PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

[papinho81]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

I would rather play PES 17 demo for a year, than playing the full FIFA 16, there is more variety in play in this demo, than the entire robotic FIFA 16 A.I.

Amen!!!!!!

I would not be surprised if a large part of the off line fifa community make the jump to PES this year. It is surely what I will do.

[Josam27o7]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

1) The referees, yes they are "better" but it doesn't take much to be better than nonexistent. In reality, the referees are still bad, calling only the most egregious fouls.

2) The defending AI remains a weak point, with too much space being given up all over the pitch, because of this most games devolve into back and forth ping pong affairs(the assisted passing also admittedly plays a role)

3) The game's physics remains well behind other sports games, nothing has any weight!

3) Physics - I heard Matt10 say in one of his videos that PES 17 has such amazing physics he is having a hard time putting down the game. And yet you say there are barely any physics? Btw, PES 17 on -2 gamespeed has light years more weight than Madden 17 (which still remains laughably floaty (even on the "very slow" setting) -- the PS2 era of Madden had tons more feeling of being grounded).

2) Defending AI- It is ridiculous to judge this game on its default settings. Why don't you do the same with FIFA? Seems you have an ulterior motive... bc if you were fair with this game, like I am, you would have done what I did which is play on -2 gamespeed, full manual passing. On these settings, after the "demo patch for positioning" this game is highly tactical.

1) Refs - They call only the most egregious fouls? Huh? I have seen tons of fouls called for little pushes, or a foot stuck in slightly wrong, or a ref falling for a player faking contact drawing a foul.

[half-fast]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

3) Physics - I heard Matt10 say in one of his videos that PES 17 has such amazing physics he is having a hard time putting down the game. And yet you say there are barely any physics? Btw, PES 17 on -2 gamespeed has light years more weight than Madden 17 (which still remains laughably floaty (even on the "very slow" setting) -- the PS2 era of Madden had tons more feeling of being grounded).

2) Defending AI- It is ridiculous to judge this game on its default settings. Why don't you do the same with FIFA? Seems you have an ulterior motive... bc if you were fair with this game, like I am, you would have done what I did which is play on -2 gamespeed, full manual passing. On these settings, after the "demo patch for positioning" this game is highly tactical.

1) Refs - They call only the most egregious fouls? Huh? I have seen tons of fouls called for little pushes, or a foot stuck in slightly wrong, or a ref falling for a player faking contact drawing a foul.

3) I always value Matt's opinion, and enjoy reading his posts and watching his videos. I have to say, imo, physics are there in large form or non existent, dependent on what youre talking about. Players definitely have weight, and collision detection that I've seen during fouls shows this. The ball has new physics, but as a computer programmer myself, they feel hard-coded in to simulate basic physics. In other words, I feel the ball physics are fairly poor overall. Certain shots look and feel great, while others feel like they did last year.

1) I agree, I've seen fouls called for minor pushes, tho not often. Another thing I've seen is what seems like wrong calls that are so close, a real ref would miss it, or mistake what happened and make the wrong call. That, I like, but the refs need a slight bit more tuning imo, no doubt.

[KG]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

3) Physics - I heard Matt10 say in one of his videos that PES 17 has such amazing physics he is having a hard time putting down the game. And yet you say there are barely any physics? Btw, PES 17 on -2 gamespeed has light years more weight than Madden 17 (which still remains laughably floaty (even on the "very slow" setting) -- the PS2 era of Madden had tons more feeling of being grounded).

2) Defending AI- It is ridiculous to judge this game on its default settings. Why don't you do the same with FIFA? Seems you have an ulterior motive... bc if you were fair with this game, like I am, you would have done what I did which is play on -2 gamespeed, full manual passing. On these settings, after the "demo patch for positioning" this game is highly tactical.

1) Refs - They call only the most egregious fouls? Huh? I have seen tons of fouls called for little pushes, or a foot stuck in slightly wrong, or a ref falling for a player faking contact drawing a foul.

I like Madden 17 but the player weight comment is dead-on. There are a lot of times in Madden where I don't even feel like I have control of my players, especially WR's after they make a catch.

[Josam27o7]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

3) I always value Matt's opinion, and enjoy reading his posts and watching his videos. I have to say, imo, physics are there in large form or non existent, dependent on what youre talking about. Players definitely have weight, and collision detection that I've seen during fouls shows this. The ball has new physics, but as a computer programmer myself, they feel hard-coded in to simulate basic physics. In other words, I feel the ball physics are fairly poor overall. Certain shots look and feel great, while others feel like they did last year.

1) I agree, I've seen fouls called for minor pushes, tho not often. Another thing I've seen is what seems like wrong calls that are so close, a real ref would miss it, or mistake what happened and make the wrong call. That, I like, but the refs need a slight bit more tuning imo, no doubt.

3) I agree with your point on ball physics having a sense that they are being simulated. But, since it is quite varied it isn't bothersome -- in essence having great variety in a simulation can make it seem like a true ball-physics system. And that's why I think the ball physics don't hurt the game.

[JimmyDeicide]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Fouls are heavy in favor of the AI not enough called for human.
Might get old.

[orion523]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

3) Physics - I heard Matt10 say in one of his videos that PES 17 has such amazing physics he is having a hard time putting down the game. And yet you say there are barely any physics? Btw, PES 17 on -2 gamespeed has light years more weight than Madden 17 (which still remains laughably floaty (even on the "very slow" setting) -- the PS2 era of Madden had tons more feeling of being grounded).

2) Defending AI- It is ridiculous to judge this game on its default settings. Why don't you do the same with FIFA? Seems you have an ulterior motive... bc if you were fair with this game, like I am, you would have done what I did which is play on -2 gamespeed, full manual passing. On these settings, after the "demo patch for positioning" this game is highly tactical.

1) Refs - They call only the most egregious fouls? Huh? I have seen tons of fouls called for little pushes, or a foot stuck in slightly wrong, or a ref falling for a player faking contact drawing a foul.

As far as physics, I'm talking about foot planting, inertia, things like that. In PES, every player feels loose, they turn on a dime and shoot without effort, missed tackles mean nothing, because defenders easily sprint back without penalty. That's the physics I'm talking about.
As for the refs, I stand by what I said, the CPU is rarely called for fouls that are not cards. Also there are no 50/50 calls. It's simply ignored. Also, don't think I've ever seen advantage played in any of my games with the demo.
And yes, I do judge FIFA but default manual settings. As for an ulterior motive, that's downright silly. I'm 45 years old, fanboyism passed me by years ago. I call them like I see them. Don't really care who agrees, disagrees, gets their feathers ruffled or whatever. Yes I have preferred FIFA over the past several years(since at least 11), but f there ever came a time where I felt PES offers a better overall product, overall now, I'd jump ship. From what I've seen thus far, not this year.

[papinho81]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Hi Orion!

As far as I can remember you were not particularly positive about fifa16 neither, right?

[DBMcGee3]

That's an exaggeration. Bundesliga will (I'm assuming) have all their kits, but 98% of the players will have generic faces because they will have to be created one by one by whoever is generous enough with their time to create and share them for free. Same with any other league that isn't already in the game in some form or another. It's why I always roll my eyes when people talk about including the MLS in an option file.

Fair enough, but I feel like FIFA has the same problems when you're playing with many of the lesser known teams. Lots of generic looking faces that stick out like a sore thumb when compared to the quality scans.

It should also be noted that, while their post launch support comes up short in many areas, at least Konami patches in new face scans from time to time. How long has FIFA been rolling with that ridiculously inaccurate David Silva face now? I usually get my option files from Daymos, and to me he does an adequate job of updating player info and likenesses over the course of the season.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Compared to PES 16, I'm ridiculously excited for this game. I did not expect a full blown out, new, game. I expected a 16.5 with some added tactics. I did not expect a bit more physical game or better ball physics.

When your expectations are as low as it is coming in, it's hard not to get excited about what has already been shown. I remember we had very little information and even breaths of it possibly being a mobile only game, lol.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Compared to PES 16, I'm ridiculously excited for this game. I did not expect a full blown out, new, game. I expected a 16.5 with some added tactics. I did not expect a bit more physical game or better ball physics.

When your expectations are as low as it is coming in, it's hard not to get excited about what has already been shown. I remember we had very little information and even breaths of it possibly being a mobile only game, lol.

I hear you I don't think any of us expected it and it has taken a while for them to get the Fox Engine to work well with the game. Even though I still feel there are little bit of the annoying niggles left over from PES 16 I think we can say they are moving in a positive direction.

[Josam27o7]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

As far as physics, I'm talking about foot planting, inertia, things like that. In PES, every player feels loose, they turn on a dime and shoot without effort, missed tackles mean nothing, because defenders easily sprint back without penalty. That's the physics I'm talking about.

We all know we're never gonna get a game that does that on default settings. The herd are casual babies. So why do you expect it? That's why they allow you to switch settings. When you switch gamespeed settings all those things you mentioned matter. So I think your entire framing of this issue is off. It's almost like you are playing dumb on purpose -- and that's why I mentioned an ulterior motive possibility.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

We all know we're never gonna get a game that does that on default settings. The herd are casual babies. So why do you expect it? That's why they allow you to switch settings. When you switch gamespeed settings all those things you mentioned matter. So I think your entire framing of this issue is off. It's almost like you are playing dumb on purpose -- and that's why I mentioned an ulterior motive possibility.

Now, now - Johnny is a well respected brother of OS, so there's no need to go to those depths. I think the statement made is just out of frustration in hopes of getting that football game that we allwant, and the potential of not having it - for another year (going on X amount of years), boils over once in a while.

FIFA's demo isn't out yet, so there is a hard comparision to draw from, other than PES 17 Demo to FIFA 16 current status, and that is definitely not a valid apples to apples comparison.

Let's see how the continued feedback on the PES demo goes when FIFA demo drops next week.

FWIW, I still stand firmly that you can't compare these two games, just have always felt they're after different things, and their entire interface has different intents. This is why I've never had a problem with getting both, and that's a great problem to have .

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

I went back to 16 to make a few vids for someone who posted in the demo thread.

It's shocking, the differences.

I went to 2 pes forums last night and was reading through demo threads and was amazed at the amount of people that said "feels like 16" "looks like 16"

I have no clue what demo people are looking at or playing. Maybe they need to go back and play 16 again.

It's night and day and painfully obvious, the differences.

16 is stiffer and the middle of the pitch is wide open always.

17 is pretty damn silky and the D plays much tighter.

Oh yeah, that was the other part of most of the posts at those forums. Feels like 16 followed up by I can't seem to score.

Been awhile since a game truly had me excited for it to come out but PES 17 is doing that right now.

[Josam27o7]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Also, don't think I've ever seen advantage played in any of my games with the demo.

Just played one match and there were two times an advantage was played by the cpu. It's definitely in there. But I do hope the full game improves on the logic of advantages.