (where you could put any player in any position). In the future, I want them to make it so that the commissioner can control every position and the positions available to be put there with form subs. You'd have a menu where all the positions are listed, and to the right are check boxes for all the possible positions that can go there. The commish would scroll over and x all the ones that they want the league to be able to use.

[jb12780]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

I'm very excited formation subs will be making a return in Madden 17. Props to the dev team for getting these in. Great job guys.

[msdm27]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

So, you feel the same way with these developers vs the past developers, is what you are saying, correct.

Nothing in the past two or three years has changed in your mind in that area.

I don't know why you would frame your post this way when I made no mention in my post as to how I feel about the feature. I went as far saying it is a matter of faith on the devs, but never said anything about whether I trust them or not.

But to answer the question, I only judge based on the current dev team, not previous ones, and I am very encouraged by their approach. However, one does not need to be a skeptic to see how can formation subs ultimately not be touched further for a while.

By now we know that there a bigger underlying problems as to why the feature is not implemented properly (exploits and depth chart limitations), one would assume EA works constantly on eliminating exploits and defensive assignments would go a long way towards this but they've also been very specific about how many resources that feature would take so you can see how proper form subs might end up being pushed to M19, no?

Also, the fact that "something is better than nothing" is also an easy crutch to rely upon when prioritizing future features; to give you an example:
Q: Why weren't contracts/player management overhauled if this was the deepest CFM ever?
A: We focused on other aspects, ran out of time and With full player editing you can modify contracts as you see fit (this has been a GOTO answer for many CFM questions this year)

Now we have no certainty that this answer will change for M18 because they might feel that a tool (granted, too basic) is already there to solve that problem, thus making it possible for them to focus on other areas.

In addition, a not fully fleshed formation subs feature, which needs more work for a M17 patch or M18 would also likely affect how many resources they might have to focus on the custom packages side of the equation.

But since the fact is we don't know one way or another, we might as well take the inclusion of "basic" formation subs as a W and hope for the best

[bucky60]

Re: The Return of Formation Subs in Madden NFL 17

These are not options Tiburon has in the here and now, and expecting them to retroactively fix the past is silly.

Very glad it is back, even in it's limited form.

But it is not silly to hold a company accountable for past decisions. The guy was right, being able to save formation subs should not have been removed, and it should not have taken anywhere near this long to add back.