Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

[RaychelSnr]

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Editor Chris Sanner recently got a chance to go out to 2K and chat with several members of the NBA 2K team about what it was like to go from a member of the OS and Sports Gaming Community to working in gaming. In part one we looked at what each of the guy's experience was going from community member to game creator. Today, in part two, we are looking at misconceptions about what game creation is like along with a discussion on the importance of experience in getting hired in games.

Coming up in future videos we have more conversations on what its like to work in gaming, how to get noticed by game development companies, and how you can help improve games even if you aren't an employee.

As part of this series, we are also wanting to encourage anyone interested in working in gaming to look into it. The results of what former OS'ers have been able to do at 2K Sports in particular speaks for itself.

If you are interested in seeing if you have what it takes, we are encouraging all members of the community to contact Chad Riggleman, a recruiter at 2K Sports, about how you may fit in with their future. E-mail Chad at criggleman@vcentertainment.com.

[DC]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Folks need to see this. Since yall SWEAR everything is so simple

LOL @ DACZAR hitting Mo with the, "IsoAchieved."

[Crunky]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Loving these videos very insightful stuff.

[iFnotWhyNoT]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

We need more of this, great job OS.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Awesome video series so far.

Im glad leftos pointed out how hard it is to fix seemingly simple things. Czar and others have been saying it for a while.

[Retropyro]

Is it really difficult to reduce the games ridiculous loading times that belong more in the days of the Commodore 64 than in 2017?

[ChaseB]

Is it really difficult to reduce the games ridiculous loading times that belong more in the days of the Commodore 64 than in 2017?

Yes, it can be very hard to do that, especially because of how things load in, when they load in, what needs to load in, etc. You can't say let's shorten loading times from 1 minute to 15 seconds (oh and let's make it more interactive, too!) without a lot of engineering work in many cases. And are you going to pull engineers off actual things that will matter more to the final game, or will you say "spend 2 months shortening loading times by fixing the back end" or whatever instead of helping out with Feature X.

[life4eva]

Fix the poor ONLINE gameplay, Such a disgrace in 2017 they still have not figured how to deliver a smooth experience for Online Gamers................

[BegBy]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone. What's shocking is consumer acceptance of their "We're trying, but it's hard" statement. Every industry is filled with new talent/apprentices/greenhorns, etc, but they are also surrounded by experience as to not detract from primary goals.

NBA 2K17 is not a good NBA basketball simulation video game. Fundamentally it is flawed and as long as legacy issues continue to be present in new iterations it will continue to be a bad representation of simulation basketball. Their focus seems to be on game modes that make money which also detracts from simulation basketball.

Everyone knows game development is difficult. So are thousands of other jobs. Typically people won't allow other professionals to perform as poorly as the 2K team have in recent years without some form of accountability. Consumer backlash is dreaded by companies for a reason. When you make a product that isn't quite at the standards people expect and do little about it, all the while working on other aspects of product development that is entirely and expressly focused on making money via an element of the aforementioned less than standard product, consumers should be upset. Most companies wouldn't live through years of that because consumers would avoid buying their crap. Why should game devs get special treatment? Who cares that you've chatted with them on the forums? People need to look at this situation objectively.

Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again. Or be transparent with the community and admit that 2K's focus has been and will be online modes that generate cash as opposed to NBA simulation basketball.

[Retropyro]

Yes, it can be very hard to do that, especially because of how things load in, when they load in, what needs to load in, etc. You can't say let's shorten loading times from 1 minute to 15 seconds (oh and let's make it more interactive, too!) without a lot of engineering work in many cases. And are you going to pull engineers off actual things that will matter more to the final game, or will you say "spend 2 months shortening loading times by fixing the back end" or whatever instead of helping out with Feature X.

Are you serious? If the game took 1 minute to load, I'd be very happy. I can't start this game without a minimum 10 minute wait just to get to the main menu. That is beyond ridiculous. I'm not alone, just go on the 2K Twitter support. Never mind that 2K support is an absolute joke, completely useless.

How can you seriously say that something like this is OK? NBA 2K is the ONLY game with this problem. The post by BegBy below is spot on.

And yes, I would pull engineers off others things, because if my consumers can't even get into the game in a reasonable time (again, we're not talking 1 minute here but 10, minimum) what use is there in fixing anything else. You don't construct a building with a flimsy foundation and put your best people to work on making the apartments look pretty.

[rhein77]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

All these videos do is showcase that hiring people without experience is unsurprisingly, a bad idea. Hiring people with little to no experience and as a result producing less than standard (a metric set by them) product shouldn't be shocking to anyone. What's shocking is consumer acceptance of their "We're trying, but it's hard" statement. Every industry is filled with new talent/apprentices/greenhorns, etc, but they are also surrounded by experience as to not detract from primary goals.

NBA 2K17 is not a good NBA basketball simulation video game. Fundamentally it is flawed and as long as legacy issues continue to be present in new iterations it will continue to be a bad representation of simulation basketball. Their focus seems to be on game modes that make money which also detracts from simulation basketball.

Everyone knows game development is difficult. So are thousands of other jobs. Typically people won't allow other professionals to perform as poorly as the 2K team have in recent years without some form of accountability. Consumer backlash is dreaded by companies for a reason. When you make a product that isn't quite at the standards people expect and do little about it, all the while working on other aspects of product development that is entirely and expressly focused on making money via an element of the aforementioned less than standard product, consumers should be upset. Most companies wouldn't live through years of that because consumers would avoid buying their crap. Why should game devs get special treatment? Who cares that you've chatted with them on the forums? People need to look at this situation objectively.

Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again. Or be transparent with the community and admit that 2K's focus has been and will be online modes that generate cash as opposed to NBA simulation basketball.

Couldn't of said it any better myself. Great post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BegBy]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Are you serious? If the game took 1 minute to load, I'd be very happy. I can't start this game without a minimum 10 minute wait just to get to the main menu. That is beyond ridiculous. I'm not alone, just go on the 2K Twitter support. Never mind that 2K support is an absolute joke, completely useless.

How can you seriously say that something like this is OK? NBA 2K is the ONLY game with this problem. The post by BegBy below is spot on.

And yes, I would pull engineers off others things, because if my consumers can't even get into the game in a reasonable time (again, not we're not talking 1 minute here but 10, minimum) what use is there in fixing anything else. You don't construct a building with a flimsy foundation and put your best people to work on making the apartments look pretty.

A wait time of anything over 3-4 minutes is pushing unacceptable. It's 2017. If they were a smaller studio without the financial resources to employ another 2-3 people for server maintenance or whatever aspect that's failing, I'd understand, but money is not an issue for them. Their actions and lack thereof speak volumes. How that isn't blatantly obvious and downright insulting to more people is beyond me, because I'd bet my last dollar that if it were your mechanic, doctor, cashier at the convenience store, cell phone, cake mix or whatever else you can think of (under)performing like this, whilst telling you it's fine they are just "trying to fix it, but it's hard" each and everyone of us would be irate and stop rewarding them via our money.

[noot]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

A wait time of anything over 3-4 minutes is pushing unacceptable. It's 2017. If they were a smaller studio without the financial resources to employ another 2-3 people for server maintenance or whatever aspect that's failing, I'd understand, but money is not an issue for them. Their actions and lack thereof speak volumes. How that isn't blatantly obvious and downright insulting to more people is beyond me, because I'd bet my last dollar that if it were your mechanic, doctor, cashier at the convenience store, cell phone, cake mix or whatever else you can think of (under)performing like this, whilst telling you it's fine they are just "trying to fix it, but it's hard" each and everyone of us would be irate and stop rewarding them via our money.

The difference is that if you don't like the service in those industries you can take your money elsewhere. But since 2k hasn't had any real competition in a while, they can get away with this kind of stuff because where else are you going to take your money? The sad truth is that these problems will likely remain unless Live or some other game really steps it up.

[RainZ]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Chase must have been talking about the "standard" load times when its not bugging out of like 1 min or 30 seconds. I doubt he meant the glitched load times of 10-15 minutes are acceptable....

Also, no way that is going to be allowed to happen next year lol. They would have seen the backlash no doubt and some a$$ would have been kicked about it...

[basehead617]

Re: Operation Sports at 2K Sports Part Two: The Misconceptions About Game Development

Keep the less experienced staff on. Use their passion and basketball knowledge as it's not something to balk at. However, surround them with more people who can help translate their intangibles into actual code that makes the game good again.

You should probably know more about the topic before writing a rant.

The NBA 2K team is one of the most experienced in the industry, with many top engineers and producers having worked at the studio for 20+ years.

This video just happens to be talking about some of the newer hires.