What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

[timhere1970]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

In fact, they just need to delete the last patch. ^^

With the Chargers, on AP, I played against the Broncos : Payton Lynch was at something like 17/21 for almost 280 yds and 2 TD. I left the game and then, I simulated the match : my team won the game 21-0 and Lynch only threw for 97 yds, 0 TD and 0 INT.

Sometimes, I feel like the ratings doesn't matter anymore when you're playing the game but when you're simulating the game, it matter.

Until you get to the playoffs. Then you can be a 99 overall team against an 80 and you will lose 90% of the time.

[edgevoice]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

My suggestions are based on offline CFM play against the CPU. Overall, the coaching aspect of football appears to be primarily ignored. There are several changes that could make this game over-the-top great if implemented.

First, playcalling is important. Down by 5 points against the Seahawks in the playoffs with under 2 minutes left, I pre-read a cover 1 press robber defense? Are you kidding me? Of course, I threw a 9 route and won the game, but it felt dirty. Assign realistic situational gameplans for the CPU teams and give users more than 9 picks per situation concerning their own playbooks. See Madden 12. You guys nailed it with that edition so you could certainly do it again.

Also, allow the CPU to study what the user likes to run and counter it. That would force the player to mix up his play calls and be on his toes. Allow the CPU to adjust and roll coverage to an often thrown to receiver if necessary.

Finally, clock management, though somewhat improved, needs more fine tuning. I've had the CPU run out of time and not kick a field goal at the end of the first half on a few occasions. These all occurred while the game was still close and a field goal clearly made sense.

[jfsolo]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

The QB AI and the CPU play calling are of equal importance IMO.

[RogueHominid]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

The QB AI and the CPU play calling are of equal importance IMO.

Agreed, and what I'm seeing is that the AI playcalling is purely a function of the neglect of the game plan feature by developers.

You can tell that almost no consideration was given to setting up the default game plans that ship with the game. These determine AI playcalling on both sides of the ball and they're what make the game so bad on so many levels when playing the CPU.

I've gone full custom for these and am now seeing the CPU calling games that remind me of the real team--targeting their best players, running signature schemes, etc.

What this tells me is that the team needs to do the following:

*Have someone fully flesh out each team's offensive and defensive default game plans to reflect the past year's statistics for run : pass ratios, targeting of certain players or concepts in the passing game, personnel groupings, coverage shells and dominant coverage types, blitz percentages, etc.

*Give us a more transparent and straightforward system for adjusting these game plans to our liking than the current star system, which nobody seems to know exactly how it works.

It's hard to overstate how good the game gets when the playcalling is addressed through custom playbooks and game plans. I'm playing on default All Pro and am seeing All Madden level difficulty without any of the all Madden cheese because the CPU is runnings its most effective plays and targeting its best players.

I agree that we need more developer attention on this point and more resources for improving on their work in our own franchises.

[Fist Of Kings]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

- They have got to finally address the legacy issue of robo qbs. I haven't played in a month, mainly because of this. Whatever they do, borrow 2k's badge system, put in position tendencies, whatever, they really need to do something to make players separate themselves from each other. Tom Brady and insert no name qb here ___ play exactly the same. And this goes for any position.

- For whatever reasons, qbs rarely scramble...not sure why that is.

- The adaptive ai(if it exists) needs some serious work. Even on all madden I can run the same toss play, or throw to the te running a post route at will, and not because I'm some beast at the game, but because the ai is too poor to recognize what I'm doing. Frustrating is that sometimes they'll luck out on a play here or there and be in the right defense, yet what do they do next? Completely forget that, and go back to being in the wrong defense.

- The hyped 'improved run game' where elite rbs were supposed to stand out didn't live up to expectations. The only thing I've noticed is that rbs will do the same spin move in the open field...every time. Power back, speed back, they all play like this.

The ai rbs follow the playart to a tee, they don't adapt to what's going on during the play, which is why they still struggle to get decent yardage.

- Wrs still get stuck in that falling out of bounds near the sideline animation too much, especially when they are wide open, and have plenty of room to cut upfield.

- Challenges don't work at all. I'm guessing this has something to do with the physics engine.

- The ai run the ball when they should be passing, especially when they are down big late in games, and as mentioned earlier, they struggle to run the ball anyway.

- Not sure if this is a new problem, but in my experience, I run, run, run to set it up, but the ai doesn't bite on playaction passes. They only 'work' since my wrs beat the dbs covering them.

[reyes the roof]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Make it feel like the AI has some sort of strategy for what they're doing. If I'm stacking the box and shutting down the run, start throwing and try to get me to back off my defense a little. If one of my corners is inferior to the other, attack that side of the field. Make it feel like a game of strategy, currently it feels like each playcall is completely independent of anything that previously happened in the game, and nothing is done to set up a future playcall

[thatphillydude]

The pass defensee on here is terrible. Even the pre-snap selections are useless. You tell them to play inside, they don't. You tell them to break on the ball, they don't. From the pre-snap selection to the severe lack of intelligence on defense in general. You can have elite rated corners but they're too stupid to defend a quick slant. Another problem, massive problem, is any QB, ANY QB you play against is the 2nd coming of drew brees. I can't tell you how many times I knocked a brady, or a Rodgers out of a game just to have some 62 rated no name QB step in and look exactly like a top 3 QB. Release that license so other companies can make NFL games because EA is just lazy

[timhere1970]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

The pass defensee on here is terrible. Even the pre-snap selections are useless. You tell them to play inside, they don't. You tell them to break on the ball, they don't. From the pre-snap selection to the severe lack of intelligence on defense in general. You can have elite rated corners but they're too stupid to defend a quick slant. Another problem, massive problem, is any QB, ANY QB you play against is the 2nd coming of drew brees. I can't tell you how many times I knocked a brady, or a Rodgers out of a game just to have some 62 rated no name QB step in and look exactly like a top 3 QB. Release that license so other companies can make NFL games because EA is just lazy

Good points but i don't feel the development team is lazy. I think they have a major lack of resources to work with and corporate sets priorities. And yes the license plays a huge role in the decisions made by the company. Most of us are upset because we had ideas where a football video game should be in 2016 and ea has not delivered. If I could have looked into the future at madden from 2005 on my original xbox andd saw madden 2017 12 years and rwo consoles later i would be flabergasted at how little improvement happened.

[Smallville102001]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

My biggest issue with the AI is that they don't go to no huddle when they should. The only time the CPU will go to no huddle is if there are less then 2 minutes left in the game. In real life if a team gets the ball and are down by like 2 TD or a FG and TD with 5 minutes left they are going to go into no huddle because not only do you need to score but you need to score fast. In madden they don't and all that does is make a unlikely comeback even less likely to happen in the game.

[roadman]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I would suggest being careful of any kind of license talk.

It is considered a dead beaten horse and causes threads to be locked and closed.

And lazy discussion is not tolerated, either.

There are a litany of issues the AI needs attention to and QB play and CPU playcalling should be at the top of that list.

[KingV2k3]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

There are a litany of issues the AI needs attention to and QB play and CPU playcalling should be at the top of that list.

Agreed on the "Top Two" here, but I'd also add that pass coverage is lacking...particularly, post patch...

Esp. M2M...

They did a great job improving the run game this year with gap assignments, etc...

So if the passing game (and defending the pass) got the same level "bump"?

#allgoodness

[primo_80]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I'd like to see the CPU be more personnel-aware with respect to play-calling / game-day team management.

Things like rolling a safety towards a weaker CB in Cover 1 (which the CPU appears to love on this game), motioning receiving running backs like Danny Woodhead out of the backfield to the slot to create mismatches (and also NOT doing this for power backs like LeGarrette Blount), or avoiding putting weak MCV safeties against great receiving tight ends and slot receivers.

I the user can and will do all of these things because I'm deploying my personnel intelligently. I'd like to see the CPU do a better job of matching me.

I love this take. I think madden does an acceptable job within the confines of the control a user has in a game. Madden has you select a stock play and make pre-play adjustments: by player, grouping, or by audible. Substitutions are instant at the play call screen. 2 minute drills are pretty much handled the same by any computer controlled team.

For madden to take another step forward for the AI, it needs to have a paradigm shift with how games are run. It needs more layers and it needs to move past the dated way it's play call screen is set up. Once it does, the strategy element will rise up to a higher level of game management.

I'd like to see substitutions happen in real time, forcing the coach to commit time to players swapping out from the sidelines and opponents to react accordingly. Seeing that the offense's personnel includes 2 WRs, a TE, and 2 RBs could either mean I Formation with Blount and Develin or 5 Wide with Dion Lewis and James White.

I'd also like to see passive game plan strategies like CM Hooe mentioned. I don't think the user should be forced to take time telling players what to do every play. Obviously madden needs defensive assignments for shadowing receivers. It should also let you tell players how to cover individuals - like pressing or playing off certain receivers.

But what about 3rd down pass rushers or coverage LBs, or rotating linemen. I know users can do this (with some inconvenience), but I don't notice the computer doing this strategically. Basically, I'd just like more baked-in personnel distribution. Not this old depth chart method. Assigning players to only play special teams or to only come in on 3rd and long or to rotate with another player, or to play run support safeties on running downs.

One more thing. I see veteran safeties with regressed speed get burned over and over with no reaction to sub. At least put in halftime adjustments or a system to adapt to what is happening during the game.

[cable guy]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

Madden in it's original release took huge steps in player ratings. They do matter in 17! Traits have a hand in this as well. Continue to improve on that element alone. Now just simply add True Team tendencies and strategy. But also with the ability to adapt. Especially the CPU Defense. But offense as well. Depending the teams overall rating, is also how well they adapt. Obviously Cleveland does not successfully make in game changes as well as New England. That and like I've seen King and road mention, the QB play. Make Overall Ratings matter even more.(again this year took strides in a great direction) For the CPU, continue in the direction of traits. Add more if needed. Audibles at the line, tendencies, etc. That alone would help the CPU offense to play more realistic. That could be good or bad for them, depending how strong the team is.

[epsilon97]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I would like to see the ability to simply focus on taking away a play or two. It would be great if during the game, the game would tell you if your opponent runs the same play twice you could tell your defense to focus on taking away that play. Then the game would recommend a play to defend against it and the players would have much higher play rec and awareness to stop it.

It is ridiculous to know that your opponent is going to run a corner route or drags and you cannot get your defensive players in the right position. I know that user skill and knowledge of defensive plays can combat this, but this would go a long way in getting players to stop spamming the same plays over and over.

[feeq14]

Re: What Does Madden's AI Need to Do Better?

I'd love to see better play calling by the cpu in all areas. Right now they basically run about a dozen plays. They don't manage the clock well, and they don't adjust. I can gash them all day with a running QB and tehy won't change their linebacker assignments. I can stuff the run all day and they won't give up on it. They don't target their start players. So many times I've played against Julio Jones and he's had 1 catch on 3 targets, and not becuase I've double teamed him, the AI just doesn't have the sense to make him a big part of the game plan.

Also the AI still will draft 3 players in the same postion 1, 2, 3. Or will draft a QB 1 overall after drafting one the year before.