Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

[Introspectah]

Within the following spoiler i shall relocate a comment from the thread that has been concerning itself with mainly misleading impressions, as the AI has no default tactical set-up, but is meant to completely adjust itself to your style of play.
Hence why one gets to read such plentifully contrasting reviews, although, most unfortunately, the majority of it have been steeped in dread, as i reckon the general level of competence of the average FIFA player upon embarking on this newest edition must be equally dreadul.

I can relate, with my own experiences.

Here you can read the comment which i initially wrote, and which set off a spark of inspiration within me.
Or rather, which resulted out of such spark.

Spoiler

Right lads, since i've been totally flabbergasted with my gob knocked wide open by having read up on these plentiful reviews that couldn't've reflected a reality further removed from the one i've experienced, i feel compelled to show you guys the other side.

It cannot be that people will choose to leave aside this spectacular rendition of a football game based on stark misconceptions and a general distorted perception that stems from misguided norms and expectations.

So to all those who have brandished the wickedest of refutations and have put forward the most impressively unsound and unripe conclusions, allow me to shed my light on the whole matter by sharing with you footage that will demonstrate to you just how much of a realistic football game '17 allows one to emulate.

Just keep in mind, while watching the footage, that the AI completely adjusts its gameplay to yours, and that is has no built-in purpose besides this adjustment to your style; weaknesses, strengths and all.

So it is very much like a mindless leech, or a robot, say.

But what i soon come to find out, is that it is programmed just perfectly to react to one's style of play with much greater diversity, and realism, than i've ever seen.

Granted, the so-called program of ''scripting (i.e. sure reward vs inexorable punishment) still exists for sure, but this does certainly not prevent one from developing purely fantastic gameplay.

In fact, the dev's really should have told us players this one golden rule.
Namely, that you first gotta make sure, when playing on higher levels of difficulty, to establish a realistically secure and compact defensive organization, before you go expecting of the AI to not play around with you by skyrocketing its pass accuracy and running around you in circles.

If you want the AI to play realistically, you must first check yo' self
before you wrek yo' self, fellas!

Now, now, i will provide footage to back up my promiseful claims, upon request, if you truly want to see '17 for the gem into which it has been polished.

I truly would be devastated to see people come away with such blatantly erroneous perceptions just because they didn't care to take into consideration the AI reflects your own level of competence.
So if you defend weakly on the whole, it will not always exploit this blatant weakness by scoring, but it might just run around in circles, entertain you as a fool, until you get your self together, and contemplate on what your gameplay is worth.

No fouls, you say?
I shall demonstrate to differ.

Question your self, if the AI never fouls me.... does that mean i haven't been posing sufficient threat in order for it to take my players down?

Please copy small fragments of my text if you feel incensed to comment or recommend, as i want as many of you peeps to see this.
And to see the footage, for sure!

I must make a new thread dedicated to re-establishing some direly needed objectivity in here.

As much as i understand every one of your concerns i also understand more than ever how you make the AI play in the way it does.

And you'll see it for your self.

In an amount just short of 10 games i saw more diversity in AI gameplay than i've seen in my entire dysfunctional relationship with this FIFA AI.

Now, now, i hope y'all take this serious.

Request and ye shall receive!

Stay tuned, folks.

I'll start uploading soon.

And for your interest, the settings which i use are set to fully manual in all aspects of the game, slow speed, and legendary difficulty.

I'm so buzzed, i can't even divert my mind from the beautiful experiences it's just had.

I shouldn't've tried out this demo cause now i've lost all patient composure in anticipating the deadline.

[BL8001]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

I could hand you a flag and you could wave it.

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEYAJlrL-ts&feature=em-upload_owner

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfgBe8w-55Y&feature=em-upload_owner

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZlqLW3vnzs

Part 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdOAVGJ7t0E

[talucchesi]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

THANK YOU!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!


I feel as though I have been losing my mind. Ive been questioning if people truly watch football at this point.

I'm so happy someone agrees with me you've honestly made my day!

I can't stop playing this demo. While I think there's some area that need to be improve (This games needs Pes' ball physics [curve and technique] on long balls and chipped through balls], the AI shields a bit too much but it's not impossible to stop not sure where that is coming from, and the free kick system wasn't necessarily broken they changed it a bit too much in my early opinion.)

I even hold the cpu to about 84% pass completion per game on WC so I don't even know what to say about that

Anyway thank for this, about to check out your videos now

[JayD]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Within the following spoiler i shall relocate a comment from the thread that has been concerning itself with mainly misleading impressions, as the AI has no default tactical set-up, but is meant to completely adjust itself to your style of play.
Hence why one gets to read such plentifully contrasting reviews, although, most unfortunately, the majority of it have been steeped in dread, as i reckon the general level of competence of the average FIFA player upon embarking on this newest edition must be equally dreadul.

I can relate, with my own experiences.

Here you can read the comment which i initially wrote, and which set off a spark of inspiration within me.
Or rather, which resulted out of such spark.

Spoiler

Right lads, since i've been totally flabbergasted with my gob knocked wide open by having read up on these plentiful reviews that couldn't've reflected a reality further removed from the one i've experienced, i feel compelled to show you guys the other side.

It cannot be that people will choose to leave aside this spectacular rendition of a football game based on stark misconceptions and a general distorted perception that stems from misguided norms and expectations.

So to all those who have brandished the wickedest of refutations and have put forward the most impressively unsound and unripe conclusions, allow me to shed my light on the whole matter by sharing with you footage that will demonstrate to you just how much of a realistic football game '17 allows one to emulate.

Just keep in mind, while watching the footage, that the AI completely adjusts its gameplay to yours, and that is has no built-in purpose besides this adjustment to your style; weaknesses, strengths and all.

So it is very much like a mindless leech, or a robot, say.

But what i soon come to find out, is that it is programmed just perfectly to react to one's style of play with much greater diversity, and realism, than i've ever seen.

Granted, the so-called program of ''scripting (i.e. sure reward vs inexorable punishment) still exists for sure, but this does certainly not prevent one from developing purely fantastic gameplay.

In fact, the dev's really should have told us players this one golden rule.
Namely, that you first gotta make sure, when playing on higher levels of difficulty, to establish a realistically secure and compact defensive organization, before you go expecting of the AI to not play around with you by skyrocketing its pass accuracy and running around you in circles.

If you want the AI to play realistically, you must first check yo' self
before you wrek yo' self, fellas!

Now, now, i will provide footage to back up my promiseful claims, upon request, if you truly want to see '17 for the gem into which it has been polished.

I truly would be devastated to see people come away with such blatantly erroneous perceptions just because they didn't care to take into consideration the AI reflects your own level of competence.
So if you defend weakly on the whole, it will not always exploit this blatant weakness by scoring, but it might just run around in circles, entertain you as a fool, until you get your self together, and contemplate on what your gameplay is worth.

No fouls, you say?
I shall demonstrate to differ.

Question your self, if the AI never fouls me.... does that mean i haven't been posing sufficient threat in order for it to take my players down?

Please copy small fragments of my text if you feel incensed to comment or recommend, as i want as many of you peeps to see this.
And to see the footage, for sure!

I must make a new thread dedicated to re-establishing some direly needed objectivity in here.

As much as i understand every one of your concerns i also understand more than ever how you make the AI play in the way it does.

And you'll see it for your self.

In an amount just short of 10 games i saw more diversity in AI gameplay than i've seen in my entire dysfunctional relationship with this FIFA AI.

Now, now, i hope y'all take this serious.

Request and ye shall receive!

Stay tuned, folks.

I'll start uploading soon.

And for your interest, the settings which i use are set to fully manual in all aspects of the game, slow speed, and legendary difficulty.

I'm so buzzed, i can't even divert my mind from the beautiful experiences it's just had.

I shouldn't've tried out this demo cause now i've lost all patient composure in anticipating the deadline.

Your check from EA is in the mail.

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Lovely!
Pleasant to read how this validation has made your day.

I felt rather lonesome when wading through the many rudimentary reviews that by sheer number made me begin to doubt my own impressions.

Until i gave it another go today, and was completely blown away by the experience.

There's a lot to be said about it.
So much so that i could depart on a tangent with no apparant end to it.
Obviously it has its negatives, of which you mentioned quite a few with which i agree, for the time being.

However, it also seems rather foolish, of all parties, including my self, to expect to master a particular aspect of the game with such bare amount of time spent on it.

By which i mean to say that this new FK system requires a lot of time and practice to get used to, before we can even grow fond of it.
And isn't that the whole point of professional football?
To put in hours of practice before attaining even a decent level of expertise?

Yet people all over here wanna master something right off the bat.
Although i must add that if you're playing with assisted controls, it is indeed logical of one to expect that.

Manual, however, is a different story.

Loving every bit about the new corner, and penalty system.
And the shots, my my my....the shots!

Finally i can pull off shots i've been trying to hit for years on this sheet game!
Utter sheyet compared to what we've been offered now.

Finally something that starts coming real close to actual football.
Although there's lots of things still wrong with it, which i certainly won't be overlooking or dismissing.

But if you want to respond to my message or expand the discussion, please relocate your self elsewhere, either in PM or another thread of mine, as i want to ensure the links i posted won't end up buried by the conversation(s) which may follow upon it.

[talucchesi]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Your check from EA is in the mail.

Watch his videos and tell me that doesn't look like real football

I swear people who don't like this demo either don't play correct football or don't reeeeaally watch football.

But I think Matt doesn't even like this demo and that flabbergasting for me

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Your check from EA is in the mail.

Lad, my sole motivation is to draw people's attention to the beauty my senses been blessed with.
I can't tolerate people being disallowed from merely seeing what's possible on this game.

But if you play with assisted controls, or haven't watched any of the footage i posted, then you're not the targeted audience---with all due respect.

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

Watch his videos and tell me that doesn't look like real football

I swear people who don't like this demo either don't play correct football or don't reeeeaally watch football.

But I think Matt doesn't even like this demo and that flabbergasting for me

As much as i acknowledge Matt's knowledge in the field of football, the streams i've seen of his gameplay displayed a remarkably amateur approach to the game.

And when you feel the need to amp up the ''first touch control error'' so remarkably high as to complicate each and every control which professional football players should handle with ease, for the most part (except the more challenging controls), which results in a terribly choppy gameplay with every pass and action being at risk to end up in a mess, then that speaks volumes when it comes to one's expectations of how well football should be played.

Like i pointed out earlier, the AI is programmed to adjust itself entirely to your style of play, so if one doesn't even know, or doesn't even bother to train in order to know how to establish a compact defensive organization, how can you expect the game to develop itself realistically?

The dev's should of mentioned to us of what massive importance maintaining a realistically secure defensive organization is.

Once you get this in check, it starts to grow glaringly clear how the AI starts to get a hold of itself, and begins to build-up realistically, with respect to the defensive organization it requires as a prerequisite in order to take the opponent seriously.

Cause if this basic requirement isn't fulfilled, the AI'll just muck about.

Hence, i understand people's worries about the AI.

Don't have to tell me how facked up EA's approach to it is.
It's seriously sickening, and still is, hasn't changed a bit down to its core.

But what has also never changed, is that primarily one needs to discern how realistically one is playing himself, before pointing the finger at a hollow AI which just reflect your own capacities in its execution of play.

I'm vicariously pleased to read you've found the key, mate, now i hope people would succeed in mustering the courage to temporarily deflate their overly sized sense of pride so that they can take a good look at themselves before overly harsly judging the AI in its idiocy.


But, let me beclear, i blame EA as much as any of you for the stupidity of their approach to programming.
Yet there's much more to be taken out of this game than most of you people have mistakenly, and much too early on, presumed.

Take a look at the footage; see for your self and make up your mind. (this to the other readers, not you talucchesi.)

[Matt10]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

As much as i acknowledge Matt's knowledge in the field of football, the streams i've seen of his gameplay displayed a remarkably amateur approach to the game.

And when you feel the need to amp up the ''first touch control error'' so remarkably high as to complicate each and every control which professional football players should handle with ease, for the most part (except the more challenging controls), which results in a terribly choppy gameplay with every pass and action being at risk to end up in a mess, then that speaks volumes when it comes to one's expectations of how well football should be played.

Like i pointed out earlier, the AI is programmed to adjust itself entirely to your style of play, so if one doesn't even know, or doesn't even bother to train in order to know how to establish a compact defensive organization, how can you expect the game to develop itself realistically?

The dev's should of mentioned to us of what massive importance maintaining a realistically secure defensive organization is.

Once you get this in check, it starts to grow glaringly clear how the AI starts to get a hold of itself, and begins to build-up realistically, with respect to the defensive organization it requires as a prerequisite in order to take the opponent seriously.

Cause if this basic requirement isn't fulfilled, the AI'll just muck about.

Hence, i understand people's worries about the AI.

Don't have to tell me how facked up EA's approach to it is.
It's seriously sickening, and still is, hasn't changed a bit down to its core.

But what has also never changed, is that primarily one needs to discern how realistically one is playing himself, before pointing the finger at a hollow AI which just reflect your own capacities in its execution of play.

I'm vicariously pleased to read you've found the key, mate, now i hope people would succeed in mustering the courage to temporarily deflate their overly sized sense of pride so that they can take a good look at themselves before overly harsly judging the AI in its idiocy.


But, let me beclear, i blame EA as much as any of you for the stupidity of their approach to programming.
Yet there's much more to be taken out of this game than most of you people have mistakenly, and much too early on, presumed.

Take a look at the footage; see for your self and make up your mind. (this to the other readers, not you talucchesi.)

You work with what you got, man. You're doing it here. No need to dish out insults.

I think you're on to something, but you're being very conceited about it. That is not going to fly for very long.

Explain what you're doing, show the video and ask questions, but be respectful. It's not that this isn't intriguing stuff, it's that your delivery of it is off-putting and borderline condescending.

I have played 2 games of the demo, 1 on the PS4 and 1 on the PC. There is potential, but it needs sliders and CTT's to be explored. I have no idea what you're doing because it's masked in a sea of poetic dribble.

[talucchesi]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

I just want to end with this.

I've been very critical of Fifa in the past, and was ready to do so again because of how much I like the Pes demo.

But this, this just isn't what I expected. Ive messed with the tactics and teams play faster and their is a difference. I think given time, people will come around.

The funny thing is, I play on assisted controls for this AND Pes. And I can have have the CPU outpossess me in a realistic manner with me trying my hardest. That can't be achieved in this years Pes, not even with me giving 70%. And people claim this game is too fast

The only thing I can kind of agree on is that the passing percentages are too high, but they are on Pes as well with possession teams, so what do you really want....

[Matt10]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

I just want to end with this.

I've been very critical of Fifa in the past, and was ready to do so again because of how much I like the Pes demo.

But this, this just isn't what I expected. Ive messed with the tactics and teams play faster and their is a difference. I think given time, people will come around.

The funny thing is, I play on assisted controls for this AND Pes. And I can have have the CPU outpossess me in a realistic manner with me trying my hardest. That can't be achieved in this years Pes, not even with me giving 70%. And people claim this game is too fast

The only thing I can kind of agree on is that the passing percentages are too high, but they are on Pes as well with possession teams, so what do you really want....

So the solution is simply editing their tactics? If that's the case, that's great. I know Sneaky posted in the demo thread about it too.

People have to remember that we are conditioned by the past. CTT's (tactics) haven't worked correctly since...hell..I can't even remember. So there should be no surprise from others that the general consensus have not explored that as an option. If that's what Intro is talking about, then fine, but there is a much better way to go about it. It is intriguing btw.

[Introspectah]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

You work with what you got, man. You're doing it here. No need to dish out insults.

I think you're on to something, but you're being very conceited about it. That is not going to fly for very long.

Sincere apologies for that, mate.

As i'm putting all of this down at such a rapid velocity which barely leaves any time for corrections in intonation, i realize i'm at risk of coming across as extremely condescending, indeed.

I do realize that.

However, i feel it is my duty to admit that i definitely do look down upon people who have gone all the way without having reflected upon the accountability of their potential as a player in all of this, yet, on the flipside of that, i relate ever so strongly as i've only started to make serious progression as a ''realistic'' player this year.

So, please do forgive the tone of condescension which inevitably slips in, as i can be a presumptuous twat like that.

Yet, as i just mentioned, i relate to y'all naturally, but i lose my respect right at the instance when i sense that someone is completely unwilling to take a good look at himself, and assess his own capacities before condemning a game entirely.

Now, indeed, everyone works with what he's got, yet the main misconception which lies at your foundation is the conviction that you're going to succesfully rewire the AI's methodology by means of persistent slider adjusment.

As much as i understand your ways and ideas, and as much as i respect your work in here, it is downright erroneous, and i can point the way to the solution of most of your problems by means of footage.

The AI basically is a tabula rasa which requires the nourishment of human intelligence in the form of a human opponent in order for it to start drawing from its resources.

Yet the main requirement for the establishment of a realistic AI gameplay, is that you, as the player, begin to put in the hours to finetune your own defensive organization.

If this isn't up to par, you'll see all sorts of wicked manoeuvres being pulled out of the AI's hat, as a means of diversion or such. (i.e. the insanely unfair sequences of consecutive passes, which usually shows the AI (in human terms) can't take you seriously as you aren't meeting the requirements needed in order to establish a realistic gameplay.)

[talucchesi]

Re: Let me demonstrate to you '17's Realism

So the solution is simply editing their tactics? If that's the case, that's great. I know Sneaky posted in the demo thread about it too.

People have to remember that we are conditioned by the past. CTT's (tactics) haven't worked correctly since...hell..I can't even remember. So there should be no surprise from others that the general consensus have not explored that as an option. If that's what Intro is talking about, then fine, but there is a much better way to go about it. It is intriguing btw.

And you guys play on manual which I don't even do. I also consider myself to be one of the best Fifa players around in terms of playing realistically and well as execution

Spoiler

highkey brag I know but I do honestly believe that

and I still have challenging games. I'm about .500 in wins after 15 or so games.

I think this game replicates possession teams better than Pes, while Pes replicates counter attacking teams. But do say Pes get's the tactical side is a bit of a stretch especially considering what you have pointed out in their retreat and attacking mentalities. I actually think this game gets the defensive shape better, especially when it comes to a press. (I bumped up Man U's aggression and press logic in the tactics a few times before games). It's almost spot on here. They take away the wings well in my early opinion.

But to say there's no longballs or this game is too fast is simply incorrect. I don't know how else to put it.

The game does have it's errors however, but you can't tell me this game isn't a better replication of real football than last year