MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

[Houston]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

I think it has got to the point where originally there was regular lobby rank games etc, then they added online franchise well back then it was just call leagues.

Fast forward in the past few years there is now Diamond Dynasty, Battle Royale, I believe I think Home Run Derby can be played online as well, but my point is all that online stuff going on on 1 particular server. I think with all that overload tons if not a hundred thousand or so syc games going on, tons of people playing rank matches and lord knows how many DD games going on across the world.

Everything is just bogged down now way to much going on there game online since they added DD without making any significant server changes or upgrades.

I remember Madden 11 the old online franchise before there was any connected career EA had a separate server for the online franchise and one for all the rank matches. Back then I never had any issues in there online franchise it was pretty smooth. The only time I can remember having a small problem is when they would put a roster update out or server maintenance it would be down for a little bit. I think EA uses dedicated servers and Howie that use to work for SCEA told me its sorta p2p where its pings off towers or something like that.

All in all its time to upgrade there servers if your going to have everything running at once online. Just my $0.2!!

[335TDC]

A few comments on this line of thinking...

1. OS is a privately owned website that can institute whatever rules it deems necessary. If users don't like it, they don't have to use it. No one is forcing anyone to post here. But, when you do, it has to be by the rules.

2. Even if you don't feel competent to levy "constructive criticism" your wording can go along way to determining whether the post is acceptable or not. Almost 100% of the time when people name-call the devs (or anyone else), that will result in a deleted post at minimum. People know to expect that and the rules are very clear. People that can't get their point across without name-calling either need to remember to breathe before posting or they are not mature enough to be part of this community (theoretically).

3. Furthermore, do you really need to be a software engineer to think constructively--at least in general terms--about what the issues are and how to fix them? I don't think that's the case. You could say that your online experience is very frustrating and that Sony would be wise to change servers or upgrade and I think most people would consider that quite milquetoast and constructive in nature--even if not incredibly detailed. It's when you say it with expletives and accusatory language/name-calling that makes it unpleasant.

4. Your whole Chevy analogy doesn't fit. If you have a problem with a Chevy, you take it up with the dealership/GM. If you have a problem with Sony's game, you take it up with Sony. Venting on a middle man's website (OS) is not completely necessary in getting your issues resolved (or at least communicating your displeasure). Chevy will deal with a lot more heated feedback than OS, because Chevy is selling you a product and wants you to buy another. OS doesn't get any benefit at all from being patient toward irate feedback. Your analogies don't work because you're conflating consumer-business relationships (buying a product directly from a business) with consumer-third party situations (posting about the transaction on a separate message board).

5. As for the idea of putting your money where your mouth is....I totally, unequivocally 100% agree. People can skip next year's edition if they don't like this one and that's a reasonable thing to do. Furthermore, this whole "pre-ordering" glitzy versions is part of the problem. If they don't even need to display their "wares" and prove it to the customer, their model allows them to publish essentially a prototype on launch day and fix it over the ensuing weeks and months as they always do.

As for the blame, well, blame the consumers who knowingly pony up $100+ before the game even comes out with every expectation that they'll be disappointed. Also, blame the suits at Sony Corporate for putting their game developers on unrealistic timelines with a skeleton crew and minimal resources. I'm sure the guys at SDS dislike buggy game releases at least as much as we do. I'm sure they are upset that the rollout was not smooth and they have to figure it out while under fire from very unhappy customers. Personally, this is one of the reasons I am happy to work on editing for a while, lol, before ever playing a game.

Regarding #1, who the heck denied ANY of that? Anybody who posts on here regularly already knows the TOS, but that doesn't mean you can't "constructively criticize" moderator oversensitivity if you think it's there.

OS does a good job overall of moderating comments, but it's certainly conservative and errs on the side of OVERprotecting dev teams (which is the deal you make with the devil if you want them on your site). I am quite pleased with this write-up -- it's very un-OS-like to take a semi-hard stance like it does. Kudos.

[b22gamer]

Have to agree with most of what is being said, but the direct attacks at the devs are not warranted.... You can tell in the streams that the devs eat, sleep and breathe video game baseball. Any issue that presents itself is surely a thorn in the side of anyone who works on the game. Which I think is entirely understaffed.
I think it starts at the top and yes these guys are pressed with unrealistic timelines and minimal resources. It is the same nonsense that went on with EA after they held the exclusive NFL rights. Most recently, EA has put out a decent Pro football game, (still has its flaws) but it took a couple of years for them to do so. Without competition , there is no incentive to get better, because at the end of the day, no one else is pushing you for a share of the market. SDS/Sony need to realize that this game isn't Halo or Destiny, it's a game in a genre that thrives on realism that is true to the sport, but also a game that is PLAYABLE and FUNCTIONAL . How are we able to revel in the beauty of this game each year if we can't appreciate it due to inconsistent servers or constant bugs?

[Speedy]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

I don't think I totally understand this mentality that some in the OS community have around developers. It very much feels like, per those folks, no one is ever, ever, ever to become upset over the way a game releases. You're allowed to provide "constructive criticism", but anything other than that can become reason for deletion of posts or banning (and, for the record, I'm not, by any means, condoning personal attacks on devs).

I disagree.

I think we can be upset and be critical of a game, its development/direction or the implementation of promoted features. MLB The Show has received a lot of criticism this year whether it be it's lack of franchise improvements or the HORRIBLE online experience and various gameplay logic (numerous HRs, bad SP logic).

The issue is when folks come and post in frustration/anger and bash the game because of their annoyance...stating the game is trash, nobody should waste money on this piece of crap, the devs are liars, etc. OS is not going to tolerate that type of childish behavior as the TOS is written and Mill/Steve harbor a mindset that the forum will be mature and respectful in all postings. All of us here want the game to be better...bashing the game because we're frustrated helps nobody - it's better to voice out specifically what is incorrect and how it can be improved.

As far as the devs go...SCEA developers I think are great people. I see their passion thru the streams and their postings and have heard the same from users that went to the Community Days. The fact these devs frequent this forum without obligation is not something OS takes lightly...It is expected and forced upon our members that devs will be treated with respect as OS values that relationship.

SCEA as a whole has garnered a lot of respect on this forum thru the years with which a lot of the members here pass back (it's much better when compared to the 2K/Madden forums)...as Bullit said though, we keep having faith the game will turn in our favor but the past couple of years has somewhat broken down that relationship, at least to me. As much as I love this game and the series, nostalgia cannot keep allowing me to think this is a good game...we have to hold the gaming company and its developers accountable if the series is not improving in core areas.

I know that's rambling a bit as I'm not speaking to you in general, just a broad thought surrounding the topic.

Well, funny thing around constructive criticism: I'm not a software engineer. And even if I was I simply don't have access to the game's coding. So it's a little difficult to provide constructive criticism around why the game's online modes don't work.

I can't imagine ANY other industry/commercial product where this is acceptable. If you buy a new car from Chevy and it doesn't go into reverse, are you satisfied with "you just have to be patient until Chevy finds a fix"? No! "Oh, and you better be an engineer because, unless you can tell us WHY the car won't go into reverse, we don't wanna hear it."

Sure, a car costs considerably more than a video game. But let's use a battery-operated shower cleaner. If you put the batteries in and it doesn't spray, would anyone find it reasonable for the consumer to "wait for a fix"? No! You'd return it as broken and have the choice, as a consumer, to buy a different product from another developer.

But video games don't work that way. Once you open that plastic wrapping, it's yours. If it doesn't perform to established expectations? Well, sucks for you, because no returning it. So you're either forced to wait for a fix (and you BETTER not say anything bad about the product - only constructive criticism!) or you sell it on the open market. It's absolutely absurd that we let the video game industry get away with such things.

But, that's where capitalism is so great. If you truly want to change those practices, you simply stop buying the product. SDS is a business here to make a profit. No profit means changes to the product, or no more business. So, maybe we should all put our money where our mouths are and stop buying the game until the devs decide to put out a working product that is worth the cost they charge.

I think is EXTREMELY well said and well put. I agree wholeheartedly that consumers are now getting an unfinished, 95%, 90%, sometimes even 80-85% game. I've fallen into the mindset to be patient on a game with patch #1, #2, #3, #4, etc....versus expecting the game to work as intended and as I expected when I purchased it.

[sbauer318]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

I don't know who their backend Cloud service provider is but they should be terminating that contract and hook up with IBM, Google, or some major player that has a proven track record of success in the Cloud for major programs and millions of transactions.

C

Cloud infrastructure isn't some magical thing that can heal all wounds. The services and backend have to be well written and scalable too. Not only that, but you have to set up the infrastructure properly as well. These issues could be caused by any number of things.

[Retropyro]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

And even if we consider the game a total loss, it's $60. Sucks, but not the end of the world.



I get what folks are saying about saying what they want, but I guess outside of venting, I'm not sure the purpose it serves.

I hate seeing statements like these. Those are the very types of thoughts that lead to company's getting off the hook for not living up to the promises they advertise and continues the cycle of rinse and repeat releases.

No, it's not the end of the world. The only thing that is the end of the world is "The end of the world", so no one should get mad at anything else?

Obviously the venting does nothing, the studio already made their money. But people are angry because for months, up front and constantly in videos, live-streams and written articles are the devs pushing this game and making themselves available. Because it's all positive. All they want to do is talk about the game, everyone's happy. But post launch when some problems begin to show, radio silence. They disappear.

I don't even personally care about the online side of the game, I'm strictly offline. But I hate seeing those that do care about it get brushed aside. As that's how I've felt for months with NBA 2K17 and it being completely unplayable. (Yes unplayable, the game won't load). Sucks having your concerns brushed off. Especially by the one place you hope would "have your back" and be able to use their contacts to push for answers.

I am happy to see this article though. Would love to see OS holding more developers (2K) accountable with similar ones.

[335TDC]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

I am happy to see this article though. Would love to see OS holding more developers (2K) accountable with similar ones.

Agree. I dislike how but understand why OS "protects" developers on its forums, but this is the closest thing to an outright relationship-threatening condemnation that we're likely to see by OS against one of the big games (Madden, 2K, et al.). Good on them.

[theu715]

"Because of this, large portions of the game are at times unplayable for users. With the possibility that this instability could continue, it's hard to justify recommending MLB The Show 17 for a purchase right now. We need to see that the game is fully functional and stable again to more comfortably say the game is safe to pick up -- at least when it comes to recommending it to anyone who has an internet connection." - Quote from the article

As someone who has played almost exclusively Online Franchise mode the past two years, it is old seeing the same server issues year after year. I'm really glad I ordered the cheapest version of the game I could get this year and didn't spend a dime more for "special editions" or extra online content that would mostly meaningless. The issue IMO is that the devs put so much effort in promoting the game and especially the online modes and they don't work well at launch, and even weeks later. On top of that do things like add events, programs, cards, and packs instead of taking 2 minutes to update their twitter account with what is going on. Small things like "still working on server connectivity today" or "thanks for the patience everyone, we're sorry it's taking so long, but working on it" or even an honest update, "we aren't sure why things aren't stabilizing but we're working hard at it" would all go a long way. Instead, of this we get April Fools legend pranks. For everyone wanting cards back, I'd rather get a cheaper version of the game next year or a refund back for part of the game the year. That's the fair way to handle it. Again, just my opinion.

[Millennium]

Agree. I dislike how but understand why OS "protects" developers on its forums, but this is the closest thing to an outright relationship-threatening condemnation that we're likely to see by OS against one of the big games (Madden, 2K, et al.). Good on them.

I've actually seen about enough of your accusations. We don't protect devs. We ask that people speak to them like adults in a mature way.

Just because we don't lash out at devs in articles in no way means we "protect" them. You need to get past that mindset or, as others have said, find another place to push your agenda.

[baseballsim]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

Again, coming from a "fanboy" here...

This game has been released for a month? I'd imagine some of these issues requiring some time to resolve?

I'm ALL for holding people accountable. Don't feel this group deserves a "pass", either. DO feel that some time (to resolve issues) is fair though...

Did any of you hear Ramone Russell during Millennium's 3-day pre-release game stream? The guy was WIPED OUT! The game's post release hang over will pass, developer's batteries will recharge & these guys will "right" what's "wrong"...

SDS's past track record will prove me right...

-GW-

If memory serves me, games have been going in the queue since 2012. I hope they can find a way to change how they process these stats, wins, etc in the next few years.

These issues are nothing new either. Issue always reappear in the next release. One would think they would be able to put in preventive measures for the upcoming release but video game development might be a different animal compared to other software.

[rtwilli4]

Well , many paid $100, and that extra $40 was specifically so we could have the extras that would allow us to play DD. The mode that is most broken.


I can be patient but there is a limit to that patience, especially when there is little to no communication that gives me any idea about how much longer I am supposed to remain patient.

Exactly.

I'm not really into video games. I bought a PS4 Pro so I could play baseball. MLBTS 16 was my first video game since 2005. Online was totally new to me and I wasn't even sure I wanted to play it, but thought that it would be cool to try DD while I waited for OSFM rosters to come out for 17. I was back and forth about what edition to buy, but my wife said "go ahead, get the best one, what's the worst than can happen? You'll enjoy the extras."

Boy was she wrong. A month later and not only has than extra $40 been TOTALLY wasted, but I can't even play OFFLINE franchise games for fear of those being lost as well! Every time I disconnect my PS4 Pro from the internet so I can play The Show, I wonder why I didn't just drive to my parents house and dig out my old PS2.

I'm not one to complain about money. I nearly always buy the most expensive version of things, whether I need it or not. But out of principle, I will not be pre-ordering anything from this studio again and I will certainly not spend any extra money on content. That is, if I even buy the game at all next year.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

By the way, I'm no mod, but I am sort of pleasantly surprised by how mature most of the discussion in this thread has been. It's a very contentious and hair-trigger topic and, nonetheless, most are making logical, valid arguments without resorting to all caps 'flinging poo' at one another. To put it eloquently.

[dalger21]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

Boy was she wrong. A month later and not only has than extra $40 been TOTALLY wasted, but I can't even play OFFLINE franchise games for fear of those being lost as well! Every time I disconnect my PS4 Pro from the internet so I can play The Show, I wonder why I didn't just drive to my parents house and dig out my old PS4.

As long as you have auto-save on, it won't be lost. I have yet to lose an RttS series from the freeze.

[capa]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

Cloud infrastructure isn't some magical thing that can heal all wounds. The services and backend have to be well written and scalable too. Not only that, but you have to set up the infrastructure properly as well. These issues could be caused by any number of things.

Yes...and the proper back end provider would ensure these were all taken into account, properly scaled and tested (stress tests, etc). No brainer.

C

[335TDC]

Re: MLB The Show Server Issues: Detailing the Saga So Far

I've actually seen about enough of your accusations. We don't protect devs. We ask that people speak to them like adults in a mature way.

Just because we don't lash out at devs in articles in no way means we "protect" them. You need to get past that mindset or, as others have said, find another place to push your agenda.

Sorry if you see these as accusations -- I probably could have worded things better on a few posts, but I've been complimentary to OS on the whole. For example, earlier in this thread I wrote:

"OS does a good job overall of moderating comments, but it's certainly conservative and errs on the side of OVERprotecting dev teams (which is the deal you make with the devil if you want them on your site). I am quite pleased with this write-up -- it's very un-OS-like to take a semi-hard stance like it does. Kudos."

I think that's fair: it's written in a mature way, and while it implies some criticism of OS, it's not "bashing" anybody . The "deal with the devil" isn't meant literally, of course, but it's just a fact that if you want devs to come here and interact then certainly modding becomes "stricter" or "more conservative" or whatever we label it. Those relationships are sensitive; I get that, and that's all I'm trying to convey. So when the site backs up member outrage on a dev team that handed out a non-apology and has been silent ever since, it's satisfying (at least to me).