Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Assign coverages as in defense adjustments? IMO...There's not nearly enough time pre snap to do that. With the limited time we have the adjustment would have to be along the lines of "put my best man coverage CB on the slot" rather than the series of buttons needed to press only the slot WR and make it back to my player before the snap.

I too have also had the issue of having not enough time pre-snap to make adjustments, and playing against the CPU this is very much an issue; even in watching the tournaments, I can see that user vs users generally allows for more time pre-snap for defenses to be adjusted, and thus EA/Tiburon could benefit its Sim players by not having the CPU controlled offense snapping the ball so fast, all the time.

I could see streamlining the current pre-snap system, though I have no solid ideas at this moment, I know there has to be ways to make adjustments in a mass movement system, like being able to adjust all LB's at once, so once the LB group are selected, a simple analog movement such as left or right could change the LB's from an over look to an under look, etc.

I would like the ability to set LB's, for example, closer or farther from the LOS, in anticipation of a run, or maybe a quick slant route.

If I am playing under technique with my corners, I want to be able to tell my safeties to stay over top..Or if I want my corners to play inside coverage, I may want my safeties to cover outside in case the WR route goes outside and beats the corner, for example.

Again, this involves either having more time pre-snap, or post snap adjustments, or both. Communication is much faster IRL, and MAdden needs to catch up, but still the question is how, and can it be implemented efficiently and effectively for the user.

[aholbert32]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

High and low bad snaps happen quite often in the nfl. It disrupts timing on plays and should be part of simulation mode.

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What is quite often? I'm talking about fumbled snaps.

High and low snaps are already in the game.

Again, I'm not saying it shouldnt be in the game. I'm saying that there are many other things that should come first and that the fact they arent in the game doesnt mean the game will never be "sim" simply because it isnt in the game.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I have seen high snaps in my franchise mode throughout the season that disrupts the the timing of handoffs and pass plays. I've seen a low snap a time or too as well. Same thing happens with punters from time to time. I'm assuming from your statement you didn't play 17 or didn't get very far in franchise mode, perhaps?

I could be wrong, but are the high and low snaps dynamic? From what I noticed they seem to only be tied to certain plays....

[SyncereBlackout]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I could be wrong, but are the high and low snaps dynamic? From what I noticed they seem to only be tied to certain plays....

I still have not seen one. Would be nice to see the frequency of them tied to an OL trait

[SageInfinite]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I still have not seen one. Would be nice to see the frequency of them tied to an OL trait

Run a draw play from the shotgun, or a playaction draw play from the shotgun. Almost guaranteed......

[LBzrule]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

As someone who believes in Sim gameplay and who plays in an online CFM with other people, I do NOT want any more stuff that is outside of the user's control. Say what you will, but the game is already aggravating enough and then to have some more mess that has nothing to do with the user?

You already have ratings that don't make sense like 91 pass block OL getting thrown to the floor in 2 seconds by an 86 finesse move 72 power move DE all freaking game. Now you want to throw in botched snaps. No thanks.

Now, I will say this. If they add a snap rating and someone is moving a Tackle to Center for example, and that tackle has a terrible snap rating then ok. And if you cut your long snapper and the guy that you have taking his place has a poor snap rating then ok. But outside of that no thanks. This would be the only way I could accept it because then it's on the user and it makes sense within rating categories. But mere scripting bad snaps

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Is it the same for simmed games? Not super sim but the games on the schedule you can't play. What I mean is if I play on 6 minute quarters will the simmed stats for ALL other teams in the league reflect this or will they be simmed based on 15 minute quarters. The proble for me is I don't have time for 15 minute quarters but still want the stats in my cfm to be balanced.

Supersim is the only sim engine. The old franchise sim (StatGen) engine was last used in Madden 12, it doesn't exist anymore. What you use when you simulate in-game is the exact same engine that simulates on the front end.

The Supersim in franchise mode and in play now may be different as they pull from different tune files, but usually you just copy the XML from franchise mode over the play now version. If someone forgets to do this, they can be different, but in-game and front end within franchise should be identical.

The way it uses playbook data can vary, I think. I'm not entirely sure, but I noticed discrepancies when I was tuning it between in-game and front end play calling.

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I could be wrong, but are the high and low snaps dynamic? From what I noticed they seem to only be tied to certain plays....

They just happen at random in shotgun formations. I can't say whether or not ratings play into it, I never asked. It's kinda like receivers slipping in rain, it just happens now and then.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I could be wrong, but are the high and low snaps dynamic? From what I noticed they seem to only be tied to certain plays....

I don't think they are. I think they were implemented as part of the handoff animations they redid because, like you mentioned, I want to say I've only seen them on inside draw plays and don't remember ever seeing one on a pass play but I could be wrong and just never noticed.

[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

And to add to your list Qb's are WAY too accurate on deep passes, 99% of the time they are perfectly thrown, the receivers don't even have to adjust.

This is because accuracy is measured against a target on the field, not on launch point. If you think of a gunshot, the line drawn directly from the barrel into infinity, you might be off center by an inch at 20 yards but that inaccuracy is compounded the longer range you measure it at. Madden says, the throw is off by, whatever, 2.5 yards, and it'll be off by 2.5 yards no matter how far it's being thrown.

What the game should do is determine how accuracy the launch point is and calculate the landing point from there. Then passes will have natural and realistic inaccuracies based on their range.

[michapop9]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

This is because accuracy is measured against a target on the field, not on launch point. If you think of a gunshot, the line drawn directly from the barrel into infinity, you might be off center by an inch at 20 yards but that inaccuracy is compounded the longer range you measure it at. Madden says, the throw is off by, whatever, 2.5 yards, and it'll be off by 2.5 yards no matter how far it's being thrown.

What the game should do is determine how accuracy the launch point is and calculate the landing point from there. Then passes will have natural and realistic inaccuracies based on their range.

I know theyve said "misses arent fun". Adembroski do you see misses becoming more prevelant through the simulation mode that they are incorporating into madden 18? Personally im tired of taking brett hundley and moving the ball just as effectively as if it were Aaron Rodgers.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I truly hope on simulation they get kicking back to OTB Madden 17

It was great.

They ruined it for offline players patching it for online players.


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[ggsimmonds]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

Out of curiosity.

In the scenario you suggested, would the animation cause the outside route be open? Would your press be less effective or completely ineffective (For hypothetical example, since you altered a 50/50 dice roll (basic press/ no press) with a 1/4 roll?*



*numbers are for illustrative purposes only.

The post you quoted was wrong in saying there is only a win/lose outcome. There is something of a neutral outcome, or it could be called a slight win for the defense because the WR is forced to alter their path, but they still get off the line pretty quickly.

The problem with outcomes is that win/lose animations are too frequent and too one sided. The normal DB win animation is the type of animation where a guy like Madden or Collinsworth in a broadcast would bring special attention to it and would comment "look how this DB is just manhandling the WR." On the flipside the WR win tends to make the DB look ridiculous. You watch it in game and you can almost hear Chris Berman yelling "whoomp!"

There needs to be many more press animations, and the majority of times it should only be modest outcomes.

By far the biggest flaw is poor AI. To put it bluntly the AI in Madden is inexcusable in 2017.
Story time on why I lost interest in last year's Madden quicker than I expected:

Spoiler

It was year 3 or 4 in my Ravens franchise. Divisional round playoff game against the Texans.

I cannot remember all the specifics, but I built Breshad Perriman into a solid WR, something like 84 ovr. He finished the regular season with 1200+yards and around 10 TDs. Everyone knows about his speed but his release rating was pretty damn good as well, about 86-88 if I recall.

In the game he was matched up with Jonathan Joseph. Right now his speed is poor, but it had regressed to low 80s in game. Houston, like 80% of teams in Madden, likes calling single high safety and bump and run coverage. Joseph's press rating was lower than Perriman's release. I can't remember specifics, but on all madden the coach stick gave a strong edge to Perriman.

Sometime in the first quarter I completed a bomb to Perriman for a ~64 yard TD. It would not be the first. Then very late in the 4th quarter of the game, with the outcome still in question, Houston came out in cover 1 press. No blitz, just a 4 man rush. TD to Perriman.

At no point did the Houston AI think "gee this isn't working, better change it up." That is inexcusable and I cannot accept the term simulation football being used to describe a game where this is a common experience.

Ideally we would have adaptive AI to remedy this situation, but I think we are a long way off from Madden having that. At the very least they need to address defensive gameplans because aside from adding plays here and there, that entire feature hasn't been touched since it was introduced. There are basically only 3 gameplans in the game: Rex Ryan's man blitzes, Dick LeBeau's zone blitz scheme, and a cover 3 heavy generic scheme. Seriously guys, boot up Madden and scroll through the different teams. And the AI doesn't give a damn about personnel or who they are playing, if the gameplan says they call cover 1 press 20% of the time, that is what they are going to do, matchups be damned.

Something needs to be done.

Edit: Other factor in this problem relates to pockets and accuracy. In real life most QBs need a clean pocket to complete the deep ball, in Madden you are either a second away from getting sacked or have a clean pocket. So it is not so much that the passes are too accurate, but that the situation is unrealistically conductive for deep passes.

Edit2: Beginning of this play perfectly shows the gameplay issues with press: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pkPZoNaDsk

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

The post you quoted was wrong in saying there is only a win/lose outcome. There is something of a neutral outcome, or it could be called a slight win for the defense because the WR is forced to alter their path, but they still get off the line pretty quickly.

The problem with outcomes is that win/lose animations are too frequent and too one sided. The normal DB win animation is the type of animation where a guy like Madden or Collinsworth in a broadcast would bring special attention to it and would comment "look how this DB is just manhandling the WR." On the flipside the WR win tends to make the DB look ridiculous. You watch it in game and you can almost hear Chris Berman yelling "whoomp!"

There needs to be many more press animations, and the majority of times it should only be modest outcomes.

By far the biggest flaw is poor AI. To put it bluntly the AI in Madden is inexcusable in 2017.
Story time on why I lost interest in last year's Madden quicker than I expected:

Spoiler

It was year 3 or 4 in my Ravens franchise. Divisional round playoff game against the Texans.

I cannot remember all the specifics, but I built Breshad Perriman into a solid WR, something like 84 ovr. He finished the regular season with 1200+yards and around 10 TDs. Everyone knows about his speed but his release rating was pretty damn good as well, about 86-88 if I recall.

In the game he was matched up with Jonathan Joseph. Right now his speed is poor, but it had regressed to low 80s in game. Houston, like 80% of teams in Madden, likes calling single high safety and bump and run coverage. Joseph's press rating was lower than Perriman's release. I can't remember specifics, but on all madden the coach stick gave a strong edge to Perriman.

Sometime in the first quarter I completed a bomb to Perriman for a ~64 yard TD. It would not be the first. Then very late in the 4th quarter of the game, with the outcome still in question, Houston came out in cover 1 press. No blitz, just a 4 man rush. TD to Perriman.

At no point did the Houston AI think "gee this isn't working, better change it up." That is inexcusable and I cannot accept the term simulation football being used to describe a game where this is a common experience.

Ideally we would have adaptive AI to remedy this situation, but I think we are a long way off from Madden having that. At the very least they need to address defensive gameplans because aside from adding plays here and there, that entire feature hasn't been touched since it was introduced. There are basically only 3 gameplans in the game: Rex Ryan's man blitzes, Dick LeBeau's zone blitz scheme, and a cover 3 heavy generic scheme. Seriously guys, boot up Madden and scroll through the different teams. And the AI doesn't give a damn about personnel or who they are playing, if the gameplan says they call cover 1 press 20% of the time, that is what they are going to do, matchups be damned.

Something needs to be done.

Edit: Other factor in this problem relates to pockets and accuracy. In real life most QBs need a clean pocket to complete the deep ball, in Madden you are either a second away from getting sacked or have a clean pocket. So it is not so much that the passes are too accurate, but that the situation is unrealistically conductive for deep passes.

Edit2: Beginning of this play perfectly shows the gameplay issues with press: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pkPZoNaDsk

Ok take this for what it is..based solely on what I was taught in D3 football at this position..not high level so not claiming to be anything more then that

The Corner jams on slot receiver allows free release to the inside..this is a no no on a high school level..the boundary is ur friend in this position..what I was always taught was jam to nearest boundary (if u lose give them the boundary) and take the inside leverage.

Now players make mistakes but this goes back to what others have said, this game needs more "animations" of losing, winning, or somewhere in between.

there also needs to be different types of jams as stated before, basics being: one handed jams/or jab to inside/outside, there is full jams used mostly in Cover 2, then press and bail made famous by Seattle in Cover 3..this can also be used when u have smaller faster corners on larger Receivers to disrupt short routes.

the other issue I have noticed is people/gamers except and the game depicts a "good jam" as the WR is just "stuck" at the LOS..when in reality (again what I was taught) is a good jam is disrupting the timing of the route without losing position

One last thing..there also needs to be more jams (which can cause a penalty) there is only one animation, the corner jams..and rides the receiver whiling holding the inside shoulder..the game needs more..in everyday "DB life" there is SO much holding and needs to be in the game


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[adembroski]

Re: Some Madden NFL 18 Game Style Details Revealed - Arcade, Simulation, Competitive

I know theyve said "misses arent fun". Adembroski do you see misses becoming more prevelant through the simulation mode that they are incorporating into madden 18? Personally im tired of taking brett hundley and moving the ball just as effectively as if it were Aaron Rodgers.

I wish I knew. My guess is yes, they'll improve on this, but that's all it is; a guess.