Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

[RaychelSnr]

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The 4 Verts Podcast checked in with Madden Creative Director Rex Dickson to talk a variety of topics relating to Madden NFL 17.

Check out the topics they discussed:

"-Thoughts on stumbling out of the blocks with EA Access and Run/Pass Glitch.

-The patch process and how they approached it.

-Shift from how they define success in a launch.As they move from review based goals to core sentiment feelings.

-"Crowd sourced" development and EA's approach, specifically Madden's approach, to the player first mentality.

-Rex explains the struggle to balance SIM, Casual, and Competitive gamers.

-The tuning process, when to hold steady versus making changes, and how data drives these decisions. Rex specifically addressed the upcoming tuning on the fatigue bug and why it occurred.

-How,and why, the Nano Detection System came to be.

-Competitive gaming, and it's place in Madden's growth going forward.

-.....I also ask him why my WR1 is on the left and not matched up against CB1 by default, and his explanation (kind of)."

Be sure to listen to the podcast and add your thoughts below!

[snc237]

Good podcast. Where OS interviews with ea lol

[SECElit3]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

From my perspective, the eSports discussion, should be very concerning for the simulation/ offline gamer and the hardcore fanbase. May be a tell tale for where the game play is headed in the coming years.

[capa]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

What I took away from this was that Rex cannot hold off corporate and marketing. They will get the kind of game they want...and make no mistake about it, that is NOT a sim experience. They want the game to cater to tourney and casuals...not the sim crowd.

This is evident in the changes that have recently been applied through the tuner. The bottom line is, no matter how hard Rex pushes his hands are tied because when you have corporate investing more than $1 million in tourneys, he has to produce the kind of game and experience that they want. It's not about sim football..it's about fun, exciting, semi-arcade type football where stick skills and knowledge of exploits will determine a winner.

Guys, let's face it...Madden will never get to the point we want it to. Ever. It can't under these parameters. Rex has good ideas and intentions, but he can't execute due to these facts.

C

[SECElit3]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

What I took away from this was that Rex cannot hold off corporate and marketing. They will get the kind of game they want...and make no mistake about it, that is NOT a sim experience. They want the game to cater to tourney and casuals...not the sim crowd.

This is evident in the changes that have recently been applied through the tuner. The bottom line is, no matter how hard Rex pushes his hands are tied because when you have corporate investing more than $1 million in tourneys, he has to produce the kind of game and experience that they want. It's not about sim football..it's about fun, exciting, semi-arcade type football where stick skills and knowledge of exploits will determine a winner.

Guys, let's face it...Madden will never get to the point we want it to. Ever. It can't under these parameters. Rex has good ideas and intentions, but he can't execute due to these facts.

C

I agree with this 100%


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[Tonic]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

I haven't listened to this yet but my stance on sim vs. casual is this - both crowds can be pleased, that's why we have sliders. I've brought up the same point in the NHL forums for years so I'll keep this short.

EA is a business whose primary goal is to make money. They make more money by marketing this game to the casual football fan who wants to see sweet one-hand catches in double coverage and huge hits than to the hardcore fan who wants offensive line injuries and knows the difference between the A gap and the B gap. There are simply more casual gamers in existence than hardcore gamers, and this applies to every video game out there. The company making the game will simply make more sales by appealing to a wider audience than the niche hardcore fans.

However, by having sliders, we are able to tweak the game to our liking (for the most part). You also have to remember that most of us here are of the hardcore variety. So while the majority of people here might have gripes about certain aspects of the game, we are still the minority overall.

Wrapping this up, I like to think that most of the devs are more like us than they are the casual fans. As apparently alluded to in the podcast, the executives/marketing team make the majority of the decisions to influence the final product, which makes sense from a financial perspective. The silver lining to this is as the product makes more sales, they can have more people working on the game overall. Even if they spend 80% working on solely online features, they're still spending 20% of their time working on offline features for us hardcore fans.

With that said, I'm really happy with where we're at in gaming. I haven't played it very much the last 5 years or so, but Madden is the best it's ever been. NHL is by far the best it's ever been. Plenty of good games to keep me occupied and having fun for a long time

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

Listening to Rex talk about the O-Line as being unsexy and how hard of a sell it is to marketing has me really worried. It is by far the most poorly represented aspect in the game and the fact that it's in its current state with so much time seemingly dedicated to it over the past few years is frustrating. It's in need of a complete overhaul but with the way he talks about it, it doesn't seem like that's something that will be able to happen anytime soon.

Maybe it's just me but I also got the impression that the Nano Blitz Detection may not be as much a bandaid as it is a longer term fix which is really disappointing. If they can clean it up and have it trigger properly then it shouldn't really be an issue but with line play in such an awful state, it sucks to have to potentially deal with long term bandaids.

As for the tourney vs. sim stuff, I think it's pretty clear where the game is headed and has been heading the last few years. Part of what has to be frustrating for the sim crowd is the fact that they've been told for years and years now that they're such a small minority but now it seems as if the game is attempting to cater to the minority of a minority of a minority. And while it's completely reasonable with the amount of exposure it's likely to bring to the game, the bottom line is still going to be that those two sides want drastically different games. One side is fine and embraces the unknown and unpredictable while the other vehemently wants stick skills and user input to supersede everything. And while the emphasis on this tourney style will undoubtedly benefit the game in a certain capacity by finding and eliminating true game-breaking exploits, it's also going to hinder certain aspects of the game that can be deemed "random" or uncompetitive from moving forward.

It's not about sim being "holier than thou" or superior to the tourney style, it just comes down to what you want in the game. I want to see all play styles accommodated and they have the tools available to do so in a much better fashion, they're just implemented poorly and/or poorly executed. It also creates this constant contradiction with like how he talks about the kick meter and he was so passionate about not keeping an easier option and forcing players to adapt as to not "half-***" it. But then when it comes to his vision of a "Authentic Football Simulation" those same concessions aren't taken because the tourney crowd wouldn't like it or it'd be a hard sell to the casuals, etc. Obviously a lot of that comes from above Rex's head but it leaves an extremely muddy view of what they're trying to do at times.

[charter04]

Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

Great interview. Rex said some things I assumed where true but, it's good to hear be confirmed.

Some of it I don't like. Some of it I do like. At least he's being up front.

There are positives and negatives about Esports.

Let's face it Madden has been made for competitive gaming forever.

The only difference is now its getting so big that it's forcing them to look at exploits and glitches because of how bad it looks on national tv.

That's good in a way because more time is spent on things that need fixing.

The bad part of it really depends on what side you're on. I'm on the side of wanting random results like inaccurate passes. Or drops. So I'm not for that being taken away (barely there anyway).

If they would just include sliders for everything. Kind of like 2k does. Make them work. We could tune the game exactly how we want for offline play and franchise mode or online franchise.

I can't understand why we are still stuck with the limited number of sliders for a sport that needs the most.


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[335TDC]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

Esports should be limited to Tecmo Bowl, Double Dribble, RBI Baseball, and Cyberball.

Oh! and Nintendo Pro Wrestling.

[fistofrage]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

I've been begging for this for years now, but if I could get just a fumble slider that would only impact the probability of fumbles and nothing else, a QBA that was only for throw accuracy and a field goal accuracy slider that actually worked and good sim stats for the franchise engine, I would be happy.

Its beyond frustrating not seeing any non-Qb fumbles because the fumble slider is the running back ability slider and lowering that just makes a mess of the game. The QBA slider is like the entire offenses total awareness slider. And the FGA slider for years now doesn't work, it causes automatic shanks when put below 30 and FGs are way too easy.

Then they can tune the game however they want and I can use sliders to customize my own gameplay.

[tmart14]

Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

The online aspect of video games has done some damage lately. It is ruining the sim aspect of sports games, it has made every shooter a no or pitiful campaign multiplayer, and all RPGS must now be MMO style.

I would be perfectly ok if online gaming was removed from the industry entirely


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[Hooe]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

The online aspect of video games has done some damage lately. It is ruining the sim aspect of sports games, it has made every shooter a no or pitiful campaign multiplayer, and all RPGS must now be MMO style.

Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.

[fistofrage]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.

I disagree with that last statement. Seems to me they want the best stick skills to prevail always. No random occurences. Fumbles and penalties that are not directly caused by the player they are controlling is taboo.

[Hooe]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

I disagree with that last statement. Seems to me they want the best stick skills to prevail always. No random occurences. Fumbles and penalties that are not directly caused by the player they are controlling is taboo.

A point of difference on one facet of the discussion - user control vs ratings and random events - does not dismiss the fact that the tourney crowd wants agreeably-unrealistic stuff like nano blitzes eliminated from the game. The tourney crowd welcomed gap play and pattern-matching zones in Madden NFL 17 just as much as we here at OS did. Their ideal is winning games in Madden by playing real football.

Heck, one thing that would probably be a tourney player's dream would be some sort of defensive scheme builder. In this hypothetical defensive scheme builder, you the user would not only pick your formations, plays, and personnel groupings, but also you would customize every aspect of your defense - whether your corners play best-on-best or stick to specific sides, whether you align your safeties always to weak/strong side or to boundary/field side, how you set up your blitzes (do you want to blitz weak side? strong side? field side? boundary side? away from a specific OL? towards a specific OL? at a weak RB in pass-protection?).

A lot of the tourney-style players are also YouTube personalities, and anything a single tourney player can do to make his playing style of Madden distinct, unique, and successful compared to another competitor's style gives his channel and brand an advantage over his peers. Thus, they'd eat something like this up - they'd fill their channels with videos of their setups, best players to fit their schemes, etc. etc. all in the context of real-life football concepts.

Meanwhile, members of the sim community would kill for that level of detail and authenticity on the field Madden, would they not? The two groups have different motivations, but they share same goals - a better and more authentic Madden football game.

[tmart14]

Re: Rex Dickson Talks Madden NFL 17 on 4 Verts

Online gaming is one of the best things to happen to video games, period. It's enabled the assembly of communities around games in specific and as a whole and increased interest in what used to be dismissed as a loser-teenage-male-living-in-a-basement activity. In turn the increased interest has earned gaming more popularity and acceptance in the mainstream as a legitimate artistic medium.

The design-by-numbers problem you allude to in AAA occurs regardless whether games have online functionality. That's entirely a function of a publisher controlling the purse strings, being risk-averse, and wanting to ensure return on their investment. You'd still have game publishers analyzing industry trends and copycatting successful mechanics and designs if online gaming didn't exist. Heck, this practice dates back to at least the 1990s; all single-player PC first-person shooter games used to be dismissed as "DOOM clones".

On a similar note, as I alluded to in other threads - the demonizing of the tourney crowd as an enemy of "sim" (whatever that is anymore) feels entirely misplaced to me. They ultimately want the same thing we do - a more authentic NFL experience from Madden.

I agree with some of those. However, overall video game quality has been going downhill since the early 2000s. Is the increased popularity due to online capabilities? Most likely. Sure, that has allowed it to become mainstream, but the cost was that these games now cater to everyone, even though they might play it for only the online part.

Could just be old man grumbling, though. Hahaha


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