Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

[howboutdat]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Only in man..zone not so much

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ive seen numerous blown coverages in zones. CPU controlled player zone has him set to an area but ball thrown there, and no one around..... but yeah man is about worthless unless trying to stop a run, or screen.

[jfsolo]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Deuce I agree with you that part of the issue is blocking, QB evading system..but the other half of the issue is ratings..most QB don't break tackles cause their Elusive rating is so low..this includes as an example guys like Big Ben who is elusive by nature due to his size, or Romo when he is broken into two pieces..second part of the ratings problem is pursuit rating by Dlineman..this rating at times overrides basic speed, acceleration, agility, and stamina..causing lineman to close on QB's wayyyy too fast..now not talking about the K Mack's, and top flight edge rushers who are top athletes but DT's or large 3 tech DE's.


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QB's can evade in Madden the problem is you have to go to drastic messures on the tackling slider in order to see it happen

Most guys on here (OS) will never play with a extremely low tackle slider because it will drive them crazy if a RB or WR broke 2-3 tackles on a givin play.

The tackle slider doing gameplay is the biggest culprit as to why you don't see QB's avoiding the rush very much

That slider is somehow tied into the ball carrier and Qb elusiveness rating doing gameplay

Playing with high tackle slider increases the radius of the tackle range......reducing the tackle slider decreases the radius and in return you'll see QB's avoid the rush much better but the downside is the RB's and WR's will sometimes break tackles

I personally live with the consequences because Madden is a flawed game and rather have QB's at least being able to avoid a rush occasional as opposed to getting sacked 100% of the time...

EA needs to figure out how their ratings also tie into the sliders and doubt they really spend the man time dissecting it or even observing it

I feel like tacking has been tuned to be so ridiculously forgiving as a hand holding mechanism for User play style. A large percentage of Users run full speed at the ball carrier at crappy angles and hit stick(garbage mechanic) every play. Maybe part of sim style can be to reduce that crazy radius and punish players who play so recklessly.

[ODogg]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

If we have simulation mode..I would love to see botched snaps, blown coverage, momentum means more..ball physics impacted by weather..etc

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This is exactly what I am expecting from simulation mode. I want the real elements of football, which yes happen to sometimes be out of a coaches control, to affect things and force the user to adjust.

[XtremeDunkz]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Per Clint Oldenburgs comments on Twitter there will definitely not be any botched snaps this year and probably ever.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Per Clint Oldenburgs comments on Twitter there will definitely not be any botched snaps this year and probably ever.

That's sad. I guess more people rather not have it so they'll never add it.

Edit::

See he said "how would you like to lose 100k because of that?"

Again, that's competition not simulation mode so why would it matter? It seems like these 3 modes will just be tuning and sliders which should still be a nice change but not the full on simulation like we were wanting.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

See he said "how would you like to lose 100k because of that?"

Again, that's competition not simulation mode so why would it matter? It seems like these 3 modes will just be tuning and sliders which should still be a nice change but not the full on simulation like we were wanting.

He also said he still doesn't get how fumbled snaps would be fun. But I definitely think, like you said, the different modes will just be tuning and sliders. I'd also doubt that even moving forward that there are very few, if any, setting specific gameplay implementations but that's impossible to say because there might have been some this year. More ratings driven gameplay should definitely be an improvement as long as it's tuned properly but I'm also hoping for more options for things like making kicking tougher and turning tackle battles off.

[KingV2k3]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

From what I'm seeing for each mode you can still adjust the skill level. I was afraid if I choose simulation I would be stuck with Pro or All-Pro. It looks like I can put it on Simulation and crank it up to All-Madden which we would be a great thing for me. I have yet to play a Madden game where All-Pro resulted in a challenge for me personally.

This is the key for me...

IF we can choose Simulation Mode AND crank it up to All Madden difficulty AND have the sliders be functional, it would FINALLY afford us the ability to play a realistic, yet challenging game of video football...

Anything short of the above is just "same ole", IMHO...

[ODogg]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

He also said he still doesn't get how fumbled snaps would be fun.

It wouldn't be fun if it happened to you. But you know what, it'd be more realistic and if you overcame it and won you'd feel more accomplished than if it hadn't happened.

See that's the problem if EA is looking at it like that. Fun is a large part of why people play games but so is realism. Unpredictability is a part of football. Having things happen outside of your control is a part of football. It's why games can take a huge turn the other way and it's why upsets can happen. It's also something that can make games interesting.

Right now if you're up 14-7 in Madden and there's not a lot of time left then you've 99% got it in the bag. In real football weird stuff like bobbled snaps happen meaning that if you're up 14-7 late in the game you're likely to win but it's not 99% likely to win like it is in the video game because hey, bobble snap and.."HOLY COW IT'S RECOVERED AND RETURNED FOR A TD..FOLKS...WE GOT OURSELVES A BALL GAME!!"

This line of thought of "well why would that be fun" really misses the idea that although it may not be fun for that particular play (if it happened to you) it'd make the game overall a lot more fun to play because it would be less predictable, less stale and thus much more exciting and dynamic..

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

This line of thought of "well why would that be fun" really misses the idea that although it may not be fun for that particular play (if it happened to you) it'd make the game overall a lot more fun to play because it would be less predictable, less stale and thus much more exciting and dynamic..

And hopefully that line of thought starts changing within the devs now that we have separate settings. Clint saying he still doesn't get why they would be fun is looking at it through the H2H prism. When I look at it and I'm sure a lot of sim guys would agree, it's the replication that is fun. I enjoy dropped passes, high, wide, and botched snaps, inaccurate throws, missed FG's, and the laundry list of things that the average user hates because it replicates what I see on Sunday. Is it fun? In the moment, not really. But the overall experience is more enjoyable and the game is much better because it adds to the dynamic of what could happen and that's what I think is more fun. Plus if the CPU happens to go all Philip Rivers on MNF and sends a game to OT where you win for a spot in first place, then the fun is off the charts.

[Hooe]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Here are some things I think wrt fumbled snaps:

1 - adding random fumbled snaps would absolutely not be fun by my definition of fun. For me, fun in a video game is defined as the sense of fulfillment derived from learning and subsequently mastering some sort of video game system or mechanic. I don't want to lose because the CPU literally decided I should lose; a random fumbled snap is literally a dice roll. I have zero control over that and I would feel A - robbed if it happened to me, and B - bewildered and cheap if I benefitted from one. Sure, it's "sim", but I do not care about that, it's a video game first. If fumbled snaps are introduced into the game, I personally would only approve of it as a game mechanic around snapping the football.

2 - adding a game mechanic for snapping the football is probably going to make the game more tedious than fun; it'd have to be easy-to-learn and easy-to-master (because how often do fumbled snaps happen, really?), which would make the exercise of game-ifying the snap at all unnecessary and tedious.

3 - It's also not like a fumbled snap game mechanic adds much new complexity to the game; adding a mechanic there and succeeding at it literally achieves the same result as just pressing A / X right now. It literally adds nothing from a game mechanics perspective. It adds from an authenticity perspective, sure, but I don't think it adds enough value there to overcome that lack of value from a game mechanic standpoint, so I could never justify spending time making a snapping mechanic to that end.

4 - if anything, I think that a snapping mechanic might only have significant value in performing long snapping duties on field goals and punts, as to increase the still rather mechanically banal kicking game. Even then I'd probably only limit it to high / low / inaccurate snaps, as to increase chances of blocked kicks.

[TheBleedingRed21]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

You realize dice rolls are all over this game right?

Tackles, fumbles, catches, etc.

Obviously it would factor in center rating. This would keep people from playing out of position as a penalty.

I don't care if I seen it one time in a whole cycle I play as long as I have a center who is rated decent.

[jfsolo]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

It wouldn't be fun if it happened to you. But you know what, it'd be more realistic and if you overcame it and won you'd feel more accomplished than if it hadn't happened.

See that's the problem if EA is looking at it like that. Fun is a large part of why people play games but so is realism. Unpredictability is a part of football. Having things happen outside of your control is a part of football. It's why games can take a huge turn the other way and it's why upsets can happen. It's also something that can make games interesting.

Right now if you're up 14-7 in Madden and there's not a lot of time left then you've 99% got it in the bag. In real football weird stuff like bobbled snaps happen meaning that if you're up 14-7 late in the game you're likely to win but it's not 99% likely to win like it is in the video game because hey, bobble snap and.."HOLY COW IT'S RECOVERED AND RETURNED FOR A TD..FOLKS...WE GOT OURSELVES A BALL GAME!!"

This line of thought of "well why would that be fun" really misses the idea that although it may not be fun for that particular play (if it happened to you) it'd make the game overall a lot more fun to play because it would be less predictable, less stale and thus much more exciting and dynamic..

And hopefully that line of thought starts changing within the devs now that we have separate settings. Clint saying he still doesn't get why they would be fun is looking at it through the H2H prism. When I look at it and I'm sure a lot of sim guys would agree, it's the replication that is fun. I enjoy dropped passes, high, wide, and botched snaps, inaccurate throws, missed FG's, and the laundry list of things that the average user hates because it replicates what I see on Sunday. Is it fun? In the moment, not really. But the overall experience is more enjoyable and the game is much better because it adds to the dynamic of what could happen and that's what I think is more fun. Plus if the CPU happens to go all Philip Rivers on MNF and sends a game to OT where you win for a spot in first place, then the fun is off the charts.

Unfortunately since we're in the extreme minority opinion in terms of thinking that these things would actually add a lot of long term value to the game, especially in CFM, utilitarian designs will win out over the implementation of many of the snafu plays that make football so interesting.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Yeah, for me, the bobbled snap would add that extra level of realism. And, no, they would not make a mechanic for it, there is no need. And, I would say, they should toggle this type of 'miscue' as a slider. Meaning, I think even on sim, some guys may not want it. But, for me, this def adds realism. It's not just about being a 'fun' video game, it's about replicating what u see on Sunday. And, here, you've got another chance to tighten up your roster with a good center. And, don't forget, it's also on the QB. Anyone remember Dave krieg? I think he was the QB fumble master and/or bobbled snap master. Lol. Used to bobble em all the time. And, legit, could've been a reason to get rid of him. So, u mix center ability with QB fumble, u give it a dice roll with an extremely low chance, in general, of happening, and bang, u got something closer to real life football. Because, again, while, yes, madden is a video game, the ultimate creation of this video game was to replicate football. So, the more, the merrier, I say. And, sure, if u absolutely lose a game because of this, that's tough, but that's football. And, more hopefully, it happens at a time in the game where u have a chance to comeback. As others have said, it gives u that sense of satisfaction coming back from adversity. Same thing if u get called for a penalty on 3rd and 10 after scoring a TD. Having it called back to 3rd and 20, and seeing if u can overcome it. Overall, it would simply add more realism, but as I said should ABSOLUTELY be a toggle!! Lol. [emoji6][emoji41]


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[SoxFan01605]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Here are some things I think wrt fumbled snaps:

1 - adding random fumbled snaps would absolutely not be fun by my definition of fun. For me, fun in a video game is defined as the sense of fulfillment derived from learning and subsequently mastering some sort of video game system or mechanic. I don't want to lose because the CPU literally decided I should lose; a random fumbled snap is literally a dice roll. I have zero control over that and I would feel A - robbed if it happened to me, and B - bewildered and cheap if I benefitted from one. Sure, it's "sim", but I do not care about that, it's a video game first. If fumbled snaps are introduced into the game, I personally would only approve of it as a game mechanic around snapping the football.

2 - adding a game mechanic for snapping the football is probably going to make the game more tedious than fun; it'd have to be easy-to-learn and easy-to-master (because how often do fumbled snaps happen, really?), which would make the exercise of game-ifying the snap at all unnecessary and tedious.

3 - It's also not like a fumbled snap game mechanic adds much new complexity to the game; adding a mechanic there and succeeding at it literally achieves the same result as just pressing A / X right now. It literally adds nothing from a game mechanics perspective. It adds from an authenticity perspective, sure, but I don't think it adds enough value there to overcome that lack of value from a game mechanic standpoint, so I could never justify spending time making a snapping mechanic to that end.

4 - if anything, I think that a snapping mechanic might only have significant value in performing long snapping duties on field goals and punts, as to increase the still rather mechanically banal kicking game. Even then I'd probably only limit it to high / low / inaccurate snaps, as to increase chances of blocked kicks.

Well, I certainly agree that it shouldn't be completely "random," but that also doesn't mean it needs a specific game mechanic tied to it to be fair or beneficial to the experience.

You also don't have full control of when fumbles happen, every time a player drop balls, if a play is misread, etc. Yet these things are part of the game and are all represented to varying degrees in Madden.

Make it a rating (or trait) or, even simpler, tie the odds of it's occurrence to position (would force some real decision making for OL), situation, etc (even to the point of it only having the chance of occurring under such circumstances).

It could also be made an option (similar to balks in The Show-though that is specifically tied to a user mechanic and doesn't impact AI, so it's not a perfect comparison, obviously).

The point being is that there are more ways to look at this than random vs tedious mechanic.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

It's always the same tired scenario of losing a game as a direct result of a fumbled snap. That's literally the 1% of the less than 1%. It'd be far more likely that you'd lose a game on a blocked FG or holding penalty than the one or two times in a seasons worth of snaps that you fumbled a snap it would be on a games consequential play. Especially considering it's likely around 50-50 odds that you'd still end up with possession of the ball.

Now why would you implement this mechanic that only happens on less than 1% of snaps? You wouldn't. You'd tie it into the solution for a few of Madden's current flaws. It doesn't just have to be botched snaps, it can be wide, high, low, low and wide, and high and wide. Snaps that upset and timing of the offense. Snap rating. Dictates how often or rare these snaps occur. If they ever figure out OL injuries, most teams don't carry two C's. It puts emphasis on having a backup or another lineman who can come in and do an ample job or you suffer the consequences. Long snappers. They'd actually serve a purpose and require a roster spot instead of being a free cut. There's probably more things that I'm forgetting that could tie in as well. And here's a wild idea, an On-Off option. The only reason they should need to do that is in the description of the Simulation setting: Play true to player and team ratings, with authentic rules and gameplay.