I thought this year "stick skills matter".

[BryceDouglasRules]

So far pro am hasn't changed since this year came out. 2 glass cleaners setting screens for 3 wings who can all shoot the lights out. And the park is just a bunch of half court shots.

Can't really speak for PNO or my league. But this is probably the most casual and LEAST skills needed to be good at this game ever.

The 3 point contest that is the park has always been that way. But this year that contest is pushing the half court line. So what? Next year people gonna be throwing up full court shots?

[juice8822]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

I feel you it's quite sad the state of this game. Devs did a poor job. Far from a simulation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Korrupted]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

A lot of guards can't dribble at all this year hence the constant screens and ton of left/right movement ESPECIALLY PRO-AM players. People have just found an alternative play style which is completely trash IMO but unfortunately it can be effective. On top of that there is no penalty for the left/right this year. Last year it was slowed down a lot when patch 3 dropped. It seems like its back to normal in 2k17.


I dunno how to embed links on the forums but here's a Prime Example. Screen defense was
Absolutely terrible but this is what you see from a lot of guards and wing players in pro am.

https://twitter.com/pvogamingtv/status/802998802126929920

[jeebs9]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

I told people about this very early on It might have been days after the release. But zag zip is real. It might be a different form of it. But it's basically the same thing. It's probably why I haven't been playing this year like I was last year. I feel like I'm playing 2k15 again. Players don't lose the ball like their suppose to on contact.

My problem with the skill matter thing is the stick vs the button. I feel like more people are successfully using the button then the stick. That's been my feeling with offline games.

[phriscaul]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

yeah they are right back to cuddling the lowest common denominator. too busy caring about trash after dark.

[CoolColJ]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

reduce 3 point % by 20% across the board

don't allow people to shoot with any dribble, the same as they do standing still off a catch

dribbling around should tire you out, and reduce your shot %, even without turbo IMO

that should sort most problems out

[jax01]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

agree. this year badges > skills. NBA 2K17 went full-arcade with the addition of HOF shooting badges. You never go full-arcade.

[XxSpiritHunterX]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

The left-right is an issue that has been solved once (or twice/thrice) before, but for some reason comes back with a vengeance still. It also didn't help when moving screens were never called before patches (and still sometimes they don't get called properly imo). I personally knew there was something wrong with the dribbling itself whenever I attempted to chain a dribble move to a basic sizeup (or rhythm dribble in MC) and the follow-up dribble was not inputting properly. So instead of doing a sizeup and connecting it with a crossover, it was actually doing a hesitation for some reason. There is a strange inversion on the dribbling controls while in a sizeup animation at times, but only on the x-axis (left and right on thumbstick). Even outside of sizeups, trying to get by a defender with dribble moves just simply does not work too good, which is why you see more and more dribble spam than ever this year. All in all, any progress they have made with dribbling in the past few years and overlapped it in an attempt to stop exploits. The problem is how simple they made dribbling. Though it is welcome for newer players, the amount of possible moves have actually gone down since they switched to the right stick. Now they are in such an awkward position where no matter what they do, they will have to fix something else and may possible bring to the surface a new mistake in their animations. It's a constant circle of bugs which, in 2K community terms, means one cheese will get patched, leading to more cheese getting discovered. Every game has its imperfections, NBA 2K or any game will never be an exception to that. However, NBA 2K's imperfections have been sticking out like a sore thumb these last few years.

[ILLSmak]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

So far pro am hasn't changed since this year came out. 2 glass cleaners setting screens for 3 wings who can all shoot the lights out. And the park is just a bunch of half court shots.

Can't really speak for PNO or my league. But this is probably the most casual and LEAST skills needed to be good at this game ever.

The 3 point contest that is the park has always been that way. But this year that contest is pushing the half court line. So what? Next year people gonna be throwing up full court shots?

I think there is still skill, surprisingly... but that you have to be a certain build. Like you said, your game has to be mastering the pick and basically being a sharpshooter or shot creator. It's very predictable at least in set up.

The thing that bothers me most about the picks (or the way they were, I dunno if they still are. They supposedly patched illegal picks back in) is that it's not like you set a screen but it's like you walk around and bump people. It's as much of movement by the screener as the dribbler.

The majority of picks, as illegal as they are in the NBA now, do not even create much contact with the defender. The ones that do rarely stumble or drop people like they do in 2k. If you set a pick, you don't just immediately set another pick either.

I mean you can easily look at highlights of pick and rolls in 2016 on youtube and see what it's like. A pick and roll is a good play that is tough to defend IF there is a correct read made by the offense. Even then, you don't get these wide open shots like you do in 2k. 2k believes that a pick should be an almost guaranteed switch, and that's not good, in my opinion.

It'd be nice to see a weakening of the stickiness of picks, add a way that there can be offensive/defensive fouls called by those weird offensive line animations, and a way to make it so that you can't just keep setting picks. So like if you set a pick you have to wait 3-5 seconds to set another.

At least half of the picks, I'd say, even from Brick Walls (less from others) should be complete slips or only serve as a body and create no contact. That'd be realistic. It shouldn't be that setting a pick is the best play you can do. Sure, it encourages people to set picks (because last year it was like NO PICKS EVEN IN RTF), but it's way more of a pick-fest than real bball. There's no reason to not set as many picks as you can as well as trying to impede defenders with other contact animations.

Long post.

-Smak

[BryceDouglasRules]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

Best thing is these bigs dont even bother to run to the paint because there's no stamina penalty for constantly spamming triangle in the paint so it's airways flooded with tiny guards getting blocks on bigs on the way up. Rather than being able to raise up in the paint the animations are so slow you get swatted all the time.

When my slasher kept getting blocked I was pissed but I keep seeing bigs get smacked and I just shake my head.

It's like 2k wants every year to be a chuckfest. There is so much hand holding and ways to get open on the perimeter but it's REALLY hard to do work in the paint.

I've got an athletic finisher and a slasher and I'm having a hard time seeing their value online. Career is a blast, but the athleticism doesn't translate online

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

I find it hilarious how they solved the zig-zag problem last-year but somehow managed to bring it back again this year.

Last year if someone tried to zig-zag when you were next to them the ball would get deflected off your body and it would be a turnover. For whatever reason this year the ball just goes through your body and there is no contact lol.

[isdatyt]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

Zig-zagging will forever be an issue until 2K gets a real momentum system and decent defensive sliding techniques. The game wants to allow an offensive player to change directions quickly. Makes sense, most guards have that ability, but only in certain directions. The game doesn't seem to differentiate which situations to apply that momentum restriction in. For instance, you can't run full-speed, forward, in a straight line then immediately flip directions and turbo in the opposite direction. The game realizes that type of momentum shift is impossible. However it doesn't offer this limitation on lateral movement.

The second part of the problem is the limited defensive tools. If you watch good-elite defenders in the league, they have a lot more movement options than full sprint and choppy sliding. It also hurts that defense doesn't have the same freedom from momentum that offense has in terms of lateral movement, making it pretty much impossible to guard a guy who relies on this type of tactic.

[Thunderhorse]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

The second part of the problem is the limited defensive tools. If you watch good-elite defenders in the league, they have a lot more movement options than full sprint and choppy sliding. It also hurts that defense doesn't have the same freedom from momentum that offense has in terms of lateral movement, making it pretty much impossible to guard a guy who relies on this type of tactic.

This.

2K doesn't help you defensively at all in some situations. I can't share how many times I've watched a ball handler Zig Zag and played great defense with my LDD, just to get some BS ankle brake animation when I don't even touch anything. How is my LDD with HOF Defensive Stopper not able to stay on his feet when I'm not biting on any of his moves and I'm staying home.

You don't want to give the guy the lane to your left or right, so you try to stay centered or even trap them against the sideline and use it as an extra defender, but all they have to do is trigger enough hesitation and crossover moves and it will trigger an ankle break animation. If I try to aggressively cut them off I will usually get beat because the ball will go through my body and most of the time I will fail to force the ball handler to pick up his dribble. In addition to that, reaching or swiping for a steal to stop the ball handler's momentum will often leave me a step behind, just to attempt a chasedown and pray i can get it.

[jyoung]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

I find it hilarious how they solved the zig-zag problem last-year but somehow managed to bring it back again this year.

Last year if someone tried to zig-zag when you were next to them the ball would get deflected off your body and it would be a turnover. For whatever reason this year the ball just goes through your body and there is no contact lol.

Last year, lots of people were complaining about the "bump steals" that would happen whenever they were overdribbling in traffic or trying to dribble right through a defender's body.

So this year, manual on-ball defense has become even less effective now that the offense is able to take the ball wherever they want to, whenever they want to, without having to worry about "bump" turnovers.

The addition of several new automated left trigger foul animations during drives to the basket has not helped the defense out, either. You can just be sitting there in your defensive stance playing good positional defense and then the game will warp you into some stupid auto foul animation that bails out an out of control driver.

It also doesn't help the defense when the game calls a blocking foul 100% of the time if there's any contact between the ball handler and defender as the dribbler is touching the out of bounds line.

agree. this year badges > skills. NBA 2K17 went full-arcade with the addition of HOF shooting badges. You never go full-arcade.

In 2K16, everyone had the gold lockdown defender badge and respectable defensive ratings.

In 2K17, most people only have the bronze lockdown defender badge and below average defensive ratings.

The offense has also gained two badge levels higher than gold (hall of fame and grand badge).

Naturally, the game has become more tilted towards the offense than ever before, and the shooting percentages in Pro Am have become insanely high, even for builds that aren't supposed to be good shooters.

My playmaker with his 74 open three rating is sitting at 53% from three right now in over 100 games played. I have had slasher, athletic finisher, and lockdown defender teammates who are also all shooting above 50% from three in Pro Am. Even glass cleaner centers can hit corner threes with the right combination of ratings, badges, and hot zones.

The badges are just extremely overpowered this year. Pro Am has basically become a 5 on 5 version of NBA Jam where every game is a race to be the first team to trigger your grand badges and get "on fire," at which point you become offensive gods.

I can't share how many times I've watched a ball handler Zig Zag and played great defense with my LDD, just to get some BS ankle brake animation when I don't even touch anything.

The majority of picks, as illegal as they are in the NBA now, do not even create much contact with the defender. The ones that do rarely stumble or drop people like they do in 2k. If you set a pick, you don't just immediately set another pick either.

I wish 2K would take the ankle breaker animations and screen knockdown animations out of Pro Am and confine those to the Park. They don't belong in what's supposed to be a simulation mode given how rarely they occur in real life.

And I say that as someone whose only two characters are a playmaker and post scorer. So it's not just me wishing that my opponents' classes would get nerfed.

[Hellquist]

Re: I thought this year "stick skills matter".

I think there is still skill, surprisingly... but that you have to be a certain build. Like you said, your game has to be mastering the pick and basically being a sharpshooter or shot creator. It's very predictable at least in set up.

The thing that bothers me most about the picks (or the way they were, I dunno if they still are. They supposedly patched illegal picks back in) is that it's not like you set a screen but it's like you walk around and bump people. It's as much of movement by the screener as the dribbler.

The majority of picks, as illegal as they are in the NBA now, do not even create much contact with the defender. The ones that do rarely stumble or drop people like they do in 2k. If you set a pick, you don't just immediately set another pick either.

I mean you can easily look at highlights of pick and rolls in 2016 on youtube and see what it's like. A pick and roll is a good play that is tough to defend IF there is a correct read made by the offense. Even then, you don't get these wide open shots like you do in 2k. 2k believes that a pick should be an almost guaranteed switch, and that's not good, in my opinion.

It'd be nice to see a weakening of the stickiness of picks, add a way that there can be offensive/defensive fouls called by those weird offensive line animations, and a way to make it so that you can't just keep setting picks. So like if you set a pick you have to wait 3-5 seconds to set another.

At least half of the picks, I'd say, even from Brick Walls (less from others) should be complete slips or only serve as a body and create no contact. That'd be realistic. It shouldn't be that setting a pick is the best play you can do. Sure, it encourages people to set picks (because last year it was like NO PICKS EVEN IN RTF), but it's way more of a pick-fest than real bball. There's no reason to not set as many picks as you can as well as trying to impede defenders with other contact animations.

Long post.

-Smak

Top 3 problem with 2K17 is the million screens being called and the shooter, no matter who it is, will make the shot at a 90% clip. The pick and roll in real life isn't that deadly and like you said they don't leave you that wide open. The gameplay this year is unrealistic and straight cheese. A lot of what you see isn't even NBA basketball. Putting a hand or body up doesn't affect your shot and it still goes in.

Stick skills matter because no amount of cheese is going to stop me from putting up 160 points (my average team score since forever). I will still be efficient. I will still have GOAT ball movement. If you play a certain way you're going to win games if you know how to win especially if you played for years with that style.


You do need stick skills to beat the AI cheese and I am guessing in other modes you need it against other humans.