PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

[KG]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Just played one match and there were two times an advantage was played by the cpu. It's definitely in there. But I do hope the full game improves on the logic of advantages.

I wish PES had some on-screen notification like FIFA where it lets you know there is an advantage. Sometimes the ref in PES is trailing the play and you can't tell if there's an advantage.


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[orion523]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Hi Orion!

As far as I can remember you were not particularly positive about fifa16 neither, right?

No. I though FIFA 16 started out brilliantly, but the succession of patches all but ruined the game for us sim players. The final patch did make some improvements, but overall, yes I would categorize FIFA 16 as a disappointment.
And yes Matt, you are correct. I am completely frustrated with both games inability to "get it right," and make no mistake, neither game has gotten it right this console generation. FIFA 14 was the closest, but that was more or less a port of past gen.

[Fraser G.]

I wish PES had some on-screen notification like FIFA where it lets you know there is an advantage. Sometimes the ref in PES is trailing the play and you can't tell if there's an advantage.


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The funny thing is - PES started using a notification-based advantage system in Pro Evolution Soccer 3 (Winning Eleven 7). There's no reason why it can't be added now.

[Gnemi]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The more I play the demo, the more I summarize my experiences in one word:

Joy.

It has taken me some time to get used to it, but now I can safely say that I prefer the PES 17 demo gameplay over any football gameplay since PES 5 and 6.

Maybe I'm still overreacting because it's early days and it's only a demo, but I have been keeping my feelings private for fear of blowing things out of proportion. Nonetheless, here are the areas in which I find PES 17 to be vastly superior to any FIFA offering in the last 5 years. Yes, 5 years.

1. Shooting and Passing | Ball Weight: I love the weight of the ball and when it does hit the woodwork or the keeper or a defender's leg, it looks and feels like it had genuine gravity behind it. FIFA, for years, has made deflections look like they hit steel rather than flesh. PES 17 is not perfect, but it's excellent.

2. Dribbling: Auto-feint is fantastic, thanks Nuno for point out how to do that. Now that I've gotten the hang of it, I feel quite competent in tight spaces with just using auto-feint and the special controls button to stop quickly. I even like the dash button much more than the double-tap of the right stick that's used in FIFA. In fact, overall I don't find this category even close. PES 17 is vastly superior to FIFA's dribbling mechanics.

3. Variety: Every single game I've played feels quite different, or at the very least, there is a sort of recipe book for how things will go based on context. This *may* be subject to change and I'm going to be careful with managing my expectations. By the time January rolled around with FIFA 16, it got to the point where it didn't matter if I was playing Bournemouth in August or Real Madrid in a champions league final, the CPU would do the same monotonous crap over and over and over again. I could basically take a smoke break while the CPU attacked (or run out and buy a pack of cigs since I don't smoke).

4. Build-up: the way an attack is put together both by the CPU and by my AI teammates feels fan-effing-tastic. I feel at times, with practice, that I could make my team play like Liverpool in 2013-2014. Conversely, if I want to play back and counter, it feels like an option. There's a sense of freedom in choices and the CPU makes a moderately good dance partner, reacting to whatever I'm doing accordingly, and vice-versa.

5. Aerial game: there is no argument here. Whether it's long-ball, 50/50 challenges, goal kicks, crosses, the way jockeying and aerial affairs are handled through PES is simply superb. In FIFA, I feel like I might as well just flip a coin and pray.

6. Set pieces: no comparison. When you send in a ball from a set piece in FIFA, it's a beach ball that's lofted with zero threat. If you don't go for goal, you're wasting your time. In PES 17, I love that I can finally whip the ball in and give a target man a chance to put his hat on it.

6. Fouls: I think the refs and fouls are extremely good in the PES 17 demo. I love knowing that I can frustrate the CPU into sticking a leg out when guys like Mezil and Iniesta are on the ball. I'm averaging about 4-5 fouls per game, often in dangerous areas of the pitch, which leads me to...

7. CROSSES! - how could I leave this for last? I FRIGGIN' LOVE crossing the ball in PES *and* I love watching the CPU do it. It looks right! There's pace, zip, movement, and quality on the crosses. It's not cheesed like in FIFA where I feel like all I have to do is wait for the exact moment that the CPU defender will sag and I'm guaranteed to score. You can send crosses into the mixer and if your players have the quality aka. Giroud, you have a good chance to at least get your hat on it even if you're defended. You're still not likely to get it on target, but it just looks and feels right.

FWIW, I'm playing on the lightest assisted settings and Superstar with -2 speed. As I get better, I'll do manual.

Now, here are the areas where I feel like PES 17 still needs some help:

1. Tackling is a bit too easy and the CPU dribbles into tackles too frequently. Yes, even on Superstar.

2. Generally, I think the CPU needs a bit more venom, but I'm not sure I'll ever be satisfied there. That said, PES 17 is orders of magnitude better than FIFA 16 in this regard.

3. All the bells and whistles: it's a damn shame, but I know that I might end up having both games this year because I'll love the big shiny ball that EA puts out with all its licenses, presentation, graphics, UI, etc. I understand that Konami are probably broke, but they should at least spend $10-20K on a proper UI/UX designer for their menus. WTF, there is no excuse for this nonsense in 2016! For shame. Even without licenses, they should at least have a beautiful looking interface. That doesn't require FIFA or FA cooperation.

[Josam27o7]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The defending AI remains a weak point, with too much space being given up all over the pitch

After consideration, I think Orion is right.

PES 17 is fundamentally broken.

The issue of the CPU ONLY defending when you get close to its box -- the cpu NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE in closing down spaces higher up the pitch -- the cpu d-line ALLOWING PASSES IN FRONT of them too easily -- .... it makes this game severely lacking. While it can be challenging to break down the cpu around its box, it is too easy to reach the cpu's box (that part of PES is broken). RIP PES 17 -- It's a shame bc everything else in the game is good enough to enjoy.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

After consideration, I think Orion is right.

PES 17 is fundamentally broken.

The issue of the CPU ONLY defending when you get close to its box -- the cpu NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE in closing down spaces higher up the pitch -- the cpu d-line ALLOWING PASSES IN FRONT of them too easily -- .... it makes this game severely lacking. While it can be challenging to break down the cpu around its box, it is too easy to reach the cpu's box (that part of PES is broken). RIP PES 17 -- It's a shame bc everything else in the game is good enough to enjoy.

Kinda hard to judge this properly in a demo where another half of tactics are locked and can't be changed. Plus I truly don't find this to be the case all the time especially on Top Player difficulty. There are times when the Cpu is trailing or tied late in the match when they will press you right in your own half at a goal kick. Things like this force you kick down the field out of fear of losing the ball in your half.

[Matt10]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The more I play the demo, the more I summarize my experiences in one word:

Joy.

It has taken me some time to get used to it, but now I can safely say that I prefer the PES 17 demo gameplay over any football gameplay since PES 5 and 6.

Maybe I'm still overreacting because it's early days and it's only a demo, but I have been keeping my feelings private for fear of blowing things out of proportion. Nonetheless, here are the areas in which I find PES 17 to be vastly superior to any FIFA offering in the last 5 years. Yes, 5 years.

1. Shooting and Passing | Ball Weight: I love the weight of the ball and when it does hit the woodwork or the keeper or a defender's leg, it looks and feels like it had genuine gravity behind it. FIFA, for years, has made deflections look like they hit steel rather than flesh. PES 17 is not perfect, but it's excellent.

2. Dribbling: Auto-feint is fantastic, thanks Nuno for point out how to do that. Now that I've gotten the hang of it, I feel quite competent in tight spaces with just using auto-feint and the special controls button to stop quickly. I even like the dash button much more than the double-tap of the right stick that's used in FIFA. In fact, overall I don't find this category even close. PES 17 is vastly superior to FIFA's dribbling mechanics.

3. Variety: Every single game I've played feels quite different, or at the very least, there is a sort of recipe book for how things will go based on context. This *may* be subject to change and I'm going to be careful with managing my expectations. By the time January rolled around with FIFA 16, it got to the point where it didn't matter if I was playing Bournemouth in August or Real Madrid in a champions league final, the CPU would do the same monotonous crap over and over and over again. I could basically take a smoke break while the CPU attacked (or run out and buy a pack of cigs since I don't smoke).

4. Build-up: the way an attack is put together both by the CPU and by my AI teammates feels fan-effing-tastic. I feel at times, with practice, that I could make my team play like Liverpool in 2013-2014. Conversely, if I want to play back and counter, it feels like an option. There's a sense of freedom in choices and the CPU makes a moderately good dance partner, reacting to whatever I'm doing accordingly, and vice-versa.

5. Aerial game: there is no argument here. Whether it's long-ball, 50/50 challenges, goal kicks, crosses, the way jockeying and aerial affairs are handled through PES is simply superb. In FIFA, I feel like I might as well just flip a coin and pray.

6. Set pieces: no comparison. When you send in a ball from a set piece in FIFA, it's a beach ball that's lofted with zero threat. If you don't go for goal, you're wasting your time. In PES 17, I love that I can finally whip the ball in and give a target man a chance to put his hat on it.

6. Fouls: I think the refs and fouls are extremely good in the PES 17 demo. I love knowing that I can frustrate the CPU into sticking a leg out when guys like Mezil and Iniesta are on the ball. I'm averaging about 4-5 fouls per game, often in dangerous areas of the pitch, which leads me to...

7. CROSSES! - how could I leave this for last? I FRIGGIN' LOVE crossing the ball in PES *and* I love watching the CPU do it. It looks right! There's pace, zip, movement, and quality on the crosses. It's not cheesed like in FIFA where I feel like all I have to do is wait for the exact moment that the CPU defender will sag and I'm guaranteed to score. You can send crosses into the mixer and if your players have the quality aka. Giroud, you have a good chance to at least get your hat on it even if you're defended. You're still not likely to get it on target, but it just looks and feels right.

FWIW, I'm playing on the lightest assisted settings and Superstar with -2 speed. As I get better, I'll do manual.

Now, here are the areas where I feel like PES 17 still needs some help:

1. Tackling is a bit too easy and the CPU dribbles into tackles too frequently. Yes, even on Superstar.

2. Generally, I think the CPU needs a bit more venom, but I'm not sure I'll ever be satisfied there. That said, PES 17 is orders of magnitude better than FIFA 16 in this regard.

3. All the bells and whistles: it's a damn shame, but I know that I might end up having both games this year because I'll love the big shiny ball that EA puts out with all its licenses, presentation, graphics, UI, etc. I understand that Konami are probably broke, but they should at least spend $10-20K on a proper UI/UX designer for their menus. WTF, there is no excuse for this nonsense in 2016! For shame. Even without licenses, they should at least have a beautiful looking interface. That doesn't require FIFA or FA cooperation.

Well said, man. Definitely agree with everything and also the UI/UX importance.

After consideration, I think Orion is right.

PES 17 is fundamentally broken.

The issue of the CPU ONLY defending when you get close to its box -- the cpu NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE in closing down spaces higher up the pitch -- the cpu d-line ALLOWING PASSES IN FRONT of them too easily -- .... it makes this game severely lacking. While it can be challenging to break down the cpu around its box, it is too easy to reach the cpu's box (that part of PES is broken). RIP PES 17 -- It's a shame bc everything else in the game is good enough to enjoy.

A bit dramatic response, don't you think? Just remember that the implementation of all these tactics, advanced or not, have to be complimented by the right formations and especially line height.

Kinda hard to judge this properly in a demo where another half of tactics are locked and can't be changed. Plus I truly don't find this to be the case all the time especially on Top Player difficulty. There are times when the Cpu is trailing or tied late in the match when they will press you right in your own half at a goal kick. Things like this force you kick down the field out of fear of losing the ball in your half.

Yea, same here, Royce. I've settled on Top Player as well. Once we get all the greyed-out options, then we can truly process what this game is going to really be like.

[Thrash13]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

I agree with pretty much everything Gnemi posted about this game! One of the areas he mentioned is the ball weight, and that's so true and a definite positive. Kicking the ball in PES sounds so much more like real life than FIFA. Kinda crazy, but it's probably the first thing I noticed after playing PES 2017 and FIFA 16 back-to-back earlier this week.

PES 2017 seems to have more of the "little things" when it comes to replicating real-life soccer.

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The defensive pressure to me seems fine.

I watch plenty of the sport and quite often see teams constrict towards their own box allowing the team on offense to push up but not into the box.

If you are scoring often because of this then that would be an issue.

I just see the cpu collapsing to protect the goal and me not succeeding in scoring and now they have the ball.

Truly fifa aggravates me more because the defense there relies too much on that damn 1 on 1 toe poke as its main method of ball turnover.

In reality ball turnover mostly occurs through a poorly played ball creating a 50/50 (or worse odds for the offense) situation where the ball is briefly fought for and possession changes.

How often do you see a player step out, challenge a player for the ball and win it? It's too risky which is why it does not happen often.

What I am talking about is offense pushing towards defense situations.

When play is chaotic and nothing is being set up or field position being claimed them yes, this is where challenges fly in and more risky defending takes place.

[Gnemi]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The defensive pressure to me seems fine.
Truly fifa aggravates me more because the defense there relies too much on that damn 1 on 1 toe poke as its main method of ball turnover.

How often do you see a player step out, challenge a player for the ball and win it? It's too risky which is why it does not happen often.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but here's the problem with your latter point: it's fairly easy to regularly nick the ball off the CPU in exactly that way. However, the reverse is not as true in PES 17.

In FIFA, the precise opposite of this is the problem. They program the CPU to defend through magical toe-poke tackles more than anything else.

--

Overall, there is a larger issue here that comes down to optics and preferences. I say this every year, but the task for these programmers, whether it's PES or FIFA, is to simulate what occurs over the course of 90 minutes in a mere 20. Think about that very hard before putting on the trifocals and scrutinizing every single pixel of gameplay. Something has to be done to create chances and goals, not to mention wins and losses. If the CPU defended like real footballers, well, for 20 minutes you'd be lucky to see more than three or four *chances*, period, let alone shots or shots on target.

Optically, I like the way PES 17 is configured. Play vacillates, it's fluid, and at times, yes, it's quite open. But no matter what, it's incredibly varied in the way action on the pitch progresses and my WORD is it fun.

Maybe I've been institutionalized by the effing god-awful FIFA 15 and, to a much lesser extent, FIFA 16. I just know that I am not buying FIFA day one. There is a lot riding on their demo, I can tell you that.

By the way, I probably disagreed with most people in thinking that FIFA 16 ended up being one of the best ever versions of FIFA. I'm just having much more fun with the PES 17 demo, enough so that I quit my very beloved Everton career in FIFA 16...after 8 seasons. *sniff* RIP

I'm pouring one out for you, lads! Except you, John Stones. You can go fornicate yourself, traitor!

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Yep the 1 thing keeping PES from amazing greatness.

Shielding, a shield button, shielding mechanics, etc.

If the cpu was better at simply turning and shielding then the user could not steal it so easy.

I miss a dedicated shielding button so much when I play this game, yes, you can let go of everything, squeeze sprint only and then left stick away to sort of shield but it does not always make the player shield, it's based too much on what the defender is doing and where they are located on the pitch.

This is the 1 thing intriguing me about fifa this year, the revamped shield mechanic.

But if pes had this the cpu could turn and shield, drawing a foul maybe but more than anything protecting the ball at the cost of advancing it, but retaining possession.

Meanwhile I would not have to turn away from pressure, squeeze RT(my sprint button) over and over pointing the stick trying and hoping the shield animation kicks in.

Shame is PES has a shielding animation and it looks very cool.

I have not seen the cpu shield during any of my play sessions.

[papinho81]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

The issue of the CPU ONLY defending when you get close to its box -- the cpu NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE in closing down spaces higher up the pitch

Have you tried to play against Barcelona? They are pressing you like an orange in your own half almost all the game until they get a two goals advantage. It is also quite hard to enter germany half if your are not using the wings. Athletico has a low defensive line but Greizman and Torres are always trying everything to intercept your CB passes. Pressure on through the pitch is really there for me and great news it is varied from one team to another!

I'm just having much more fun with the PES 17 demo, enough so that I quit my very beloved Everton career in FIFA 16...after 8 seasons. *sniff* RIP

Two weeks before the pes demo was released I thought let's do a last fifa16 CM before fifa17 launch but with updated team transfers. I spend almost all my usual fifa time during those two weeks making "all" the transfers using transfermarket website (Serie A was an absolute nightmare and surprisingly enough English PL was quick). I just played one game in this new CM, the day before PES released the demo... I tried to go back to it at the time positioning in PES was not fixed, but man it was impossible to play fifa 16 again such a gap in realism and fluidity between these two games.

So far I can't let the demo down, I only regret those games are limited to 10 mins. I am eagerly waiting for the full game now!

[KG]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Yeah I find pressure to be varied depending upon who I'm playing (Barca - high press) and the score/time. There have been plenty of times where I've had to just clear the ball instead of trying to manual pass my way out of the back. I've learned the hard way in that regard giving up a few easy goals when trying to be slick.

But like Royce said, once the full game drops and tactics aren't locked then we'll probably see even more varied play.

[BL8001]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

There have been plenty of times where I've had to just clear the ball instead of trying to manual pass my way out of the back. I've learned the hard way in that regard giving up a few easy goals when trying to be slick.

Ha ha yes, me too. This was my first oh geez, can't just ping it out fifa style from the back moment.

Passing stats seem to really matter in pes for the "bad" passers, particularly those players under some heat.

On the flip side, it feels great to just clear it out realistically because it gives you a chance to reset your D and get back at it again. Just like RL

[KG]

Re: PES 2017: Impressions of the Demo

Ha ha yes, me too. This was my first oh geez, can't just ping it out fifa style from the back moment.



Passing stats seem to really matter in pes for the "bad" passers, particularly those players under some heat.



On the flip side, it feels great to just clear it out realistically because it gives you a chance to reset your D and get back at it again. Just like RL

Not only that but this yr PES has wayward clearances where you will mi**** the ball depending upon your body position/pressure.

I wish some of it would carry over to shooting tbh


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