[daveberg]

Quote: Originally Posted by VDusen04

I understand where you're coming from and I agree. I would much rather have a Michael Jordan with a Bubba Gump face than no Michael Jordan at all. In fact, 2K exceeded all my expectations when it comes to classic teams. I never thought they'd be possible in basketball because I figured it'd mean they'd have to go secure all the individual rights of players, since they couldn't skirt by with editable names and generic faces like historic teams in NFL 2K5 and NHL 2K tended to do. Fortunately for all of us fans and gamers, 2K11 happened. And unfortunately for next-gen designers, 2K11 happened. In all honesty, if 2K17 was the first time we'd ever received classic teams, I'd be thrilled. But we've lived through 2K11 (and 2K12), so you can't close Pandora's box. In this case, 2K is a victim of their own incredible commitment to detail. I mean, for crying out loud, they literally had cyber MJ turn to the viewer at home and ask, "Are you ready?" before running out of the tunnel at Chicago Stadium. I'm still really happy the classics are still around (and not too many have been cut). It seems like they easily could have been left behind on last gen. That said, now that we've seen what they can be, it's tough to settle for less (in some cases, a lot less). 2K11's classics were such an incredible base that I figured the state of classic teams would have been otherworldly by the time we reached 2K17. Instead, it's almost as though we've gone in reverse (actually, that's exactly what's happened). Consider a few of the things 2K11 offered during their inaugural classics push: -18 classic teams (8 for the Bulls alone) -Different jersey textures depending upon the era (1991 Bulls jerseys had that plastic shine on the numbers while the mid- to late-90's Bulls teams, correctly, did not) -Wonderful bulk of custom Michael Jordan animations (cuff dunk, free throw line dunk, soaring one-hand leaner, two-hand pump, one-handed ball fake, wrist-slap reverse, etc.) -Custom commentary for most classic starters and teams -A mode devoted to classics -Jordan's tongue -The context-driven moments where Jordan would shrug his shoulders if he connected on six treys in the first half against Portland, or when Scottie Pippen would guide him to the sideline during the Flu Game Then consider what was added in 2K12: -Just about every one of the greatest NBA players of all-time accounted for (excluding a few such as Charles Barkley and George Mikan) -A mode devoted to all those classic players -36 classic teams -Era-appropriate accessories (knee-high striped socks, Chuck Taylors) -Era-appropriate scorers tables, basket stanchions, etc. -Era-appropriate rules (one free throw for non-shooting defensive fouls in the 60's, jump balls after each quarter, etc). -Era-specific filters and audio (black & white with tin can audio in 60's, standard def with generic computer overlay graphics in the 80's, just-about-modern-but-not-quite in the 90's (NBC-ish). -Current players retro-fitted to match their younger likenesses (Tim Duncan had his '98 haircut and goatee, Frobe, etc) -Signature dunk and layup packages for many classic players, including but not limited to: Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Dominique Wilkins, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal and Shawn Kemp. -A DLC 3-on-3 add-on that brought aboard even more classic players (with an XBox semi-hack ability of adding those players to actual rosters) -The ability to download individual create-a-player DNA's to fill out the missing roster slots as needed (ex: former roster creator PortlandBlazer would crank out near life-like editions of guys like Nick Van Exel) -Authentic arena music for the given era (organ, soundtrack, differentiating buzzer sounds) On top of everything else, even without the benefit of face scans, most of the legends looked outstanding (save for a few longstanding issues like Vinny Del Negro and Mark Price). Considering such a stellar two-year stretch, I think a lot of us were dreaming where 2K classics would be by 2K17. Maybe guys like David Robinson and Penny Hardaway would get themselves signature dunk packages by now too. Maybe the era-filters would be pre-game selectable options. Maybe shorts length and goggles would be selectable options in create-a-team or team/player edit. Maybe there'd be a new moments mode, where players re-create big moments (a la Jordan Challenge) but with everyone else, like 2K13's mobile game supposedly employed. Instead, classic players and teams have become more and more generic by the year. Less authentic dribble moves, signature dunk packages biting the dust, Michael Rappaport taking over for Rod Stewart as a Larry Bird stand-in, less MJ moves, no more era-specific baskets, tables, sounds, filters, or rules. No mode incorporating historic moments. More stringent roster editing (from what I've understood, there was no single player download option and rosters kept on having to be loaded over and over). So on and so forth. The cat's out of the bag. We've known what 2K's been capable of on the classic front. We understand if they aren't the priority year in and year out. I just wish they didn't have to go backward.

Man, you deserve a STANDING ovation for that dude.

Incredible post, covering all bases.

100% agree with everything here.