Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

[Steve_OS]

Sixteen of the top Madden 17 players locked up in Burbank, CA this past weekend for their shot at $150,000, a title belt that would make The Rock blush and the right to call themselves Madden 17 Champion. Before the weekend was over, a total of $500,000 would be given away to the top-32 players.

Read More - Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap (Written by: Daniel Owens)

[jerwoods]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

my main beef with this is why does both players have most of the same guys ie Rodgers bosa

[canes21]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

my main beef with this is why does both players have most of the same guys ie Rodgers bosa

Because it is about stick skills more than front office skills so the idea is to allow duplicate players and the more skilled guy should win.

Personally my biggest beef with it all was the playstyle of the games. The first game I watched should have started with a 3 and out, but instead we had a failed 4th down attempt at a player's own 30 yard line that led to a score. A drive either ended in a turnover or points every series I watched. This is what the masses want I guess, but I would rather watch two guys play a simulation slugfest and punt 15 times than what I did witness.

[frostbyt]

Yes...play style is my biggest gripe. EA promotes playing this way even though this is not how typically it goes on Sundays. I get it...it's a game...but to play a football game without any of the normal strategies in a NFL game just irks me...that is why I choose not to watch or support these players.

[JayD]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I can't watch these types of games as it has hurt the sim aspect for the majority of sports gaming

[T4VERTS]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I see this a lot amongst the community ("I can't watch that game play") so my question then becomes who is watching? They are getting the ratings which means someone is tuning in. I would be curious how much market research they have done amongst their user base around who and how often they watch these events. I also wonder if the general "curiosity" will eventually die down, or if it is sustainable.

I am in the group that believes the push for Esports is a dangerous and short sighted pivot for EA. They could end up alienating their core users in an attempt to ride the "hot" trend. In the end what they could end up with is a game tailored for a competitive culture, but that group may have moved on to something else.

The other issue I see is they are actually hurting their own monopoly on the market as they push the competitive side. In the competitive realm they are stripping away what makes their license valuable, the qualities of the real players themselves. As they move to less rating and dice roll based outcomes, and they use similar rosters, they essentially are making the actual players irrelevant in favor of the users controlling them.

The issue with this is if they create a real demand for this type of play it is not unreasonable a competitor emerges to challenge them. Using generic players, they could provide a game better designed to capture user skill in a competitive football environment. Because the competitive teams are players from various NFL teams, the team licenses aren't important. Because the name on the jersey is the only thing differentiating guys as they make the ratings not matter, it would appear there could come a time that the players licenses aren't that important.

I could see a day where they create the market for football as an Esport, but they aren't necessarily the game used for it. This is me just hypothesizing, but I really question if they have thought through what they may be doing long term.

[OhMrHanky]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I see this a lot amongst the community ("I can't watch that game play") so my question then becomes who is watching? They are getting the ratings which means someone is tuning in. I would be curious how much market research they have done amongst their user base around who and how often they watch these events. I also wonder if the general "curiosity" will eventually die down, or if it is sustainable.

I am in the group that believes the push for Esports is a dangerous and short sighted pivot for EA. They could end up alienating their core users in an attempt to ride the "hot" trend. In the end what they could end up with is a game tailored for a competitive culture, but that group may have moved on to something else.

The other issue I see is they are actually hurting their own monopoly on the market as they push the competitive side. In the competitive realm they are stripping away what makes their license valuable, the qualities of the real players themselves. As they move to less rating and dice roll based outcomes, and they use similar rosters, they essentially are making the actual players irrelevant in favor of the users controlling them.

The issue with this is if they create a real demand for this type of play it is not unreasonable a competitor emerges to challenge them. Using generic players, they could provide a game better designed to capture user skill in a competitive football environment. Because the competitive teams are players from various NFL teams, the team licenses aren't important. Because the name on the jersey is the only thing differentiating guys as they make the ratings not matter, it would appear there could come a time that the players licenses aren't that important.

I could see a day where they create the market for football as an Esport, but they aren't necessarily the game used for it. This is me just hypothesizing, but I really question if they have thought through what they may be doing long term.

This is kind of thought provoking, actually. But, I think, in the end, for another company to spend the resources and development effort for a brand new football game for esports only without NFL players, I just don't think it would pay off for them. I mean, what, 3 years for the first game? As much as people have talked about monopoly, no monopoly, etc, etc, I, personally believe no football game would make it without NFL players. Ultimately, that's the point of the game, replicating football with the actual players in the NFL. Now that madden is splitting game styles, I'm hopeful the sim will continue to be solid, and the comp style will appease the esports crowd. It would be very interesting, though, if someone did do this, however, and created an amazing football sim out of the box with real physics, ball flight, etc. To see how it would compete with esports and/or sim crowd. If it had customizable rosters, I'm sure some people here would be all over it. Lol. And/or, if they created an option to download rosters and people on the internet maintained generic teams based on NFL (whatever they need to do to not be sued. Lol. [emoji6]), that could be the end of madden. But, again, and this is my personal opinion, the NFL license is a big deal. I don't just want to play football. I want to play football with my dirty birds, and that's it. Or, I want to play with the 85 Bears or something. Just playing 'football' doesn't really do it.


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[T4VERTS]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

This is kind of thought provoking, actually. But, I think, in the end, for another company to spend the resources and development effort for a brand new football game for esports only without NFL players, I just don't think it would pay off for them. I mean, what, 3 years for the first game? As much as people have talked about monopoly, no monopoly, etc, etc, I, personally believe no football game would make it without NFL players. Ultimately, that's the point of the game, replicating football with the actual players in the NFL. Now that madden is splitting game styles, I'm hopeful the sim will continue to be solid, and the comp style will appease the esports crowd. It would be very interesting, though, if someone did do this, however, and created an amazing football sim out of the box with real physics, ball flight, etc. To see how it would compete with esports and/or sim crowd. If it had customizable rosters, I'm sure some people here would be all over it. Lol. And/or, if they created an option to download rosters and people on the internet maintained generic teams based on NFL (whatever they need to do to not be sued. Lol. [emoji6]), that could be the end of madden. But, again, and this is my personal opinion, the NFL license is a big deal. I don't just want to play football. I want to play football with my dirty birds, and that's it. Or, I want to play with the 85 Bears or something. Just playing 'football' doesn't really do it.

I think it could be done by using historical players to give it a "real" feel. Those players should own their own rights (like Montana) but maybe can't be associated with a team they played for. Call it "legends of the gridiron" and you need maybe 10 guys per position that guys can choose form when assembling their teams, because EA is already making ratings not matter in competitive it would be easy. As for wanting to replicate what they see, that is true in some modes, but I don't believe it to be true in competitive as seen by their play style. They want to win over everything and a competitor could produce that.

If a new game came out that was really built around user skill and offered large cash prizes year one out of the gate you would capture a share from the jump. Those guys who play both games competitively would be your best promoters.

[kyle81]

Because it is about stick skills more than front office skills so the idea is to allow duplicate players and the more skilled guy should win.

Personally my biggest beef with it all was the playstyle of the games. The first game I watched should have started with a 3 and out, but instead we had a failed 4th down attempt at a player's own 30 yard line that led to a score. A drive either ended in a turnover or points every series I watched. This is what the masses want I guess, but I would rather watch two guys play a simulation slugfest and punt 15 times than what I did witness.

I'm with you, but part of the issue is that there isn't a lot of time. You kind of just want as many possessions as possible. Punting when 50k is on the line is a hard thing to do.

[therealsmallville]

Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I think it could be done by using historical players to give it a "real" feel. Those players should own their own rights (like Montana) but maybe can't be associated with a team they played for. Call it "legends of the gridiron" and you need maybe 10 guys per position that guys can choose form when assembling their teams, because EA is already making ratings not matter in competitive it would be easy. As for wanting to replicate what they see, that is true in some modes, but I don't believe it to be true in competitive as seen by their play style. They want to win over everything and a competitor could produce that.

If a new game came out that was really built around user skill and offered large cash prizes year one out of the gate you would capture a share from the jump. Those guys who play both games competitively would be your best promoters.

Who would host it, though? I know a lot of people who turn on NFL Network (or ESPN) in the morning and leave it running all day. Madden Championship goes on NFL Network and they have an instant viewer base, which also means easy advertisers/sponsors and easy money for the Network.

If the game was generic, NFLN won't show it. ESPN probably won't see the revenue in it, so they are out. Which leaves channels like maybe Spike TV? Or possibly only a streaming solution ala Twitch or Youtube? I'd love to see a generic game if it played fantastically and had lots of customization, but using it for esports is just a non-starter when we're talking about money, imo. The winner of Madden might get 100k, but that's not much compared to the exposure and revenue they & the NFLN get by doing it in the first place.

Just my .02, and I could be wrong of course.



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[OhMrHanky]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I'm with you, but part of the issue is that there isn't a lot of time. You kind of just want as many possessions as possible. Punting when 50k is on the line is a hard thing to do.

Yeah, that's the tricky part and why I don't mind them doing that. Not that I watch these things all the time, lol, but I do catch em every once in awhile because I'm curious if there's still cheese, or maybe the top player is actually playing with no cheese or whatnot. That's why, for a true competition of video game 'football,' it should be 15 min qtrs with acc clock around 16) to better mimic huddle time and getting to the line. This would limit ridiculous hot routing as well and be more about strategy. Although, someone can still run no huddle, of course, but I get my meaning. If they played 15 min qtrs and actually had time to comeback, I'd think you'd see more true football strategy such as punting on 4th and 10 from your own 20 instead of going for it. And, I think it would punish people more who go for it on ridiculous 4th downs. It could actually play out like a real NFL game. Now, don't get me wrong, people don't want to watch a single 2 hr game. Lol. I understand that. But, to be fair/honest, I suppose that's the difference between playing 'madden' and playing 'football'. If you're going to play an entire 'game' of video game 'football,' u should play 15 min qtrs. If they have esports for The Show, do they only play 3 innings? Or, do they play the full 9, u know?


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[T4VERTS]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

Who would host it, though? I know a lot of people who turn on NFL Network (or ESPN) in the morning and leave it running all day. Madden Championship goes on NFL Network and they have an instant viewer base, which also means easy advertisers/sponsors and easy money for the Network.

If the game was generic, NFLN won't show it. ESPN probably won't see the revenue in it, so they are out. Which leaves channels like maybe Spike TV? Or possibly only a streaming solution ala Twitch or Youtube? I'd love to see a generic game if it played fantastically and had lots of customization, but using it for esports is just a non-starter when we're talking about money, imo. The winner of Madden might get 100k, but that's not much compared to the exposure and revenue they & the NFLN get by doing it in the first place.

Just my .02, and I could be wrong of course.



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TBS has dove into Esports showing them on Friday night, they could possibly be an option. You could also approach Spike TV as someone who may be looking for content for the same demographic. Twitch and Youtube are also options if the prize money and willingness to market are there. If you offered big money to the winners, and got coverage about it, people would tune in to see it. There are a bunch of networks I am sure though that are looking to have some sort of Esport offering, just would take some legwork to set up a deal.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

I am in the group that believes the push for Esports is a dangerous and short sighted pivot for EA.

Could not disagree more strongly.

Robert Kraft just invested $15M in an Overwatch eSports league, a league being built around a game which just became a billion-dollar franchise for Activision-Blizzard. Riot Games has built a multi-billion dollar company solely on the back of League Of Legends, the leading video game in the e-sports scene. Psyonix literally changed the fortunes of their company with Rocket League, which for a time was the top console E-Sports game (until Overwatch came out). Even an older game like Starcraft II awarded $22M in prize money to E-Sports competitors last year.

E-Sports is growing, has been growing for years, and will continue to grow. If anything, EA Sports is arguably behind the curve with positioning their professional sports titles as relevant players in the exploding E-Sports scene. Pro sports games directly and obviously translate to competitive experiences, they belong as E-Sports games.

I realize Madden Nation was a thing that existed as early as Madden 07, but EA Sports should have pursued the E-Sports direction more aggressively years ago.

[T4VERTS]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

Could not disagree more strongly.

Robert Kraft just invested $15M in an Overwatch eSports league, a league being built around a game which just became a billion-dollar franchise for Activision-Blizzard. Riot Games has built a multi-billion dollar company solely on the back of League Of Legends, the leading video game in the e-sports scene. Psyonix literally changed the fortunes of their company with Rocket League, which for a time was the top console E-Sports game (until Overwatch came out). Even an older game like Starcraft II awarded $22M in prize money to E-Sports competitors last year.

E-Sports is growing, has been growing for years, and will continue to grow. If anything, EA Sports is arguably behind the curve with positioning their professional sports titles as relevant players in the exploding E-Sports scene. Pro sports games directly and obviously translate to competitive experiences, they belong as E-Sports games.

I realize Madden Nation was a thing that existed as early as Madden 07, but EA Sports should have pursued the E-Sports direction more aggressively years ago.

There are some major differences, one being most those games became Esport leagues organically because the game play fit the idea of playing competitively rather than the game developer trying to simply stick it in as one to jump on the craze. Madden is actually working backward from those games. They are taking a game that wasn't built to work well competitively and trying to change it to fit. EA is banking hard that those changes will be widely accepted. They made a positive step separating modes out, but it doesn't mean the shift won't hurt your core customer base through disillusion, or perceived lack of focus.

As I pointed out before, they are lowering the barrier of entry for other football games if they remove the effects of the individual players on the outcomes of the games. If it's not about the players on the field, but the players controlling them then those users shouldn't care as much about the name on the jersey if they still have an avenue to win money. The franchise and casual gamer care about the names on jersey's because their payoff comes with the reward of "being" them or controlling their destiny. In competitive gaming the payoff is winning and who they use is not as important.

As a whole I am not sure all of these factors have been truly vetted out, this is more of where I am heading with short sighted. Has EA thought about the possibility that they may prove out the concept of competitive football as a Esport, but simultaneously show that their greatest advantage (licensing) is not needed to be a player in the market? If they lose control of the competitive football market after a heavy investment, what does that mean for the game?

I think these are interesting questions, that I am going to attempt to talk to EA about on my developer series next month.

[kyle81]

Re: Madden NFL 17 Championship Recap

Yeah, that's the tricky part and why I don't mind them doing that. Not that I watch these things all the time, lol, but I do catch em every once in awhile because I'm curious if there's still cheese, or maybe the top player is actually playing with no cheese or whatnot. That's why, for a true competition of video game 'football,' it should be 15 min qtrs with acc clock around 16) to better mimic huddle time and getting to the line. This would limit ridiculous hot routing as well and be more about strategy. Although, someone can still run no huddle, of course, but I get my meaning. If they played 15 min qtrs and actually had time to comeback, I'd think you'd see more true football strategy such as punting on 4th and 10 from your own 20 instead of going for it. And, I think it would punish people more who go for it on ridiculous 4th downs. It could actually play out like a real NFL game. Now, don't get me wrong, people don't want to watch a single 2 hr game. Lol. I understand that. But, to be fair/honest, I suppose that's the difference between playing 'madden' and playing 'football'. If you're going to play an entire 'game' of video game 'football,' u should play 15 min qtrs. If they have esports for The Show, do they only play 3 innings? Or, do they play the full 9, u know?


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I've always said if you want to be a football coach go help your local high school team. They'll always take volunteers.