MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

[JJRuelz]

This game design flaw has to do with Archetypes in 2k, and it's a big one.

The Idea.
Grinding archetypes all together HAVE GOT TO GO. Not only will this be beneficial for the fans of the game in all of the communities, die hard or new. But it will also be a massive step in the right direction for helping 2k please the players.
Instead of having a system where you grind through characters to play with them online there should be a system where, before you start a game of MyPark or ProAM you select an archetype that you want to use, fully upgraded. Similar to games like Overwatch or Team Fortress 2.



Just imagine this archetype screen:

Except instead of showing the amount of upgrades it shows pros and cons of the archetype for new players. Like, Good at shooting, Easy for beginners, ect. And there's a list of key attributes for the archetype.

Why wouldn't this get implemented?
One of the glaring questions a person might have is "Why would 2k do this, they'd loose a lot of money" because people buying VC to upgrade their archetypes are a big part of 2k's monetization of the game. 2k would have to implement a new way of monetization, and the way I propose is a MUCH more enjoyable way for the consumer and is more reliable in the long term. 2k should charge the use for cosmetics and player animations for players on park and ProAM.
As I used as an example earlier, TF2 uses a buisness model similar to this. They charge people money for cosmetics and weapons. The key part is the fact that the things the user paying for doesn't directly make the player better at the game. Just make people pay for park animations (such as dribble moves, dunks, and jumpshots) instead of making them pay/grind for their characters.


And just a reminder, it's pretty well known that MyPark player care about their appearance. Even though it's not a barbie dress up game.



This clip is about F2P games, BUT I still think the advice stands.
<iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/dhzbf/wwdegp" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Who this will benefit, and why.

The Die Hard MyPark/ProAM Player:
This will help out mypark and pro am player because a lot of these player complain about the archetype system and how their limited because they have to spend lots of money and time to create these players. If they could change archetypes between games, or even have a system implemented where you could change archetypes during timeouts, as a substitution type deal, archetype complaints I feel would be a lot less.

New Players:
There are probrably a lot of players you could attract to this game who are Overwatch or TF2 players who like just team games with classes. It would be much more appealing to new players who just want to play online because as it stands now, not only are you severely handicapped for not being an experienced player, but you're also handicapped for not having an upgraded player. And some people don't even realize that. I sure didn't in 2k16.

MyCareer Players:
Most MyCareer player want less handicaps for their players. Separating the MyCareer grind from Park and Pro AM will pretty much end the unhappiness from MC players.

2K:
I already stated how new players could come from doing this, but 2k could also patch the archetypes directly that are overpowered, instead of changing the game to prevent the archetypes from being overpowered. You could straight up change the rating for the archetypes if you get a "demi-god" archetype you didn't account for.

[adamspag]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I agree. Park, Pro Am players don't want to grind mycareer for badges and mycareer players don't want restrictions as a result of park balance. Good post. Maybe they could even start archetypes at a 70 overall and you unlock upgrades from winning park games if revenue is an issue with this. Doubt we would see a change like this for a long time though.

[JJRuelz]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I agree. Park, Pro Am players don't want to grind mycareer for badges and mycareer players don't want restrictions as a result of park balance. Good post. Maybe they could even start archetypes at a 70 overall and you unlock upgrades from winning park games if revenue is an issue with this. Doubt we would see a change like this for a long time though.

I ran something like this to one of my friends and he said that the problem is people who have played for longer get the advantage. Which is true, but that's kind of already the case so that's why I want the grind gone all together personally.

[Dyslexicphish]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I agree. If 2k wants to be considered a legitimate e-sport they have to adopt this because it's what the major legitimate e-sports use. Their current model is built too much around monetization but they make so much money off of it that it won't change. They are doubling down on it because 2k17, in my opinion, was much more blatant in trying to get you to buy VC compared to previous years. Constant ads in menus and in games were overbearing at times. Even when you add attributes to your myplayer with VC you earned it felt like they were easing you into the idea of buying VC with the use of a cart to "checkout".

I really wish they would adopt this idea or even use team-up over what they have now for pro-am and their e-sports league they have planned.

[ph33]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I know quite a few people who would get the game again if they took away the grind and money hauling.

I was raised on 2k online leagues in the mid-late 2000s. That mode as we knew it, has unfortunately become a thing of the past. Then MyCareer emerged. A few of us kept buying because we had no other option. Most others saw the writing on the wall and said "I'm not spending another 50 bucks/50 hours grinding just to play online"

[killaxxbearsxxx]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I feel like this idea turns online myplayer modes into generic all-star team up and that would die so quick for me, I'd be done with the game in february. Yeah it sucks that mycareer is really grindy but I think the better adjustment to make is to make it less grindy, not remove the possibility of creative expression.

I think part of the problem is that mycareer is so bad that it's almost relegated to being a gateway to pro-am. The AI is really boring to play with because you're disconnected from them, so there's no way of knowing what they're trying to do and you can't really play with them. The AI is really slow through their actions and they don't have too many counters/wrinkles as a team or individually, so it gets stale playing against them. They (2k) also seem to be so obsessed with telling a story that they don't realize we create these players to create our own story and would prefer a branchable story with a LOT of possibilities. The mycareer is so bad that the narrative is "man I have to play this mode before i go to pro-am and park" instead of "I get to take my guy that I've created and play against other people that have done the same".

If the proposed design was implemented, yeah the game would be more balanced (assuming they could actually tweak the archetypes on the fly) and yes you could start right away, but then what? What makes you keep playing the mode late into the release? Or better yet what keeps you from getting bored with the players they've created for you? What keeps them from release other players for DLC and putting them behind a paywall?

If you implement generic pre-made archetypes, I don't think you should stop there and make those the only playable characters. I think they should be available almost like the default loadouts in call of duty, so that if you want to play right away with a new player friendly myplayer you can (that would also deter people from playing with 55 ovr players in pro-am, handicapping your team). I think they should separate competitive modes and provide the builds for those players for the sake of balance. But for the players like me who don't mind building their player through mycareer first before taking them to pro-am to play with players that can think more freely than AI, let us continue to do that.

[isdatyt]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

I'm for the separation of modes, but I still think there should be a grind aspect. I think they should take a more COD-like approach. I think it was introduced in BO2, but the separation of progression between standard multiplayer and zombies made so much sense. There needs to be a grind. Going from musty brown t-shirt to shirtless legend is the fun part, but it needs to not be affected by MyCareer.

[ph33]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

If the proposed design was implemented, yeah the game would be more balanced (assuming they could actually tweak the archetypes on the fly) and yes you could start right away, but then what? What makes you keep playing the mode late into the release? Or better yet what keeps you from getting bored with the players they've created for you? What keeps them from release other players for DLC and putting them behind a paywall?

If you implement generic pre-made archetypes, I don't think you should stop there and make those the only playable characters. I think they should be available almost like the default loadouts in call of duty, so that if you want to play right away with a new player friendly myplayer you can (that would also deter people from playing with 55 ovr players in pro-am, handicapping your team). I think they should separate competitive modes and provide the builds for those players for the sake of balance. But for the players like me who don't mind building their player through mycareer first before taking them to pro-am to play with players that can think more freely than AI, let us continue to do that.

Agreed that the generic archetype MOBA-style for 2k isn't the best idea. Basketball has too many unique play-styles to try to cram it into one archetype. That's a direction EA's NHL took with NHL 16, but I think they were more cornered into that because next-gen NHL 15 was one of the big disasters in sports game history and they had to win the community back.

Your point about implementing a more "default load-out" kind of player that is decent enough, is a brilliant idea. It's just not fun for people who DID level up and get stuck in a walk on situation with someone who just isn't on par with anybody else in the game.

As much as I have bitched about grinding, I do think there has to be some element of that in the game. But not in a way where people who just got the game are SO far behind that they're turned away from it. But it's way too excessive when done offline, and you already laid all out all the reasons why.

I don't think it's realistic to expect them to change their model drastically and have no VC/Grinding. With that said, I think this is how they can meet the consumer in the middle:

1. Don't charge us for basic animations like dribbling and shooting. I don't remember when this was implemented (2k16?), but this was when I started really souring on 2k and feeling the greed on their end. We don't make enough VC from playing games for them to be charging hundreds just to test out a new crossover or jump shot. I'm totally fine if they want to charge us for cosmetics, they already do and should---but something animation related? And to have to keep paying for it when we use a different character? Ehhhhhh.

2. I *hate* grinding for badges, the idea of badge grinding is silly to me. In my opinion, it should be "If you've played X amount of games, or reached a certain XP/level, you get more skill points to spend on badges" like they do in FIFA. This would also limit the number of badges people get so that archetypes are more unique. No more paint protectors hitting corner 3s without leveling up 3 point rating just because they have catch and shoot and corner specialist.

3. Do we really have to enter and exit every practice? And do drills that literally have nothing to do with the game itself? Let's do the approximate math here:

A) Enter practice (50 seconds)
B) Wait around for someone to ask you to do something (20 seconds)
C) Go to weight room and do two Vertical Jump drills (55 seconds)
D) Exit practice and return to menu (1 minute)

That was all doing it as quickly as possible, and I didn't include those hand-eye drills or doing each drill once to get stamina/hustle up. All of that took about 3 minutes. We can earn 25 extra attribute points, but it takes 8 practices to get one point. So it takes 25 minutes of mindless junk to get one point and this is if you do nothing but enter and exit practices. Multiply that by 25, and you end up spending 10 1/2 hours of your life just doing these practices. THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!! I think a few years ago they just gave you an extra point after playing a certain amount of games (That was still a mystery, but about 7-8 games) that system was better. "Doin' work" should never involve spending most of your time in a loading screen.

And my last point, I'm not alone and I've said this a lot, but I'm very strong about this:

4. Give us a damn badge counter. Or tell us how. Stop leaving it to the community to figure it out. This shouldn't be our thing. I appreciate that they told you mid-game last year if you earned a badge, so it at least saved you some effort from doing it all the way to the end because you're not sure. That's progress. Let's keep progressing.


Anyways, a lot of what I said above is kind of pointless because 2k18 is pretty much made. But I think a lot of us feel strongly about the way things are now that it's worth repeating for the future.

[Chemthethriller]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

No thank you. I really hate the idea of generic everyone has everything type deals.


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[BQ32]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

Some really great ideas on here. I think the one thing we all certainly agree on is that the relentless grinding and absolutely abysmal doin work method is either just a poor development choice or is simply another ploy implemented by a company that has become overly greedy resulting from its great success. For online competitive gamers that are forced into this so they can compete online it makes just about all of them miserable while tying it to online restrictions frustrates the people that actually enjoy the my career mode. However 2k17, even though infuriating many of it's fans also was the highest selling 2k ever. Tying the modes together allows them to tote how My Career is the most played mode in any basketball game and justify things like starting a top 10 draft choice as a 55 overall rated player. I wish they would separate the modes, but they just never will until the bottom lines starts to be effected.


In light of this maybe we could plead for them to allow for us to get access to all of the same upgrades and badges playing online as off, to give us a full stat breakdown of architype maxes before we have to commit with our hard earned money, and let us keep the number of upgrades we have earned and allow them to be applied to other architypes since patches can completely change the way ratings are implemented and effect gameplay. They could allow us to do that, but is simply comes down to how greedy they feel they need to be.

[quehouston]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

Ehh, I dont know about this. There's a bit of a grind in all games now a days, the longer you play, the more you get access to. Thats been a staple in gaming for a long time. I just dont see how having a maxed archetype of your choice before every game makes sense.

Everyone would essentially be fully maxed and we would see the exact same type of players pretty much every game, more so than we already do know. The system we have now at least gives us a little bit of freedom to personalize your playstyle

I'm not a fan of the blind grind we have now, but I'd rather just have a badge counter than them just giving us maxed archetypes from the beginning.

[MoodMuzik]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

Again, the question to me is, if you take away pay-to-play, how does the dad with 2 kids and a full time job suppose to grind in order to have fun with his friends on the few hours he has in his week to play with his friends?

Pay to play is a pretty good answer. Dad shells out a few more bucks so he can upgrade his player to be effective on the court without having to grind through 3 seasons.

The answer can't be "if he doesn't have time then don't play". Because it's a game, and it's meant for fun.

[JJRuelz]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

No thank you. I really hate the idea of generic everyone has everything type deals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How is this way more generic than what we have now?

[JJRuelz]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

Again, the question to me is, if you take away pay-to-play, how does the dad with 2 kids and a full time job suppose to grind in order to have fun with his friends on the few hours he has in his week to play with his friends?

Pay to play is a pretty good answer. Dad shells out a few more bucks so he can upgrade his player to be effective on the court without having to grind through 3 seasons.

The answer can't be "if he doesn't have time then don't play". Because it's a game, and it's meant for fun.

I'm saying instead of paying, you can all the fully upgraded archetypes for free. Whenever you want.

[MoodMuzik]

Re: MAJOR game design flaw in 2k that will help 2k and the fans

Yeah that I definitely can't get behind.

I think it should be outlined, like pro's and con's like you said, but I feel like that's already there with where your caps are.