What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

[ajra21]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I guess I'll try that but won't that mean that every team I play will run the same few plays in every situation tho. It's not game breaking because it's only a few defenses I've seen so far that run the same plays repeatedly in certain Defensive formations. Just so close to the greatest madden I wish this wouldn't happen. Checked star rating in gameplan and that doesn't seem to be the problem. Trying to find solution

apparently, it makes it more varied and less similar.

[cable guy]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

apparently, it makes it more varied and less similar.

That or a better star system for plays in certain situations? A Fascinating find either way. Almost not the AI. But instead their own
team specific plays, hindering them. Custom playbooks must be incredible to use, if generics are better than the pbs each team is given.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[jmik58]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

AI blockers (all blockers) should have more awareness when it comes to missing or failing on a block. As it stands, blockers will just run straight down field after a missed/failed block. When you miss/fail on a block, fight back and try to engage the guy again ... or look to the immediate left or right for another guy to block. Don't simply accept (or forget?) what just happened and then run down the field. There's this strange phenomenon where the end of a play will have a varying number of blockers who are just running downfield aimlessly instead of finding a block near the immediate area.

[ajra21]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

That or a better star system for plays in certain situations? A Fascinating find either way. Almost not the AI. But instead their own
team specific plays, hindering them. Custom playbooks must be incredible to use, if generics are better than the pbs each team is given.

interesting point to consider.

[Gator86]

Way too easy to convert on fake punts

[Baebae32]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Have the CPU step up in the pocket more. Could even add a pocket awareness rating. Also QBs should keep their feet alive if they have all day to throw. They currently just stand there flatfooted. Keeping their feet alive could help to better simulate them going thru their progressions.

Also how about a couple of slider based (1-100 scale) tendencies for QBs to help alleviate the checkdown issue and differentiate QB play.

1. The first slider could be called "look for" and would have all the available receivers and tight ends on the roster included in a list somewhere in the edit player screen for a QB. Give every available target for the QB a number between 1 and 100. The assigned value will determine how often the QB looks for that receiver on the field. Obviously a 1 would mean hardly ever and 100 would designate a favorite target. This tendency could help tell the AI who it is looking to throw the ball to pre-snap.
Note: Torn between if the numbers should equal 100 or if they could go over in order to simulate a guy who is willing to spread it around like Aaron rodgers. I guess which ever would be easier to code would be best

Example:
Aaron Rodgers: 'Look For" (These numbers are derived from taking the number of targets divided by pass attempts from GB's first 2 games)
Jordy Nelson: 29
Randall Cobb: 21
Adams: 20
Richard Rodgers:7
Jared Cook: 11

In comparison a guy like Trevor Siemian would look like this...
Trevor Siemian: "Look For"
D. Thomas: 22
E. Sanders: 27
V. Green: 13
In these examples you can see that Rodgers would looking to spread the ball around a tad bit more (3 guys above 20) than Siemian who would be looking to get the ball to his 1st or 2nd read. Again this "look for" tendency slider help guide the AI on who to target in the pass game pre snap...now whether or not the guy actually throws the ball to the receiver could be influenced by another tendency called "force throw"
The "force throw" tendency would again be on a 1-100 scale. With this scale however the values do not have to add up to 100 and instead would showcase how aggressive a guy is to throw the ball to his targets in tight windows. Simply put, the higher the number the less amount of separation the receiver needs to generate in order for the AI Qb to pull the trigger. 1 would mean the guy would basically have to be on one side of the field by himself in order to receive a throw and 100 would mean that the AI Qb would force the ball into double and triple coverage. 50 could be the default.

Going back to our Siemian-Rodgers example. In terms of Rodgers You would give a high numbers to Jordy and Cobb (85-90ish) with a slightly smaller drop off for Adams and the rest of his receivers would get the default 50 or higher because Rodgers is a guy who isnt afraid to force it in there. With Siemian you would give Thomas and Sanders slightly higher than the default (55-65ish) and everyone else would get substantially lower than default (25-30) in order to emulate how careful the Broncos want him to be with the ball.
For kicks and giggles Matt stafford's tendencies with calvin johnson out wide would have been
"Look For": 95 , "Force Throw": 5,000

More tendencies could be incorporated for other aspects of QB play that could be on 1-100 scale. The AI could be coded with branching points for different scenarios and the tendencies would dictate how the QB would react. For example your scenarios could be 1) vs pressure, 2) normal pocket, 3) extended time. And now you put different actions for the QB to take on a 1-100 scale

1. Vs Pressure- if the normal amount of time in the pocket is around 3 seconds then the AI could be coded to go into its "vs pressure" tendencies when there is pressure before the 3 second threshold.( these can be branched off into vs pressure middle and vs pressure outside
Example: 'vs pressure outside'
QB: Big Ben (made up values based on what i saw against redskins, no statistical basis)
Step up in pocket: 50
Checkdown: 10
Extend play (rollout): 30
Scramble: 5
Throw Away: 5

And it would be pretty much the same breakdown for the other scenarios of "normal pocket" and "extended time"

I think that if something along the lines of what i have suggested would do wonders for differentiating QB play and would be in the end of robo QB (granted if there are measures taken to better represent inaccurate throws). You would finally be able to feel the difference from playing a Big Ben (extend the play guy) in comparison to a Kirk Cousins (checkdown artist). It would give guys flavor beyond their ratings and even give the generated QBs in draft classes their own signature styles in CFM. Might take a cycle or two but i think its worth it.

[Datninja619]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

This is with USER and CPU AI: I'd like receivers to SIT in zones or at least slow down. There's been so many times where a WR is open in the red zone, but runs from one defender to the next. Leading to a pick

I understand there's spot routes, but if we can't audible to that type of route, then AI needs to understand how to sit in open zones.

[KingV2k3]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I'd say start by improving anything / everything related to QB play and IF they can pull THAT off, THEN move on to other things...

#firstthingsfirst

[drugsbunny]

1. running backs should be able to push blockers forward and/or guide themselves off of blockers (think APF 2k8)
2. Different running styles just as QB's have different throwing styles. They do exist in the game, you just have to know how to juggle. If you take WR's Reggie Diggs or Titus Davis and make them running backs, you will notice they carry the ball lower and it makes for some dope animations. If giving the chance to make running backs with different styles, that would open up the game more.
3. I would like to see a tad bit more control over receivers when the ball is thrown. I would like to be able to create more of a fight for the ball while in the air. I think there needs to be more a disparity between a 5'10 cornerback and a 6'6 receiver.
4. I would like to be able to have a custom camera option. I like the typical madden view but I think there is a happy medium that could be achieved by giving me a custom option.
5. Game speed. In between Slow and Normal is the perfect speed for the game. I wish there was a slider for this instead of a hard option.
5. Although ball physics has seen an upgrade, that upgrade still pales in comparison to the older maddens. Older maddens didn't have balls that clipped through the back wall or slowed down following an incomplete pass.

I feel that madden is a great game of football. I feel like this madden should have been the madden we saw 2-3 years ago. The overall gameplay still has a cheapened feeling from the likes of APF 2k8 but I certainly enjoy the game nonetheless.

[Datninja619]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

It's not an issue with blocking logic, it's the entire foundation of blocking and the OL/DL interactions being fundamentally incorrect.

In it's current format, Madden will never achieve more than a win/loss patty-cake battle limiting the capabilities of the user to fit within the restrictions of the system. If the line has realistic responsibilities, keys, etc., and can play both as an individual and as a unit, then you can make the physical, technique, and intangible ratings all matter.

To date, Madden has never had any of this, which holds the entire game back. Build the trenches first, do it right - the rest will follow. A house without a foundation will not stand, no matter how fresh the paint job...make no mistake, the trenches are the foundation of everything that is football.

Well put. It's extremely frustrating seeing lineman get beat and continue blocking air, instead of trying to protect their QB.

[RogueHominid]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I'd say start by improving anything / everything related to QB play and IF they can pull THAT off, THEN move on to other things...

#firstthingsfirst

This is priority #1 for me. I'd like to see AI that can replicate the play styles of the various types of QBs we see in the league.

I think the AI for pocket movement and scrambling needs to be improved significantly, as does the CPU's sense of when it's best to take a sack or throw the ball away.

I also think the AI needs to be able to render QBs who get rattled easily, those who will hang in the pocket to push the ball downfield, and those who will check down as often as possible to avoid making mistakes. Some of that is trait and ratings related, but I think it's also AI related.

I think the coverage adjustments for zones were good this year, but next year I'd like them to improve the AI for man defenders to reflect different techniques for different play calls.

So yes, QB first. Do that right and then worry about other stuff.

[khaliib]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Even though this could be separated into "Off-Field" and "On-Field", I'll center this around On-Field.

Madden has never really been innovative so beg and borrow aspects from what other games are/may have utilize.

1) "Get the Ball To" mechanism from basketball that allows AI play calling with the focus directed at a certain player, position or preference
- outside/inside run
- outside hash/middle field passing attack
- Witten is set as Dak's #1 read, with Dez as his #2 as his order choice
- P. Harvin Rule = get the ball to such a player in any way possible

2) "Line Change" mechanism of Hockey that's based on what coach is trying to achieve
- subs dictated by game circumstance (short yardage, 3rd & long, pass rush etc...)

3) "Hot/Cold Pitch Zone" mechanism of Baseball that highlights an individual players strength/weaknesses at that position and AI uses as a variable of attack
- CB is strong on simple out/in routes, but weak and gets beat easily on double moves
- Safety is strong as a hard hitter, but weak at tackling and easily gets juked
- WR strength is speed/quickness, but weak in running sharp/correct routes

And so on, and so on!!!

I'm quiet sure others could note mechanisms in other games that would be useful to improving the AI system as a whole in Madden.

Point being is that "All New" in Madden just means that it wasn't implement/use in last couple releases and since there's nothing new under the sun that's really changed the sport (per say), so there's no need not to use mechanisms already being used elsewhere.

What ever they choose to do, no matter how much improved it may be, if EA continues to hide/lock out the gamer from greater liberty towards "Customizing" their AI experience, it won't matter.

CUSTOMIZATION, CUSTOMIZATION, CUSTOMIZATION is key!!!

[NDAlum]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Put me down for QB play being the #1 focus. Every aspect needs to be looked at with QB play. I want to feel like I'm playing the actual QB with regards to ratings/tendencies.

I won't bother with my other wants at this time.

[roadman]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

This is priority #1 for me. I'd like to see AI that can replicate the play styles of the various types of QBs we see in the league.

I think the AI for pocket movement and scrambling needs to be improved significantly, as does the CPU's sense of when it's best to take a sack or throw the ball away.

I also think the AI needs to be able to render QBs who get rattled easily, those who will hang in the pocket to push the ball downfield, and those who will check down as often as possible to avoid making mistakes. Some of that is trait and ratings related, but I think it's also AI related.

I think the coverage adjustments for zones were good this year, but next year I'd like them to improve the AI for man defenders to reflect different techniques for different play calls.

So yes, QB first. Do that right and then worry about other stuff.

This post should quoted again and again. I hope this is at the top of their list.

[Charvalos]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

In fact, they just need to delete the last patch. ^^

With the Chargers, on AP, I played against the Broncos : Payton Lynch was at something like 17/21 for almost 280 yds and 2 TD. I left the game and then, I simulated the match : my team won the game 21-0 and Lynch only threw for 97 yds, 0 TD and 0 INT.

Sometimes, I feel like the ratings doesn't matter anymore when you're playing the game but when you're simulating the game, it matter.