Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

Tiburon can't fix a problem if it doesn't actually exist.

Maybe Tiburon doesn't see it as a problem?

Now I can't speak so much for CFM and Play Now, but the AI system is capable of being used to create a desired effect.. This is very prevalent in MUT Challenges; it is a staple of the MUT system to have the AI play a particular way to force the user to win by design, and to create challenge and that tense game experience..

For example - if the challenge involves the user to score in under 2:00 minutes, the start score for user will typically be 6 points below the CPU score, so a TD is required and the extra point leaves the CPU with just a FG needed to win...IF the user doesn't use all the clock, the CPU comeback ability is absurdly good; typically if the CPU has more than ~40 seconds left, you can expect a FG and a loss...

Now, why would this type of AI scripting be necessary? Well, follow the money...MUT is about making more money...That money is made through selling card packs...How can a company sell more product? By making the consumer believe they need it...So, you lose challenges in MUT and the user can be led to believe they just need better players.. Well, you could grind out challenges to earn coins and win player card packages, but you have to win first, so still the user is to believe his team needs to be better "now" to win, so buy player packs... The fact that money is involved is enough to be suspect in regards to rubber banding or comeback engine play... Just follow the money trail...

I have a 92 OVR MUT team, and in a challenge currently available in the Limited Time challenges, against the Raiders, they have an 83 OVR team with a skill level of AP...I can't score too early, and many times I can't make the win. If I score too early, you get a lot of what I mentioned above; a great drive to a FG..Now, I have beaten the challenge, but I have also replayed it multiple times for practice and just to see what I can and can't do against the AI, and I am more likely to lose than win on a per game basis..

For example, the MUT Raiders Corner Sean Smith (85 ovr), 84 speed, 81 M2M - going against my 96 OVR WR Emanuel Sanders (w/chems active) 93 speed, 96 route running, as an example, cannot beat Sean Smith in M2M cover on streak and fade routes.. The CPU will not allow this to happen - UNLESS, I manipulate the AI with route adjustments at the LOS to confuse the CPU....So the game teaches users to manipulate the AI to win..

Now, on Rookie and Pro, the above example matchup would result in a win for Sanders, all day, and it happens..From AP and AM though, the AI is set to not only be more difficult obviously, but to manipulate events in game to achieve any challenge desired..And in MUT you usually have to face AP and AM levels to get the big player cards and rewards.. I assume that such manipulation is not as prevalent in CFM and Play Now because the game situations are broader and thus harder to control, but in a set MUT Challenege, where the game specifics and goals are already outlined for the user, the AI can be made to present any effect desired.

Note - This is merely my observations and opinions, nothing more..I have no concrete proof except for what I have presented above; theory..

ANother issue to consider - Ratings, not that diverse..THus the difference between 84 speed and 93 speed, for example, isn't much of a gap; but the numbers leave people "believing" there is a gap, and thus also would create the mentality that they need to purchase better players, even with slightly better numbers..

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

For me, MUT is a whole different ball of wax and something I don't play, so, obviously, I'm not able to comment on it.

Someone did ask Clint a few days ago about momentum and the AI and basically, what Clint said was there is no such thing in Madden as far as momentum is concerned. The only thing that plays out is dice rolls and fatigue to a certain extent.

I'm assuming they were referencing CFM.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

For me, MUT is a whole different ball of wax and something I don't play, so, obviously, I'm not able to comment on it.

Someone did ask Clint a few days ago about momentum and the AI and basically, what Clint said was there is no such thing in Madden as far as momentum is concerned. The only thing that plays out is dice rolls and fatigue to a certain extent.

I'm assuming they were referencing CFM.

I can understand not playing MUT....I'll just say, it would seem that Clint has a vested interest in saying what he says to the public. Just like people at EA still state that certain ratings matter, like strength for the OL, but still tests prove otherwise..

Ultimately it will be the same as always - we will have people with opposing beliefs/opinions, so we shall leave it alone, and hope CFM in M18 is improved for the overall enjoyment of the fans.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

Maybe Tiburon doesn't see it as a problem?

Now I can't speak so much for CFM and Play Now, but the AI system is capable of being used to create a desired effect.. This is very prevalent in MUT Challenges; it is a staple of the MUT system to have the AI play a particular way to force the user to win by design, and to create challenge and that tense game experience..

For example - if the challenge involves the user to score in under 2:00 minutes, the start score for user will typically be 6 points below the CPU score, so a TD is required and the extra point leaves the CPU with just a FG needed to win...IF the user doesn't use all the clock, the CPU comeback ability is absurdly good; typically if the CPU has more than ~40 seconds left, you can expect a FG and a loss...

Now, why would this type of AI scripting be necessary? Well, follow the money...MUT is about making more money...That money is made through selling card packs...How can a company sell more product? By making the consumer believe they need it...So, you lose challenges in MUT and the user can be led to believe they just need better players.. Well, you could grind out challenges to earn coins and win player card packages, but you have to win first, so still the user is to believe his team needs to be better "now" to win, so buy player packs... The fact that money is involved is enough to be suspect in regards to rubber banding or comeback engine play... Just follow the money trail...

I have a 92 OVR MUT team, and in a challenge currently available in the Limited Time challenges, against the Raiders, they have an 83 OVR team with a skill level of AP...I can't score too early, and many times I can't make the win. If I score too early, you get a lot of what I mentioned above; a great drive to a FG..Now, I have beaten the challenge, but I have also replayed it multiple times for practice and just to see what I can and can't do against the AI, and I am more likely to lose than win on a per game basis..

For example, the MUT Raiders Corner Sean Smith (85 ovr), 84 speed, 81 M2M - going against my 96 OVR WR Emanuel Sanders (w/chems active) 93 speed, 96 route running, as an example, cannot beat Sean Smith in M2M cover on streak and fade routes.. The CPU will not allow this to happen - UNLESS, I manipulate the AI with route adjustments at the LOS to confuse the CPU....So the game teaches users to manipulate the AI to win..

Now, on Rookie and Pro, the above example matchup would result in a win for Sanders, all day, and it happens..From AP and AM though, the AI is set to not only be more difficult obviously, but to manipulate events in game to achieve any challenge desired..And in MUT you usually have to face AP and AM levels to get the big player cards and rewards.. I assume that such manipulation is not as prevalent in CFM and Play Now because the game situations are broader and thus harder to control, but in a set MUT Challenege, where the game specifics and goals are already outlined for the user, the AI can be made to present any effect desired.

Note - This is merely my observations and opinions, nothing more..I have no concrete proof except for what I have presented above; theory..

ANother issue to consider - Ratings, not that diverse..THus the difference between 84 speed and 93 speed, for example, isn't much of a gap; but the numbers leave people "believing" there is a gap, and thus also would create the mentality that they need to purchase better players, even with slightly better numbers..

For the first time in any madden game, I actually played a lot of MUT this year vs CPU, exclusively. So, I know the types of challenges you're describing, and I saw the big differences between rookie/pro (super easy) and all-pro/all-madden (harder, but mostly beatable within 1-2 tries), and I know what u mean about the tough comebacks with 40 seconds left. I started going out of bounds at the 1 if I happened to be scoring on the first play of any challenge. Lol. So, I could run more plays to run clock. And, I have believed in 'scripted' games in CFM, before. But, honestly, I think Clint is telling the truth. I don't think they really have scripting. And, in terms of the MUT challenges, the difficulty often does come from the amount of time left. It's the situation that manipulates things. How many times have u heard a real live announcer say, 'they might've scored too early, here' late in a game only to have the opposing team drive for a game winning TD or FG. I've played enough crazy games vs CPU at this point that I KNEW madden wanted me to lose, lol, only to comeback and eek out a crazy winner. I finally lost my 'conspiracy theory' hat after a couple of those. Lol. And, I don't blame u or anyone for thinking that, as I have in the past as well. But, I finally believe they've actually just created a pretty good game that can actually be tough. I play the same team 10 times, I might kill em 8, lose 1, and maybe have another close one, or something. I really think there is enough random chance in the play calling and gameplay to allow for a tough INT here and there, and/or a couple good QB plays from the CPU that beat me every once in awhile. But, the MUT thing, specifically, yeah, they set up the challenges to be easy, easy, easy, and then hit u with a tough one. All to want better cards, etc, but imo, it's setup by the time limit and score. That's all they need to make it hard enough. And, that does include giving too much time so u have to defend some to win the challenge. But, I no longer believe in the 'madden cheat' or 'scripting'. And, believe me, I used to curse at madden ALL THE TIME for cheating!!!! [emoji6][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

For the first time in any madden game, I actually played a lot of MUT this year vs CPU, exclusively. So, I know the types of challenges you're describing, and I saw the big differences between rookie/pro (super easy) and all-pro/all-madden (harder, but mostly beatable within 1-2 tries), and I know what u mean about the tough comebacks with 40 seconds left. I started going out of bounds at the 1 if I happened to be scoring on the first play of any challenge. Lol. So, I could run more plays to run clock. And, I have believed in 'scripted' games in CFM, before. But, honestly, I think Clint is telling the truth. I don't think they really have scripting. And, in terms of the MUT challenges, the difficulty often does come from the amount of time left. It's the situation that manipulates things. How many times have u heard a real live announcer say, 'they might've scored too early, here' late in a game only to have the opposing team drive for a game winning TD or FG. I've played enough crazy games vs CPU at this point that I KNEW madden wanted me to lose, lol, only to comeback and eek out a crazy winner. I finally lost my 'conspiracy theory' hat after a couple of those. Lol. And, I don't blame u or anyone for thinking that, as I have in the past as well. But, I finally believe they've actually just created a pretty good game that can actually be tough. I play the same team 10 times, I might kill em 8, lose 1, and maybe have another close one, or something. I really think there is enough random chance in the play calling and gameplay to allow for a tough INT here and there, and/or a couple good QB plays from the CPU that beat me every once in awhile. But, the MUT thing, specifically, yeah, they set up the challenges to be easy, easy, easy, and then hit u with a tough one. All to want better cards, etc, but imo, it's setup by the time limit and score. That's all they need to make it hard enough. And, that does include giving too much time so u have to defend some to win the challenge. But, I no longer believe in the 'madden cheat' or 'scripting'. And, believe me, I used to curse at madden ALL THE TIME for cheating!!!! [emoji6][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Glad we can agree we see the same things..And I agree that it can have a lot to do with the timing of the game itself, and how in the tough challenges you notice you generally have to face a team like the Patriots.

I still think back to, I believe 2009, when there was talk of a comeback style of mechanic? Keeps me wondering... and at the very least, it gives me an excuse as to why I lost a game.. heheh

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

Glad we can agree we see the same things..And I agree that it can have a lot to do with the timing of the game itself, and how in the tough challenges you notice you generally have to face a team like the Patriots.

I still think back to, I believe 2009, when there was talk of a comeback style of mechanic? Keeps me wondering... and at the very least, it gives me an excuse as to why I lost a game.. heheh

Comeback code talk arrives once per year in all it's glory.

[Playmakers]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

They're going to get sick of me, but I'm going to spend all Spring, bringing up CPU playbooks, playcalling, and QB A.I. It can't just be about H2H gameplay designing and tuning.

QB AI is terrible in Madden 17

I hope they finally figure out how to give these QB's a TRUE identity on the field

as of now every guy just seems to be the same guy and that's been a problem for a few years now.....taking away the mobile qb almost completely out of this version of Madden just made matters worst.

Hard to believe that we actually had better QB Play in NCAA 14 than Madden 17 despite that game being on a older system.

Then you go back and watch MLB the Show or NBA 2K17 and wonder when will EA catch up to those games in terms of player/qb behaviors on the field

[gr18]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

QB AI is terrible in Madden 17

I hope they finally figure out how to give these QB's a TRUE identity on the field

as of now every guy just seems to be the same guy and that's been a problem for a few years now.....taking away the mobile qb almost completely out of this version of Madden just made matters worst.

Hard to believe that we actually had better QB Play in NCAA 14 than Madden 17 despite that game being on a older system.

Then you go back and watch MLB the Show or NBA 2K17 and wonder when will EA catch up to those games in terms of player/qb behaviors on the field

I completely agree. The game took a step back in qb AI.I've attempted to make the best of it but get frustrated and go back to '16.After the last patch it plays pretty close to where it should be.Qbs are actually a threat to take off running in '16.

I'm kinda surprised about the complacency towards this not getting fixed.Overall I feel the game took a step back this year.

[KingV2k3]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

After the last patch or two, I've noticed that although the QBs have become marginally more mobile, their AWR has fallen off a cliff...

I suspect that in an effort to spoof inaccuracy, they altered the value "behind" the QBA slider, which doesn't make them throw inaccurate passes, it just makes them stupid...

That slider has always been more of an awareness modifier than having any appreciable effect on accuracy, so...

If you jack the CPU QBA slider above default, they do play more similarly to earlier versions of this year's game, but since that slider also affects playcalling (the AI dials up a disproportionate amount of pass plays versus runs when QBA is above default and FUM isn't, etc.) you're off to the races, trying to mitigate all it's other negative effects...

Folks complained about CPU QBA being to high, they "fixed" it the quickest way possible (see above) and "unintended consequence", took the helm...

[BlackBetty15]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

6 games into my CFM, so I have a had a pretty good sample size. AP W/Default slider and the CFM setup workaround that all the slider gurus put out.

1. So the computer Defensive AI is pretty bad at choosing plays and moreover, man coverage is definitely broken. How I know this is I had literally a 383 yd 4 TD day with Sammy Watkins and what kills me is it comes when I audible into a streak route when the FS comes into the box or plays to middle of the field. Just seems like its automatic to bomb. I have had to purposely/mentally take this out of my playcall habit. Also...in the cowboys playbook...pro set...the toss sweep is an automatic 10+ yard every time. every once in a while the AI will scheme against it, but when they do I audible into something, and then audible back into the sweep just to see if they bite and they do every time...I am 6-0 and it seems mostly due to computer playcall and AI.

2. Still some glitches where oddly enough...on the said sweeps from above...the CPU AI gets caught i a glitch while pursuing and they stand still. Happens randomly but check it out for your selves.

3. There is absolutely ZERO individual player quirks in regards to resigning with teams. Teams resign their studs at will and there is no drama. There is no strategy for FA in this game so if I want, I can throw the fair market value and the guy is signed. Easy. No worries of how he feels about the team, the scheme, or even play time. No interaction for convincing.

As someone said earlier...frostbite will fix some animations and visual portions of the game...but there is some real problems with how this game is played. Coaching AI, strategy, playcall, QB tendencies and skill, CFM interaction ect...I am going to keep playing because I enjoy playing it, but I gave up long time ago trying to expect this to be where I think it should. Cant want this game to be better than the designers aspire it to be. Just my .02, but until Madden team brings in people like SCEA does for the show then this will never be what we want it to be.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

I proposed an overhaul to playcalling, even wrote up a high level GDD. Didn't get much traction, but this is a different team from the mostly glorified marketers that were there whenI was. The current team is light years better, I think they'll address it eventually.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Operation Sports mobile app

I'm bringing this post back up make it seen again.

I'm just hoping they separate the sim oriented crowd vs MUT crowd and focus on CPU play calling, challenges, shading, and bring back doubling up the best WR or covering with best corner.

Do this, and the game is exponentially better.

The talent is there, but where is it in the priority scheme of things?

[brettfavre217]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

So today I played to glitchers/cheaters who did a stall glitch when I was kicking their @sses. Their PS4 names are:

skee_ball_21

itsinme

they need to be banned and the glitch needs to be patched. I have video proof. I was playing as the steelers.

[brettfavre217]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

So today I played to glitchers/cheaters who did a stall glitch when I was kicking their @sses. Their PS4 names are:

skee_bo_21

itsinme

they need to be banned and the glitch needs to be patched. I have video proof. I was playing as the steelers.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g...-glitch_webcam

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5g...cheater_webcam

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

QB AI is terrible in Madden 17

I hope they finally figure out how to give these QB's a TRUE identity on the field

as of now every guy just seems to be the same guy and that's been a problem for a few years now.....taking away the mobile qb almost completely out of this version of Madden just made matters worst.

Hard to believe that we actually had better QB Play in NCAA 14 than Madden 17 despite that game being on a older system.

Then you go back and watch MLB the Show or NBA 2K17 and wonder when will EA catch up to those games in terms of player/qb behaviors on the field

Agree with everything up to last sentence. I don't know about the Show, but hear it's a great game.(no PS4) Once 2k figures out how to program defense better,ie better double team logic and fast break logic, then the game will be golden. I traded that game in after the 1st of the year because of those issues.

The CPU QB AI needs major adjusting.

Here's to hoping the separating of modes becomes sooner rather than later.

[strife1013]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Title Update 11 Available Now, Patch Notes Included

I don't know if anyone is seeing an increase in offside or not. Pre patch I had false starts at 54 in the settings (All-Pro) and only got a few for both teams a game. I played one game post patch (I know not a large sample size) and up until the 4th quarter with about 8 mins (out of 15) left on the clock and penalties where fine throughout the game. The opponent had the ball, I was on defense. They literally got 8 false starts in a row, it was annoying to say the least. The next time they had the ball they had several more false starts. I'm going to drop it down to 50 next game and see how that works out.