Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

In Franchise mode it should be assumed most games will be user vs. cpu and they should tune the game accordingly.

I don't disagree there is a large number of HUMvCPU that play CFM..but I won't say "most" as online leagues are huge then some of us who play Coach Mode..but I think if the game is toned CPUvCPU it would allow the game to be easier to "get right" based on players style, skill, and how they play..I would assume also it would be easier that way also to get ratings even. But again only my opinion


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[Americas Team]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

2nd one looked like a safety blitz, deserved to get burned, but the others are like some of the long pass plays I've seen, stupid AI playcalling and brain dead AI.

Yes, this is a big issue, if it wasn't for this Madden 17 would have been a way more difficult game but these plays belled me out so many times. I'm going to assume this has been fixed for 18.

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Maybe, just maybe now....

"The Year of the User" means Madden 18 will finally have somewhat of a VIP system like 2k had back in the day. And the AI is going to play like you and learn from your play style, essentially making HUM vs AI now HUM vs AI/HUM.

lol Im trying to talk myself into good thoughts and away from the horrible thoughts that entered my mind when I saw that tweet.

There was nothing good about VIP. It was an AI system built to (badly) predict you based on inconsequential parameters.

No football game has gotten this right since Front Page/Sierra Sports. It's one of the reasons I hate Front Office Football. It's strategic AI is based on faulty ideas of how teams scout one another, and what factors are important in attempting to effectively game plan against opposing tendencies.

Until they get a system that can account for personnel groupings, formation adjustments at the line of scrimmage, and individual players thinking on the fly and remembering things from play to play, among many other factors, its' better teams simply play to their own real life base tendencies regardless of their opponent. At least that has some basis in reality.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

2nd one looked like a safety blitz, deserved to get burned, but the others are like some of the long pass plays I've seen, stupid AI playcalling and brain dead AI.

Yep....I had to house rule myself to only hot routing to a fly pattern once a game when I saw one on one press coverage vs the CPU.

Easy 6 almost every time.

I hope and pray Madden AI get’s a nice tuning for 18.

[roadman]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Yes, this is a big issue, if it wasn't for this Madden 17 would have been a way more difficult game but these plays belled me out so many times. I'm going to assume this has been fixed for 18.

Agreed, and I can safely say that Madden wasn't the only game that stuck out like this, but I'm hoping it's fixed too.

[NDAlum]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Yep....I had to house rule myself to only hot routing to a fly pattern once a game when I saw one on one press coverage vs the CPU.

Easy 6 almost every time.

I hope and pray Madden AI get’s a nice tuning for 18.

I created like 3-4 CPB on D for the CPU and removed all the cover 1 press plays. It completely eliminated this problem

[cable guy]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

There was nothing good about VIP. It was an AI system built to (badly) predict you based on inconsequential parameters.

No football game has gotten this right since Front Page/Sierra Sports. It's one of the reasons I hate Front Office Football. It's strategic AI is based on faulty ideas of how teams scout one another, and what factors are important in attempting to effectively game plan against opposing tendencies.

Until they get a system that can account for personnel groupings, formation adjustments at the line of scrimmage, and individual players thinking on the fly and remembering things from play to play, among many other factors, its' better teams simply play to their own real life base tendencies regardless of their opponent. At least that has some basis in reality.

Teams playing to their real life tendancies is huge.

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[Big FN Deal]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

There was nothing good about VIP. It was an AI system built to (badly) predict you based on inconsequential parameters.

No football game has gotten this right since Front Page/Sierra Sports. It's one of the reasons I hate Front Office Football. It's strategic AI is based on faulty ideas of how teams scout one another, and what factors are important in attempting to effectively game plan against opposing tendencies.

Until they get a system that can account for personnel groupings, formation adjustments at the line of scrimmage, and individual players thinking on the fly and remembering things from play to play, among many other factors, its' better teams simply play to their own real life base tendencies regardless of their opponent. At least that has some basis in reality.

I take umbrage with the bold and I'm wondering if you're confusing the VIP from 2k, which originated on the Sega Dreamcast, with some other version. The poster you quoted mentioned 2k's VIP, which if it's the one from the Dreamcast, was awesome and ahead of it's time. I don't know this for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if that tech laid the groundwork for untold advancement in 2k's current AI systems, across the board.

I won't go too much into it but the VIP system theoretically would allow for giving in-game Coaches, GMs, players and general applicable AI distinct strategies and tendencies, based on actual Users. I even recall EA Tib hinting at a similar system in M15 for QBs http://www.goodgamebro.com/community...nts/9-jpg.851/

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I even recall EA Tib hinting at a similar system in M15 for QBs http://www.goodgamebro.com/community...nts/9-jpg.851/

Man, seeing stuff like that reminds me how important it is to temper expectations on any information coming in the next few weeks. Madden 17 QB's were dumb as rocks and probably all five of those areas in the photo are still in need serious work.

[roadman]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Wow, I don't recall marketing dropping that, but that is indefensible, no pun intended.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Wow, I don't recall marketing dropping that, but that is indefensible, no pun intended.

They do this stuff every year and it just kind of gets forgotten. I don't really remember seeing that either back then but looking back at it now makes it look extremely foolish. Here's a quote from an article talking about M17 last year:

300 draft picks have been scanned

Whisper it, but for a number of Madden casuals (and FIFA players, for that matter) realism doesn’t come down to offensive line stunts and the ability to implement a true 0 Flood Flank Fip R-34 Flash A Shark play. Instead, it’s about something much more simple: slinging deep passes with players who look like their real life counterparts. Producing a game which sates both sets of fans is one of the dev team’s toughest challenges, but in terms of likenesses they’ve been helped for Madden 17 by being given greater access to new NFL players than ever before.

“This year we went to the scouting combine, where the NFL says, ‘these are the top 300 players that everyone should care about.’ We went and we scanned every last one of them,” says Hoag – a former college lineman who’s now a senior member of Madden’s presentation team. “They’re ready to go in this year’s game. Some of those players are very awe-stricken; everyone growing up now wants to be in Madden, so this is a cool thing for them. It’s their first taste of ‘holy crap, this is real! I’m going to be in the NFL!’’’

Not particular as damning as true to life QB AI but still something I'm not sure they even got close to having be true. Is what it is though. The entire run up to release is nothing more than full on marketing mode.

EDIT: Just to add, going back to last year I also found it interesting that they actually went back and deleted the "Completely overhauled" tweet used to reply to someone asking what was done for CFM for 17.

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I take umbrage with the bold and I'm wondering if you're confusing the VIP from 2k, which originated on the Sega Dreamcast, with some other version. The poster you quoted mentioned 2k's VIP, which if it's the one from the Dreamcast, was awesome and ahead of it's time. I don't know this for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if that tech laid the groundwork for untold advancement in 2k's current AI systems, across the board.

I won't go too much into it but the VIP system theoretically would allow for giving in-game Coaches, GMs, players and general applicable AI distinct strategies and tendencies, based on actual Users. I even recall EA Tib hinting at a similar system in M15 for QBs http://www.goodgamebro.com/community...nts/9-jpg.851/

VIP in NFL 2k5, specifically.

It doesn't matter one iota if you know on what percentage of snaps your opponent blitzes when you don't know in what situations it blitzes, out of what fronts, against what formations, and the nature of those blitzes. More importantly, against what opponents. In short, if you cannot determine why they blitzed on a given play, and why a particular blitz is called, you have no real information at all.

NFL coaches strive to be unpredictable, but not random. A randomly called gameplan is no gameplan at all, and all VIP did was ensure a few meaninglesss statistics were met. It was not tactical play calling, it was weighted dice. No better than Madden's weighted gameplans.

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[Big FN Deal]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

VIP in NFL 2k5, specifically.

It doesn't matter one iota if you know on what percentage of snaps your opponent blitzes when you don't know in what situations it blitzes, out of what fronts, against what formations, and the nature of those blitzes. More importantly, against what opponents. In short, if you cannot determine why they blitzed on a given play, and why a particular blitz is called, you have no real information at all.

NFL coaches strive to be unpredictable, but not random. A randomly called gameplan is no gameplan at all, and all VIP did was ensure a few meaninglesss statistics were met. It was not tactical play calling, it was weighted dice. No better than Madden's weighted gameplans.

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IDK if my memory is off, yours or both, then again maybe we are talking about two different things, lol. I think the VIP allowed a digital recording of sorts, of a User's play calling tendencies, adjustments and even on field User control, ie jukes, spins, special moves, etc.

It seems you are referring to it simply as some kind of visual scouting report but I think this is the system that allowed anyone to actually play against someone else's profile. I don't recall ever trying to use any displayed data to scout an opponent or another User, I utilized it to essentially actually scrimmage against friends tactics and for a better challenge than the standard AI/CPU. For those purposes it seemed phenomenal, playing against the VIP of a friend, former online opponent or some featured VIP that was available from a NFL coach, actor, etc, was certainly different than playing standard AI.

Whichever system or nfl2k game it was that had that, seemed to be way more in depth than what you are portraying.

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

IDK if my memory is off, yours or both, then again maybe we are talking about two different things, lol. I think the VIP allowed a digital recording of sorts, of a User's play calling tendencies, adjustments and even on field User control, ie jukes, spins, special moves, etc.

It seems you are referring to it simply as some kind of visual scouting report but I think this is the system that allowed anyone to actually play against someone else's profile. I don't recall ever trying to use any displayed data to scout an opponent or another User, I utilized it to essentially actually scrimmage against friends tactics and for a better challenge than the standard AI/CPU. For those purposes it seemed phenomenal, playing against the VIP of a friend, former online opponent or some featured VIP that was available from a NFL coach, actor, etc, was certainly different than playing standard AI.

Whichever system or nfl2k game it was that had that, seemed to be way more in depth than what you are portraying.

What I'm saying is using all that information to recreate the play style of the individual didn't work worth a **** because it was based on completely uncontextualized data.

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[OhMrHanky]

Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

What I'm saying is using all that information to recreate the play style of the individual didn't work worth a **** because it was based on completely uncontextualized data.

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'Uncontextualized'? U sure? I don't know for sure, either, to be honest. But, my impression of the VIP was that it would most likely take context into account. I guess we could argue what makes up 'context'? Lol. For me, at the very least, I believe it knew, '3rd and 20', 'I blitz, often'. Or, 2nd and 5, I run often. Or, 4th and 1, I always go for it, or something of that nature. And, if you call random stuff, than random stuff should be chosen. I'm not saying it was amazing, and it's been awhile since I played 2k5, lol, so there's no way I would remember. But, I remember being somewhat impressed. And, at least, theoretically, what I liked most is that I play a sim style making sim type play calls. So, if the VIP picks that up, and then it seems it would make better playcalls. But, I have no idea how good the code was under the hood.


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