POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

[ojandpizza]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

It's Maj complaining that Toronto doesn't get calls that I'm more so arguing about. DeRozan meanwhile is shooting about as many free throws a game as Westbrook, having the ball less with a lower usage, taking less shots, etc..

And if what he says is completely true DeRozan's foul rate would go down against the "star" teams. Although that logic would be broken considering Toronto made the ECF last year, had two all stars, two players on team USA, and DeRozan's game high for free throws this year is 17 and that game was against Golden State.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Majingir]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

It's quality over quantity though. It's not how many attempts are given, it's the types of calls which are or aren't called that's the issue. One guy can have 15FTA and another can have 6FTA, doesn't mean the guy with 6 has gotten the short end of the stick on calls, some or all of those 3 shooting fouls could be "phantom calls".

Sure, it can all be pointed back to me referring to one team, but it applies around the league. Not even one specific season. It's something even the people in the media on ABC,ESPN,TNT and everything mention too. Might not be on a regular basis, but even they do at times talk about "phantom calls" and "superstar calls" and how certain things won't be called because "it's the final 2 minutes" or "the refs not gonna call that in the playoffs" and things like that.

It's no secret that regular season and playoff officiating is different, just like officiating to start and end a game are different too. Doesn't matter if it's a Bucks-Kings game or Clippers-Celtics, you'll see different officiating in 1st quarter compared to final 2 minutes of 4th.

[ProfessaPackMan]

POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I don't guess there is a way to prove it, but on the reverse there is no way to prove otherwise either.

I've been going to and being a somewhat fan of Memphis ever since a team moved there in 2001. In these past 16 years not once have I felt "man the Grizz just don't get the calls these other teams do". Nor have I ever felt that Kobe, LeBron, or whoever have just stepped on the court and gotten the benefit of whistles that Bonzi Wells or Courtney Lee weren't getting.

You hear a commentator say something about giving the star the benefit of the whistle, and all the sudden it goes from them justifying just one 50/50 play to the reaction that "it's been happening all game long, all season long, every time they have the ball". When in reality it's really not even like that. You could make the argument for any player. I could tally up every time Tony Allen got the benefit of the whistle and come on here and say "he gets all those superstar calls". The problem is people only care when it's a superstar, they don't care when it's a normal player so it goes unnoticed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So it's basically just a conclusion that we came to even though we have no proof that it's true. That's why it's hard to put any real stock into something like that without any real context.

I will say that I'm not naive to the fact that star calls do exist. Not just in the NBA, but all in the NFL with certain QBs, in Baseball with certain players, same in Hockey and even the same in College Hoops and Football.

You personally may not see it and you probably don't go out of your way to look for it either and that's fine because I'm sure most of us here don't. But it'd be extremely naive and ignorant for anyone to think it doesn't exist especially when we've had ex-Officials and ex-players across all Sports pretty much confirm that and that we fans have pretty much seen it with our own eyes.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I don't think they're nonexistent but I think the volume of them and magnitude is just overblown. If there is a 50/50 call on the floor and it goes to Michael Jordan instead of Rex Chapman I don't think it's a big deal. And that's what most of them are, 50/50 calls. It's not like the superstar is just out there getting calls that are ridiculous, or extra calls just because.

We've seen admitted that refs were told to give Kobe the benefit of the doubt whistles after the Lakers sent in tapes of multiple incorrect no calls. But those "benefit of the doubt" calls are still plays where there is contact, where it's questionable. Players aren't out there just getting open shots called for shooting fouls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[King_B_Mack]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Did you just seriously say you could go to Tony ****ing Allen of all people to see superstar players don't get the benefit of the calls moreso than any other player in the league? That's a load of crap and you know it OJ. Come on with this man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ojandpizza]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Did you just seriously say you could go to Tony ****ing Allen of all people to see superstar players don't get the benefit of the calls moreso than any other player in the league? That's a load of crap and you know it OJ. Come on with this man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not what I said, at all lol.

What I said was you can take any player and make a video of all the 50/50 calls that went their way and make it look as if they are getting this "superstar" treatment. Tony Allen was my example, because he's the farthest thing from a superstar.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProfessaPackMan]

POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Like I said, if anyone is saying or thinks that Superstar treatment doesn't exist at all in ANY sport, then that person is one extremely naive individual and that's putting it nicely.

The non nice way is that person is one dumb and naive MFer, lol. Speaking in general, BTW

[Graphik]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Officiating in all sports has become this zest pool of bad calls and inconsistencies. And this is after all the major sports added replay.

I think what they should do is rewrite how they call fouls. What I would like to see is:

A. Stop superstar players from running to the paint and throwing up trash just to get a foul call. Its pretty obvious when it happens so if you rid of this, it will force players to look for a much smarter shot. Not run, chuck and flail.

B. Completely destroy the pump fake, jump into a player foul. It is the most unnatural thing to witness in slow mo when you see the defender try mightily to position his body out of the way only for the shooter to throw hisself at him. I hate it, I hate it.

C. No ticky tack, touch fouls. These are big, grown men. If the fouling player didn't alter a shot or dribble move then there is no need for a whistle. Too many "I touched his hand after he released the shot" fouls. Or the perfect block on a dunk attempt foul. If anyone has ever been on a bball court, a perfect block can be seen and heard. These refs are like 8 feet away and make this call a foul more times than not.

D. The Flop. Made popular by Vlade Divac back in the day....this needs to be eradicated completely. Vlade made it look like a science. Today, it just looks awful watching a 6'10" dude flop after being touched ever so slightly.


Anyway, back to the original point, it would be nice if they let the players play in the crunch. Meaning although the game is bound to get physical, make the calls consistent. The refs know who the aggressive ones are.

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

If this season is of any indication, easy answer is yes.

[VDusen04]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I believe in officials aiming for consistency throughout.

My thought is—for the "let the players decide the game" crowd—the conscious decision to not call a foul is still the official influencing the outcome of a game by deciding to ignore an illegal act being committed, thus delivering an undue advantage to the offending player and team.

To put it another way, it's usually a player's own responsibility when they commit a foul. If you want players to decide the outcome of a game, then they should learn to put themselves in positions in a game's closing seconds that allow them to avoid committing personal fouls. And if they do everything they can and still commit a foul, then that's how the game is played. You tried, you did something illegal (often because the other team did something well enough to put you in that position), then you pay the price.

[bakan723]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

Disgusting. A foul is a foul and changing the rules depending on the players or what point in the game they're in is a ******* joke and one of my biggest problems with the NBA. (especially the superstar treatment in regards to fouls)

[Smallville102001]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

This is my view as well, just call it fair, if you let them play then let them play the whole game, if your calling ticky tack fouls, then do it the whole game, just be consistent in it. I dont like foul fest games, and college has gotten bad about that, so I prefer letting guys play physical without every little touch be called a foul. I also dont like hearing well he is a star. he should get the benefit of calls, that BS, a foul is a foul, dont matter if your the best in the game, or the worst player in the league. Refs will miss calls, they are only human, just as players miss shots, so they will miss a call every now and then, and thats fine, I just ask wether it be a ref in basketball or a ump in baseball, be consistent in your calls the entire game.

Yeah if you call the game the same from start to finish then it lets the players know what they can or cant do and the players can adjust to the way the game has been getting called. Its like in baseball if pictures have been getting called strikes on pitches that are like 3 inches off the plate all game and then all of a sudden later in the game when a picture is trying to take advantage of it he doesn't get calls.

Do people who are saying that the time of the game should determine whether or not a call should be made also believe that a player's status ("superstar calls") should be a factor as well?

I don't believe that superstar players get more calls while out side of James harden that is he gets way to many calls and if not his FG% and his scoring would be worse but for the most part the superstar calls are just a myth. Out side of him I think all players get the same calls its just NBA refs are very inconsistent and that is not matter who has the ball. A player can drive to the basket and get hacked and not get a call but then later on in the game hardly get touched and get a call. I am not suspecting ever call to be perfect but NBA refs are the worst and its not even close. I hate when people say its hard to ref or something to because in baseball you have a lot of plays where guys are out by like .1 seconds at first base yet they get the call right most of the time.

[bakan723]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

[Streets]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

I believe in officials aiming for consistency throughout.

My thought is—for the "let the players decide the game" crowd—the conscious decision to not call a foul is still the official influencing the outcome of a game by deciding to ignore an illegal act being committed, thus delivering an undue advantage to the offending player and team.

To put it another way, it's usually a player's own responsibility when they commit a foul. If you want players to decide the outcome of a game, then they should learn to put themselves in positions in a game's closing seconds that allow them to avoid committing personal fouls. And if they do everything they can and still commit a foul, then that's how the game is played. You tried, you did something illegal (often because the other team did something well enough to put you in that position), then you pay the price.

This is exactly how I feel but I've heard both narratives and was interested in where the community's stands.

I don't believe that superstar players get more calls while out side of James harden that is he gets way to many calls and if not his FG% and his scoring would be worse but for the most part the superstar calls are just a myth. Out side of him I think all players get the same calls its just NBA refs are very inconsistent and that is not matter who has the ball. A player can drive to the basket and get hacked and not get a call but then later on in the game hardly get touched and get a call. I am not suspecting ever call to be perfect but NBA refs are the worst and its not even close. I hate when people say its hard to ref or something to because in baseball you have a lot of plays where guys are out by like .1 seconds at first base yet they get the call right most of the time.

I don't think Harden gets superstar calls more than any other star (and by superstar calls I mean drawing a foul when there isn't contact). He DOES get a lot more calls than other stars but it's because he seeks out contact. Examples are:
1. Pump fake, then jump into the defender when they leave their feet
2. Using the eurostep then driving into someone while they're backpedaling and not set.
3. Bringing his arms up through a defenders arms and launching a shot (usually results in three free throws).
4. Doing this sweeping motion where his arms go through his defenders outstretched arms on layup attempts.

Basically if you reach at all Harden will exploit it and force the ref to make a call. So the options are foul on the other player or a no call, both of which happen frequently which results in
- a lot of free throws for the former - which Harden leads the league in
- a lot of turnovers for the latter - which Harden leads the league in

(This is why the Rockets live with the high TO numbers and sometimes low FG% because you know next time that missed shot or ball going out of bounds will be two free throws for James)

Harden is actually the reason I made this thread because drawing fouls is a skill set he excels at and it sucks when one of his biggest weapons is taken from him in the spirit of players "deciding the game". I think a lot of the fouls he draws should not be fouls (especially the offensive player initiating contact) but it's how the game has always been called, so if they're not going to change the rules, then players like Harden shouldn't be punished when the game is called differently at the end.

Btw: I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion as Harden is not a well-liked player.

[PapaOso]

Re: POLL: Thoughts on refs swallowing their whistles at the end of games?

It's the reason I no longer watch the NBA.