We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gameplay

[NoLeafClover]

2K can patch the game all they want, but if the players who populate the community of the game spend all their time trying to exploit every little flaw in defensive AI, play in the least realistic way possible in order to get a win, and in general just break the game, then there is only so much they can do.

I can't remember a more toxic community in gaming and I've been playing games for over 20 years online; it seems as the game gets more and more successful it continues to attract people who are less interested in basketball and more just want to play "popular games" in a Call of Duty fashion instead of trying to simulate the actual sport.

There really needs to be simulation style restrictions on certain game modes with moderators etc, or a way to "block" people we get matched up with so that we don't match up with them again.

It's especially prevalent in the likes of Park, MyTeam Online and Walk On Pro Am; the behaviour of the average player in this game just has me staring at my screen in disbelief in terms of the willingness to cheese, play selfishly, abuse the pause screen, etc etc.

I think we just need to accept at some point that 2K can't "patch personality" and that the average person has no intention of playing a basketball simulation. Welcome to Call of Duty: NBA.

[ihoopfor206]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

Exactly the point I've been making. The game when played with two deliberate, intelligent adults is incredible. Plays like a dream with settings and whatnot and all the sets and plays BUT I'd say the amount of deliberate people who make any basketball moves is 5-10% TOPS. I always add kids who do play that way whether it's myteam or platnow because I want to build a friends list big enough to always have someone to play sim games against. Matchmaking is the plague bro


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[Comduklakis]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I get what you are saying but I think you are asking too much. I noted a few weeks ago how different I played at 43 than when I was 22. I remember being thrilled to pound the computer with the Magic on NBA Live back in the day when it was still known as Bulls/Suns or whatever teams were in the finals. Exploiting a weakness of the game was how you did it. I enjoyed winning by 60 and seeing how many I could score with lineups that had Nick Anderson at the 4.

Now granted video games have come a long way in realism, graphics, and gameplay, but I remembering how I was at that age (and younger) and how others were when it came to exploiting AI weaknesses and flaws in games (and being irritated by flaws in games that prevented you from winning or accomplishing a mission) I find it hard to be critical of those who exploit flaws in a game today.

[sk8board]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I disagree completely, while 2K gamers are very toxic there are other games who have way more toxic online communities. I play counterstrike and it's full of cheaters from top to bottom. PC gaming is completely ruined from cheaters so I had to quit playing PC games and I have bought an xbox.

i'm not talking about glitches or exploits I'm talking about legit hacks imagine having that in every game and the developer does nothing about it. Trust me it could be worse. gamers will always find a way to exploit, always

also played call of duty and I still do, the game is dead on PC and it used to be extremely toxic now it's not so bad

[kabamaru]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I disagree too.

Online community is no different in any game

However 2k seems to CATER for the Cheesers

I am not gonna go into gameplay mechanics exploits ( problems which exist in other games too but 2k doesn't fix them as soon as others too),

but

Why can you still create a black court with black jerseys and black lines in MyTeam?

Why in MyTEAM there is no jersey selector so you may play against someone with white jerseys away?

Why in PNO there is a Jersey selector but it relies on just the second user to pick up the same color jersey?

Why can a player quick pause the game for 200 times, when it could be limited to 2 pauses per quarter?

All the above issues are fixed in every other online game.

Also other non-specifically gameplay mechanics, why are defensive settings include settings that are OP and are very powerful in-game like Deny-all?

I am not gonna put the blame on a 15 year old guy, when 2k seems to encourage those issues

[KoolAidNoSugar]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

You can blame the community but if you gives someone the opportunity to use exploits 9x out of 10 they use it sadly. People will jump to YouTube to find the new cheese.

I don't enjoy the PNO/MyTeam aspect anymore because people use the cheapest tactics to win.

In PROAM it's there but you can coordinate with friends to stop it. If 2K really took the time to focus on these issues they could be fixed. Thing is whenever they seem to fix one thing they unintentionally break another


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[mongo13clikke]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

Its the nature of video games that when people have/try to beat the cpu theyll try their best to cheese/glitch/exploit the cpu as much as possible. I think the problem with sports games is that you have a better/easier real life comparison at hand as compared to a 2D side scroller (obviously) and you start blaming the cpu as being stupid/bad etc.

Sometimes I think 2k just doesnt WANT to make the cpu smarter than it is now. Research in artificial intelligence and console power is far enough to make it way smarter than its now, im sure. Want realistic help defense? Ok no problem, but 90% of 2ks customers wont be able to beat the cpu anymore then. They need to cater their product to as wide of an audience as possible, and you dont do that by making it super tough out of the box. Ok then give us arcade and simulation modes etc etc., I know, its all possible, its just something im thinking about for a longer time now because I too cant understand why they dont fix their legacy issues.

And toxic community? Nah, just as bad as in any other online game, its the nature of the internet, just stay away from it.

[Lord Bonium]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

When i play online it's walk on 90% of the time so i can only talk about that mode this year.

- Matchmaking needs a lot of work, just the other day i was on a team with what i assume was 5 bigs since my pf was put at pg. The other team didn't seem to have any bigs... You should never be put in any position that isn't your primary or secondary imo.

- To avoid what i consider toxic players. Make a formula that includes average teammate grade and quitting %. Now you can create different levels and you can match people up based on these two factors. This should help people enjoy the mode more. Smart team players will find each other and scrubs can enjoy their cheesy nba jam style against each other. And then you might have a couple levels in between for the regular players.

Simply addressing these two thing would go a long way imo.

Oh yes, after a win, make it like last year so we keep the same teammates. Or at least give us the option:
- Play again or
- Play again with same teammates

[KAJP]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

It's like children, you can't blame little people for acting immature and entitled, but you have to blame the adults that enable and pander to it.

You can't blame the community for the really bad gameplay issues either. If you watch the NBA, most of the shots are facing some sort of contest, and yet the online community loses it's collective **** over contested makes.

At the introduction of the game, Beluba said they wouldn't be tweaking shooting much this year, so they were obviously happy with where the game was, and yet they were caught off guard by people practising and using the new stick mechanism to shoot???!

I now have had to shelve my sharpshooter save because ridiculously late closes are affecting my shooting disproportionately, and on HoF, that's just killed it. So I now have a slasher career, because the 250k vc I spent on that Sharpshooter is now worthless, and yet the company (not the devs) don't give a toss.

Player archetypes are the worst introduction in a 2k game I've played, and that was solely because they want their tournament to be more varied, so again, that's not the communities fault.

I only play career these days because park post 2k15 is boring and monotonous, so I don't even really get involved in 2k community issues, but to summarise, it's not the community that's to blame, it's the people changing/breaking stuff on a continual loop, that gives the kids hope they can moan and get the game however they want.

[sirio994]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I'm not a defender of the game, but this is true. This year's game is solid (after patches). Far from being perfect but solid. I cannot understand those who...

The AI cannot defend a play? Don't use it, auto playcalling is there for you. The worst concept of sports gaming is the "money play".

[Caelumfang]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

It's like children, you can't blame little people for acting immature and entitled, but you have to blame the adults that enable and pander to it.

You can't blame the community for the really bad gameplay issues either. If you watch the NBA, most of the shots are facing some sort of contest, and yet the online community loses it's collective **** over contested makes.

At the introduction of the game, Beluba said they wouldn't be tweaking shooting much this year, so they were obviously happy with where the game was, and yet they were caught off guard by people practising and using the new stick mechanism to shoot???!

I now have had to shelve my sharpshooter save because ridiculously late closes are affecting my shooting disproportionately, and on HoF, that's just killed it. So I now have a slasher career, because the 250k vc I spent on that Sharpshooter is now worthless, and yet the company (not the devs) don't give a toss.

Player archetypes are the worst introduction in a 2k game I've played, and that was solely because they want their tournament to be more varied, so again, that's not the communities fault.

I only play career these days because park post 2k15 is boring and monotonous, so I don't even really get involved in 2k community issues, but to summarise, it's not the community that's to blame, it's the people changing/breaking stuff on a continual loop, that gives the kids hope they can moan and get the game however they want.

You can thank the forums here for the Sharpshooter thing, and the ridiculously late closeouts counting as full contests. Hence why I'm sticking to my LDD for the rest of the game.

[Gosens6]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I'm not a defender of the game, but this is true. This year's game is solid (after patches). Far from being perfect but solid. I cannot understand those who...

The AI cannot defend a play? Don't use it, auto playcalling is there for you. The worst concept of sports gaming is the "money play".

This thread doesn't seem to be for the offline crowd, so I'm just going to come in real quick on this.

This is the worst excuse for defending a product, and I'm so tired of hearing people say this. Playing offline, the AI is incapable of defending a simple pick and roll!! You're telling me, that we should stop using a freaking pick and roll because the AI can't adjust properly and defend it?!

My man, a pick and roll. Sam and others have illustrated that they can drop over 100 points with 1 player using a pick and roll! So we're not supposed to use the most common play in basketball, because the AI isn't smart enough to adjust and defend it using this "amazing", super smart ACE system?

I don't know about you, but the pick and roll isn't a money play in my eyes.

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[sirio994]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

This thread doesn't seem to be for the offline crowd, so I'm just going to come in real quick on this.

This is the worst excuse for defending a product, and I'm so tired of hearing people say this. Playing offline, the AI is incapable of defending a simple pick and roll!! You're telling me, that we should stop using a freaking pick and roll because the AI can't adjust properly and defend it?!

My man, a pick and roll. Sam and others have illustrated that they can drop over 100 points with 1 player using a pick and roll! So we're not supposed to use the most common play in basketball, because the AI isn't smart enough to adjust and defend it using this "amazing", super smart ACE system?

I don't know about you, but the pick and roll isn't a money play in my eyes.

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I agree, the AI is not able to defend the simple p&r. But i'm not refering to it, i'm refering to the katana cut, offball cut. This is an offensive repertory the devs rushed in. To me it was a great feature but not ready to be implemented because of the difensive side.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

2K can patch the game all they want, but if the players who populate the community of the game spend all their time trying to exploit every little flaw in defensive AI, play in the least realistic way possible in order to get a win, and in general just break the game, then there is only so much they can do.

I can't remember a more toxic community in gaming and I've been playing games for over 20 years online; it seems as the game gets more and more successful it continues to attract people who are less interested in basketball and more just want to play "popular games" in a Call of Duty fashion instead of trying to simulate the actual sport.

There really needs to be simulation style restrictions on certain game modes with moderators etc, or a way to "block" people we get matched up with so that we don't match up with them again.

It's especially prevalent in the likes of Park, MyTeam Online and Walk On Pro Am; the behaviour of the average player in this game just has me staring at my screen in disbelief in terms of the willingness to cheese, play selfishly, abuse the pause screen, etc etc.

I think we just need to accept at some point that 2K can't "patch personality" and that the average person has no intention of playing a basketball simulation. Welcome to Call of Duty: NBA.

Sorry, I can't take this seriously.

2K is offering a $250k purse in e-sports. For that money, people are going to do whatever they can to win using everything they can in the game. That's one segment of the "community," but it's the segment 2K has actively cultivated and encouraged.

[NoLeafClover]

Re: We need to start blaming the Community as much as we blame 2K for state of gamepl

I think people are missing the point, nowhere was it that 2K shouldn't be blamed for all the flaws, far from it. The point is that the overall "culture" of the game seems to have changed for the far worse year after year, to the point where it is now.

The gameplay mechanical flaws are exacerbated by the increasing percentage of the community's disdain for actual basketball to do everything possible to "cheese" a win instead of earn one, as the percentage of less true basketball fans and general "gamers" has risen with 2K's increased playerbase and popularity.

In other words, "basketball" isn't what matters to a ton of the current playerbase; "winning at all costs even if it requires cheating the system" is.

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