Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

[mpd3892]

INTRO: How I Got Here

Spoiler

I think it is important to know what I was looking for and how I came to realize that the answer may very well lie in starting at the ROOKIE level.

Up until recently I had been active here on OS trying to find a way to get a better sim experience from M17. My focus had been on trying to get both the OL/DL interaction to be more lifelike and for CPU QBs to not be so darn accurate.

After trying just about everything I could think of (adjusting sliders, traits and player attributes), I reached a breaking point. I turned away from Madden in frustration.

A few days ago, still thinking about how to get M17 to play sim better, I had a thought. We know that at each level (Pro, AP, AM) the game is geared to give a more challenging experience. In older versions of Madden if you set the game to a certain level you would get a setup where the sliders were all at 50/50. Another level would be 25/50. And another would be 25/75 and etc.

In M17, no matter the level the sliders remain 50/50, yet the game plays harder as you go up the challenge levels.

This got me thinking, why not try ROOKIE and see how it plays. If the sliders are set the same and yet the game plays harder, then maybe something else was being adjusted.

THE EXPERIMENT: What I tried

Here is what I did: I started by deleting my profile from my xBox One menu. I restarted the game and went through the intro. Once past the initial startup I made no adjustments (the setup is as if it were straight out of the box).

One thing to note here. I have the digital version and as such I cannot remove the update. The version I am playing with is with all current updates, patches and tuners.

I then started a new CFM where I selected rookie and a team. From the CFM menu I adjusted subs to 60/80 for all. I then went to game sliders and hit reset. I turned off all helps, set it to 9 min with no runoff. Turned off all visual aids and all assists.

After setting up my team I went in and used PTM to play my preseason games.

I was immediately surprised at what I saw. I saw highly rated QBs and low rated backups play like they should. Both would make bad throws, miss open receivers, move around in the pocket to avoid a rush and gain time to find open receivers. Line play was better (not great). DTs got some push against interior linemen. And so on.

Essentially I saw a game where good players out played bad ones. Some legacy issues remained (punting into the wind, kickers never missing, QBs scrambling only to throw a pass after they crossed the LOS, etc.).

After watching the preseason games I noted that the CPU teams were bad at play calling. I then did the setup where I created a coach for both teams, assigned generic play books and adjusted coach schemes to somewhat match the players on the team. Much better play on the field.

After a few games I started to make small adjustments to penalty sliders to see if they had any affect. They did. Some needed greater adjustments then others, but I could get more of a penalty called by raising that penalty’s slider.

MY NEXT STEP: Slider adjustments to get better and more challenging games

I am still playing around with sliders (both penalty and gameplay) to see what effect, if any, they have on the game. We know QB ACC doesn’t affect actual accuracy, but does it affect CPU OFF play? This and other questions I hope to start to figure out (hopefully with some help from all of you).

YOUR NEXT STEP: What I would ask of you

As with any experiment it is always good to have others try to duplicate what you have done. Also, it helps to have other eyes look at something to get a different perspective.

As ask that you try the following: Follow my steps as I have laid them out (for now). Move through the preseason (it may play differently then regular season games and rivalry games). Pick 4 regular season games with varying matchups. Try to pick games where teams are even, home team is weaker, home team is stronger, etc. Play them out on PTM (have not active part during the game). Watch the gameplay. Let me know what you see.

I think there really is something here that we can work with. With enough input perhaps we can get M17 to play better. We may only be able to get the game to work for Coach Mode players. Hopefully we can get the game to play good for all.

I recently came across the following post:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161115/e5706d3eb626ca224d0d6fe190f767be.png

When I saw this I realized I was done with M17. If the Devs are playing the game, then they too must know of the issues (such as punts into the wind, WR1 lining up on the wrong side, etc.). That being the case, if they are not able or willing to fix such issues, then there is no hope for the rest of us. M17, like most video games, has its flaws. But when there are such major flaws and there is no expected fix, then it is time to move onto a product produced by a company and a team that takes pride in the quality of their work. Granted, there may be issues behind the scenes that we are not privy to that prevent the Devs from making needed fixes, but we can only go off what we can see and learn.

I can understand some of the changes that were made so as to please the money making online tournament play, but to not fix fundamental issues... Unacceptable.

I thank all that took part in this thread and contributed. I truly hope that you are able to find a way to enjoy this game as best as you are able. For me the road has come to a fork. One road leads to a dead end that is M17 and the other to other past times.

Best of luck to all and thank you for your various insights and interests in this thread.

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

In a game a ran (GB vs JAX), the great and accurate A. Rogers made several errant throws. He missed about 5 passes that he normally makes in M17 where he either led the receiver too much or over threw them. He finished at 70%. Bortles missed far more and finished around 55%.

QBs are more apt to make bad passes when throwing beyond their SAC range, when throwing on the run, and when they don't have their feet set. Pressure has a definite affect on accuracy.

[fsu32]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

can you post video of your gameplay ?

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

can you post video of your gameplay ?

Unfortunately no. For one I don't know how to capture the gameplay video. I'm also somewhere over the Atlantic heading to Europe for a business trip (love having WiFi on flights).

If you have a link to instructions on how to capture and add video I can try and do it perhaps this weekend.

I haven't tried, but I would think that you could see some of what I saw by playing a Play Now game on Rookie. It might be worth a try.

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

INTRO: How I Got Here



I think it is important to know what I was looking for and how I came to realize that the answer may very well lie in starting at the ROOKIE level.



Up until recently I had been active here on OS trying to find a way to get a better sim experience from M17. My focus had been on trying to get both the OL/DL interaction to be more lifelike and for CPU QBs to not be so darn accurate.



After trying just about everything I could think of (adjusting sliders, traits and player attributes), I reached a breaking point. I turned away from Madden in frustration.



A few days ago, still thinking about how to get M17 to play sim better, I had a thought. We know that at each level (Pro, AP, AM) the game is geared to give a more challenging experience. In older versions of Madden if you set the game to a certain level you would get a setup where the sliders were all at 50/50. Another level would be 25/50. And another would be 25/75 and etc.



In M17, no matter the level the sliders remain 50/50, yet the game plays harder as you go up the challenge levels.



This got me thinking, why not try ROOKIE and see how it plays. If the sliders are set the same and yet the game plays harder, then maybe something else was being adjusted.



THE EXPERIMENT: What I tried



Here is what I did: I started by deleting my profile from my xBox One menu. I restarted the game and went through the intro. Once past the initial startup I made no adjustments (the setup is as if it were straight out of the box).



One thing to note here. I have the digital version and as such I cannot remove the update. The version I am playing with is with all current updates, patches and tuners.



I then started a new CFM where I selected rookie and a team. From the CFM menu I adjusted subs to 60/80 for all. I then went to game sliders and hit reset. I turned off all helps, set it to 9 min with no runoff. Turned off all visual aids and all assists.



After setting up my team I went in and used PTM to play my preseason games.



I was immediately surprised at what I saw. I saw highly rated QBs and low rated backups play like they should. Both would make bad throws, miss open receivers, move around in the pocket to avoid a rush and gain time to find open receivers. Line play was better (not great). DTs got some push against interior linemen. And so on.



Essentially I saw a game where good players out played bad ones. Some legacy issues remained (punting into the wind, kickers never missing, QBs scrambling only to throw a pass after they crossed the LOS, etc.).



After watching the preseason games I noted that the CPU teams were bad at play calling. I then did the setup where I created a coach for both teams, assigned generic play books and adjusted coach schemes to somewhat match the players on the team. Much better play on the field.



After a few games I started to make small adjustments to penalty sliders to see if they had any affect. They did. Some needed greater adjustments then others, but I could get more of a penalty called by raising that penalty’s slider.



MY NEXT STEP: Slider adjustments to get better and more challenging games



I am still playing around with sliders (both penalty and gameplay) to see what effect, if any, they have on the game. We know QB ACC doesn’t affect actual accuracy, but does it affect CPU OFF play? This and other questions I hope to start to figure out (hopefully with some help from all of you).



YOUR NEXT STEP: What I would ask of you



As with any experiment it is always good to have others try to duplicate what you have done. Also, it helps to have other eyes look at something to get a different perspective.



As ask that you try the following: Follow my steps as I have laid them out (for now). Move through the preseason (it may play differently then regular season games and rivalry games). Pick 4 regular season games with varying matchups. Try to pick games where teams are even, home team is weaker, home team is stronger, etc. Play them out on PTM (have not active part during the game). Watch the gameplay. Let me know what you see.



I think there really is something here that we can work with. With enough input perhaps we can get M17 to play better. We may only be able to get the game to work for Coach Mode players. Hopefully we can get the game to play good for all.



Thank you for reading this and I hope you will try it and post your thoughts.

I just started playing on rookie few days ago! Game play was actually good ! I been playing with slider all turn up to 100 and threshold at 0 . No assist . Game felt like CPU wasn't cheating especially on rookie you would think it would be easy , but I actually lost two game . I'm with you it's worth a try !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

airraid73. It's really surprising. Are you also playing with the latest updates and tuners? I'd be interested to see how much better it in its original version.

Something else I noticed and forgot to mention. With FAT at 50 and Subs at 60/80, I'm seeing realistic subbing. I watched one series where the HB had about 4-5 carries, the last one was for 60+ yards down to about the 25 before being tackled. For the next 3-4 plays the backup was in. The starter then came back in in time to run it in for a TD from about 3 yards out.

I had INJ at 51 and say some injuries where the player went out for a quarter or 2.

I'm wondering if ROOKIE is how the game is meant to be played and changing the skill level messes up everything.

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

Something else that I've noted, but am not entirely sure about. Even though the game is playing out on PTM, it appears that "my" team plays stronger then the CPU team. I've played the same game a couple of times (exiting before the final whistle), changing up which team I'm able to control. Some of the games have been blowouts, while most are competitive.

This might be something worth tracking to see if it holds up.

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

airraid73. It's really surprising. Are you also playing with the latest updates and tuners? I'd be interested to see how much better it in its original version.



Something else I noticed and forgot to mention. With FAT at 50 and Subs at 60/80, I'm seeing realistic subbing. I watched one series where the HB had about 4-5 carries, the last one was for 60+ yards down to about the 25 before being tackled. For the next 3-4 plays the backup was in. The starter then came back in in time to run it in for a TD from about 3 yards out.



I had INJ at 51 and say some injuries where the player went out for a quarter or 2.



I'm wondering if ROOKIE is how the game is meant to be played and changing the skill level messes up everything.

Yes I m playing with tuner and newly updated . It may sounds strange CPU not easy as what ppl may think especially on rookie . I'm the panthers and Cam was about 53% in passing I just finished up a cfm game here the stats from it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

airraid73. Are you playing the game or doing PTM? Also, are you seeing the QBs miss throws, especially Brees? If so, about many bad throws did Brees make?

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

Playing the entire game


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

Run game for CPU (saint) was bad but week before I gave up 100 + yards . Each game had different elements.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

That stat line for Brees looks like it could've been taken off of NFL.com!

I'm with you on how ROOKIE is playing. Before this I never even looked at it, thinking it would be way too easy. Turns out it might just be the best level.

Thanks for providing proof for others to see. Hopefully everyone will give it a try and realize that there is something here. Together we can get a great Madden.

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

That stat line for Brees looks like it could've been taken off of NFL.com!



I'm with you on how ROOKIE is playing. Before this I never even looked at it, thinking it would be way too easy. Turns out it might just be the best level.



Thanks for providing proof for others to see. Hopefully everyone will give it a try and realize that there is something here. Together we can get a great Madden.

I hope so I'm playing a game right now ! And everything is still on point , one thing I'm trying to figure out what best speed I'm on fast right now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mpd3892]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

I'm thinking of plugging in some of the established slider sets on OS to see if playing on ROOKIE really brings out the best in them. I suspect, however, that staying close to default might be the best way to go.

As for the issue of which speed is best. Although I've only tried it on NORMAL with THRESHOLD at 50, I'm thinking of trying SLOW with THRESHOLD at 100 (or close to it). I've tried that in the past and liked what I saw. On the other hand, I also like FAST. You always hear about how fast the NFL game is and I think FAST somewhat captures that idea.

[airraid73]

Re: Rookie Sliders (It Works!)

I'm going to do the same . Test some more , played few games and still no disappoint so far it's plus+ if you have any idea or changes keep me inform or I'll be looking for what you say throughout the boards


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk