Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

[howboutdat]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

I think the best way to look at the new dynamic development trait is not from the viewpoint of the previous Maddens with the Dev trait. Being a slow dev is no longer a life sentence and a player has to continue to earn their super dev.


Think of the new dev trait as like a hot/cold meter, but instead of it being game to game, its over a part/whole of a season or couple of seasons. Look at Peyton Hillis as a great example:


He was an unknown FB on the Broncos (Normal Dev), he gets traded to the Browns and shifted position (Play edit) and lights it up for 144yards at the Ravens game (low chance weekly award dev shift to quick). He then produces a fantastic remainder of season and gets the Madden cover (Super Dev +exp). Peyton then improves his game in the offseason (spends XP) but struggles early with injury and doesn't produce expected stats (Drops dev). He then moves around a couple of teams never re-earning the starting job until he retires.


So dynamic development is not a "This is a Bust/Superstar" badge, its a "lifetime hot/cold streak" badge. There are tonnes of players in the history of the NFL who had their spotlight only to flame out due to injury, system change or being just a flash in the pan. But then there are players who worked hard, came from nowhere and now are solid, like Tony Romo.

Yeah , as i said, i dont mind some guys doing this at the end of the season. Just not a fan of the potential for it weekly due to an award . Which they have said is possible.

Like i said earlier. Im just stating , it raises a concern to me as a commish of a 32 man league that gets in 10-12 seasons per madden. I will be taking notes on how many change in first season . I dont mind if some players due, but the question will be , how many do . Even at the end of the season, it shouldnt be a ton of guys changing dev traits.

If they do , you can bet , commish will be getting alot of requests for him to fix their dev traits.How do i know? ive only done this 6 years in a row, year round....

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Nevermind. The guy answered himself. Below would be why I personally don't like dynamic development (except maybe for certain injuries or age), but not tied to stats or awards.

Trent Richardson is actually a great example of how the new dynamic development rating is realistic. dude was a top 10 pick and probably had like superstar or at least quick development rating. now adays? would u say hes superstar development? of course not. in past maddens, despite being terrible he would still maintain his superstar development and be very valuable. in the new madden, he wouldn't. which would you rather?

In real life, Trent Richardson development potential was never = NFL superstar. You're using Madden's developers perception as his real development. So your Trent example isn't really accurate. Madden developers would have just been rating him incorrectly. Trent's real life development potential didn't change. It wasn't dynamic. I believe that's what the other gentleman was saying.

[Yazan Gable]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Couple of things I did not like in this video......

2 LT's listed as 1st round picks, Top 5 on the list.
Both listed as being from Pittsburgh.....the same college.
(I dont think this would even happen in the best case scenario, other positions maybe... but not both being LT's)

In the draft, he selected a WR with the 17th pick of the 1st round.
Said his OVR rating was a 78.... then it said he "reached" because the player is the 47th ranked (Ovr) !
(46 rookie players are rated 78 or higher ? .... please say this is not so !!)

Not so much worried about the College thing, could just be a freak anomaly.

But that ratings thing.... I just hope this is before tuning or something.

Should keep in mind that the game will count kickers and punters in those upper ratings too, so a good kicker in the draft will be No. 3 in True Overall but really won't matter in the scheme of things. Not to mention certain positions like running back, wide receiver and cornerback there are always loads of players so they might be filling up the upper echelons. Also, it could just be a particularly top heavy draft. Lots of explanations until the game is out and can see.

[tessl]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Interesting changes but I'm not sure it is enough for me to get the game.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Nevermind. The guy answered himself. Below would be why I personally don't like dynamic development (except maybe for certain injuries or age), but not tied to stats or awards.



In real life, Trent Richardson development potential was never = NFL superstar. You're using Madden's developers perception as his real development. So your Trent example isn't really accurate. Madden developers would have just been rating him incorrectly. Trent's real life development potential didn't change. It wasn't dynamic. I believe that's what the other gentleman was saying.

I'll disagree with that. A RB isn't a top 3 pick without superstar potential.

[michapop9]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

I think the best way to look at the new dynamic development trait is not from the viewpoint of the previous Maddens with the Dev trait. Being a slow dev is no longer a life sentence and a player has to continue to earn their super dev.


Think of the new dev trait as like a hot/cold meter, but instead of it being game to game, its over a part/whole of a season or couple of seasons. Look at Peyton Hillis as a great example:


He was an unknown FB on the Broncos (Normal Dev), he gets traded to the Browns and shifted position (Play edit) and lights it up for 144yards at the Ravens game (low chance weekly award dev shift to quick). He then produces a fantastic remainder of season and gets the Madden cover (Super Dev +exp). Peyton then improves his game in the offseason (spends XP) but struggles early with injury and doesn't produce expected stats (Drops dev). He then moves around a couple of teams never re-earning the starting job until he retires.


So dynamic development is not a "This is a Bust/Superstar" badge, its a "lifetime hot/cold streak" badge. There are tonnes of players in the history of the NFL who had their spotlight only to flame out due to injury, system change or being just a flash in the pan. But then there are players who worked hard, came from nowhere and now are solid, like Tony Romo.

Excellent post.

[kingsofthevalley]

Looks good. Question is, can you create players and implement them into the draft? I used to be big on that when NCAA was connected to Madden, I'd create legend players and throw em in the draft for import into Madden and let the chips fall wherever they fell.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

I'll disagree with that. A RB isn't a top 3 pick without superstar potential.

I'll disagree with your disagreement. You're talking perceived potential not actual potential. A top 3 pick doesn't necessarily have high potential. That's one of the reasons we always have busts in every NFL draft. There is a fairly significant list of high draft picks that didn't make it in the NFL.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

I'll disagree with your disagreement. You're talking perceived potential not actual potential. A top 3 pick doesn't necessarily have high potential. That's one of the reasons we always have busts in every NFL draft. There is a fairly significant list of high draft picks that didn't make it in the NFL.

Not gonna lie, I don't think what you said makes any sense.

There is no such thing as "actual" potential and "perceived" potential.

Realize potential? Sure. Players fails for various reasons (scheme, work ethic, wrong talent, coaching, etc). Not because of a difference of perceived and actual potential. Trent Richardson had potential. If he didn't, he wouldn't have been so highly thought of by EVERYONE coming out of college.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Not gonna lie, I don't think what you said makes any sense.

There is no such thing as "actual" potential and "perceived" potential.

Realize potential? Sure. Players fails for various reasons (scheme, work ethic, wrong talent, coaching, etc). Not because of a difference of perceived and actual potential. Trent Richardson had potential. If he didn't, he wouldn't have been so highly thought of by EVERYONE coming out of college.

Sure people have a potential. A potential is their Max abilities. Not everyone has Walter Payton potential. Players fail because they either don't reach their potential or their potential was over-rated.

Him being thought of highly out of college has absolutely NOTHING to do with his actual potential. He was OVER-RATED by scouts.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Sure people have a potential. A potential is their Max abilities. Not everyone has Walter Payton potential. Players fail because they either don't reach their potential or their potential was over-rated.

Him being thought of highly out of college has absolutely NOTHING to do with his actual potential. He was OVER-RATED by scouts.

That's way too much of a black and white view on why prospects fail and how scouts rate them. Just because he failed doesn't mean he was an overrated prospect.

That 2012 draft class is loaded with perfect examples and actually 2-4 are all great examples of that. Would you say Griffin, Richardson, and Kalil are all overrated prospects? You shouldn't. Being a bust and being an overrated prospect are not necessarily interchangeable.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Sure people have a potential. A potential is their Max abilities. Not everyone has Walter Payton potential. Players fail because they either don't reach their potential or their potential was over-rated.

Him being thought of highly out of college has absolutely NOTHING to do with his actual potential. He was OVER-RATED by scouts.

He wasn't overrated. He was just lazy. His work ethic was awful. He got paid and lost his desire. He even acknowledges that. If he worked harder, stayed in better shape, and did what was asked of him he would be a stud in Cleveland. His potential was very high.

Sent from my LG-AS991 using Tapatalk

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

That's way too much of a black and white view on why prospects fail and how scouts rate them. Just because he failed doesn't mean he was an overrated prospect.

That 2012 draft class is loaded with perfect examples and actually 2-4 are all great examples of that. Would you say Griffin, Richardson, and Kalil are all overrated prospects? You shouldn't. Being a bust and being an overrated prospect are not necessarily interchangeable.

And draft position doesn't dictate someones actual potential. Also, someone doesn't have to be a bust to have overrated potential. Someone drafted in the top 3 doesn't necessarily have the potential to be a superstar.

I think a model that accurately represents real life (not mimic real life) is someone's potential is static, not dynamic (except for injuries and age that can lower it), and the variables you listed would indicate how closely they get to their potential If someone that's drafted high (top 3) has average potential, then their top end is average. If someone drafted top 3 has high potential then under the right conditions, they become a star (superstar).

I suppose some have it in them to become stars even in conditions that aren't ideal. Their has to be a way to organically represent that as well in Madden.

A model that has dynamic potential that raises and lowers with stats/goals is as far from a realistic model as you can get.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Video - New Scouting & Draft Class Tips (MoonlightSwami)

Imo, there is a fundamental issue with having things in Madden representing or accomplishing things that exist in real life, even intangible but having them perform and/or setup very differently from real life. We know players progress, regress, get evaluated, etc, in real life, so that's understandably what I look at to make sense of what's happening in-game and when they don't behave similar, it can be hard to discuss.

So much of this stuff weaves in and out of realism at various points, at one point it's about "authenticity", then another it's about "video game design", makes it inconsistent and difficult to follow for me at times. Rex even says this at times in regard to game play, basically that doing it like real football accomplishes "sim" and video game fixes, I think that would apply across the board, including for scouting.

[NFCastle]

Re: Scouting (MoonlightSwami)

Finally more variety in the portraits! Looks excellent from what I saw.

Super excited about this feature