QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

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  • RyanMoody21
    Pro
    • Jun 2009
    • 690

    #1

    QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

    So based on some feedback and reading what you guys wrote, I wanted to do an experiment.

    I think we can all agree a huge hurtle for Madden in the past has been unique player replication. Without this all the games can tend to run together and seasons start to feel boring, repetitive and stale.

    I figured the best example to start with would be a QB, since they are fairly distinctive and don't rely on play-calling or other players.

    To stay impartial I went with a CPU vs CPU game, sliders all default. I choose the Browns defense for its less than spectacular pass rush, I also set the weather to "Windy" hoping this might deter passing.

    I went for a full half and it became relatively apparent on a few drives, somethings not right. Cam had two glaring opportunities to rush on the first drive, one play in particular was a 3rd and 17. The line held up and perhaps 35 yards can be seen before a defender would have been close.

    Aside from that, clock management and play calling shows the legacy issues from the past and being honest, are just not acceptable from a simulation perspective.

    The Panthers get the ball back with 1:55 left in the half in a scoreless game, they have all 3 time outs. The first play is a pass, for 9 yards. Post play, zero urgency from the offense has the second play of the drive snap with 1:12.

    At this point, every play has been a pass attempt, you could make the case to run to pick up the yard or even a knee and concede the half would be acceptable.

    With 1:09 another pass is completed before the 1:01 left in the game CPU Timeout is called, you know the timeout the CPU always calls at 1:01. So with roughly 58 seconds used, the team has moved about 25 yards.

    After the time out, Cam is presented a prime opportunity to run and actually gets out into open space. With the defenders back to him, he goes into a synchronized pass where the DB peels back allowing the WR who is about 5 yards away to be lead into a completion.

    Because of the peeled coverage, a huge gain occurs with Kelvin Benjamin, who despite having ample room to maneuver makes no attempt to get out of bounds. He his tackled with 50 second remaining and a 2nd time out is used.

    Cam again resists the opportunity to scramble, standing in the pocket nearly 6 seconds before forcing a sideline pass.

    The pass is completed at the 18 yard line with 43 seconds remaining.

    Next Cam, despite having zero pressure and with pancaked defenders to his right, throws out to the flat, where Johnathan Stewart catches the ball. He makes no attempt to get out of bounds.

    At this point the half has 34 seconds left and the ball is at the 4 yardline. The Panthers still have a timeout.

    Post play, celebrations eat nearly 10 seconds off the clock. For some reason the offense has gotten scattered on the field, nearly 30 yards apart from each other. Cam goes into a "Hurry Up" animation while the commentary calls for a spike to stop the clock .

    With 8 seconds left, the ball is snapped and Cam throws an ill timed and positioned pass that bounces in the end-zone. No, not a high throw out of the reach where only his receiver could catch it, but rather the ball hit turf.

    With 5 seconds left, Gano comes on for 3. His kick takes 3 seconds, the Panthers walk off the field with a timeout in hand.

    Its clock management that even Andy Reid would scratch his head at.

    Its player management that would make Ryan Grigson blush.

    Its play calling that would get a Pop Warner coach fired.

    All combined it absolutely ruins the game play experience.

    That said, I'm sure we all have experienced it. However, if you have yet to eat today or want to watch something that may hurt your eyes more than the eclipse. I will leave the link - https://youtu.be/HIfYmhYUKFE
    Last edited by RyanMoody21; 08-21-2017, 02:09 PM. Reason: Clarity.
  • young22
    Banned
    • Feb 2017
    • 2083

    #2
    Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

    Play NCAA 14. That game has flaws for sure. As per any EA football game, you have to lower QBA a ton before they don't go 23/25 every game. But the QB AI is good. They will scramble. They will take shots deep.

    I don't understand why QB AI is so awful on this generation of consoles.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Operation Sports mobile app

    Comment

    • zizoux
      Rookie
      • Mar 2007
      • 464

      #3
      Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

      With Brady on the cover this year, I had high hopes that every qb would play,behave to their strenghts but...

      Comment

      • extremeskins04
        That's top class!
        • Aug 2010
        • 3864

        #4
        Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

        Ryan what version of the game are you playing? EA Access? Full reviewer copy?

        Comment

        • zizoux
          Rookie
          • Mar 2007
          • 464

          #5
          Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

          Originally posted by extremeskins04
          Ryan what version of the game are you playing? EA Access? Full reviewer copy?
          I'm watching his video, he's playing on PS4.

          Comment

          • extremeskins04
            That's top class!
            • Aug 2010
            • 3864

            #6
            Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

            Originally posted by zizoux
            I'm watching his video, he's playing on PS4.
            Not what I asked bud.

            Comment

            • RyanMoody21
              Pro
              • Jun 2009
              • 690

              #7
              Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

              Full copy, PS4 just to confirm.

              Comment

              • extremeskins04
                That's top class!
                • Aug 2010
                • 3864

                #8
                Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                Originally posted by RyanMoody21
                Full copy, PS4 just to confirm.
                Ok cool I figured you had full but wasn't 100% sure because I had been watching Mills live stream and he hasn't had too many issues with his. Thanks. Just wanted to confirm.

                Comment

                • canes21
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 22903

                  #9
                  Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                  The new spin moves are just nothing like what I see in real life. The very first play of the game is not a move you'd ever see anyone make at any point in time. It's a cool highlight looking move, but I don't play Madden to make highlight plays over and over, I play it to replicate what I see on Sundays. Unfortunately the game seems to be made for those wanting each drive to be the SC Top 10 plays of the week.

                  To turn this more on topic, I think that their lack of focus on improvements in the AI for the offline player is a direct result of them trying to cater to the H2H crowd that wants to throw for 400 yards and win 41-38 in 4 minute quarter games. I've come to just accept that EA will never make a football game catered to me anytime soon.

                  I've seen where devs before said Franchise wasn't played enough to warrant them working on it more, I don't know if that was true then or still true today, but if it is, it is one of those classic examples where it's in bad shape now that keeps people from wanting to play it, so EA doesn't see anyone playing it so they don't improve it. It's a terrible cycle to be caught in. The problem may be deeper than that, simpler than that, I simply don't know. All I know is that regardless of what Rex or anyone says about the game, watching the gameplay and seeing what's added each year, I am not their target audience. It sucks they are the only NFL game on the market, but it is what it is. At least with other genres I am able to find a type of game and look through the different games in it competing with one another and find the one that caters towards what I want the most. I can't do that with my sports games.
                  Last edited by canes21; 08-21-2017, 03:41 PM.
                  “No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”


                  ― Plato

                  Comment

                  • Rebel10
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 1162

                    #10
                    Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                    Agreed on clock management.
                    A lingering problem I have is that the CPU has no ability to play a fast-paced, normal offense, which is super common in the NFL today. The Patriots play an up-tempo fast paced offense for almost 2 quarters of every game, because Belichick calculates how many drives they have left in that half or game and plays accordingly. Most coaches do this, although Belichick is notorious for it and the Patriots offense has been able to run the hurry up so well for ~15 years. For instance, in 2015, almost 15% of the Patriots' snaps were in the no huddle, but other teams run it much more, with Green Bay using the no huddle 49% of offensive snaps in 2015 (this stat seems too high, but who knows, it's according to the NFL), going back to the 1980s Bengals Ohio River Offense (btw this is a great article by Chris Wesseling).

                    Madden doesn't have a concept of a fast paced offense, just "no huddle," "normal," and "clock kill," with both play calls and clock management. The CPU will play "normal" for most of the game, save for the final 90-120 seconds or so, but before the 2 minute warning they have no interest in preserving time or managing the clock. It can be a tough thing to do correctly, heck, real coaches struggle with it, so an AI definitely will as well, but it would be nice if the CPU didn't get into the hurry up mode only with 2 minutes remaining.

                    NCAA used to have different styles of offense throughout the game and it really made each game feel unique. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but when you'd play a no-huddle team and when they actually went no-huddle on you for a drive, it made the game feel much more organic. This is something that you see in just about every NFL game, the offense will transition to no huddle for 4 or 5 plays when they get a mismatch. I'd love to see Madden implement this again as it'll bring some realism to the game, and also variety in your opponents.

                    Comment

                    • timhere1970
                      MVP
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 1810

                      #11
                      Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                      The AI is just lacking in every facet of this game. From qb decisions, to clock management to roster management. I am no expert in ai bUT it really seems to be ai from 15 years ago. They constantly try to band aid it to fix problems like making it so cpu teams can't draft the same position in consecutive picks instead of making the AI realize that position is no longer a priority. It just seems that way to me.

                      Comment

                      • aceoye
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2009
                        • 355

                        #12
                        Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                        Originally posted by extremeskins04
                        Not what I asked bud.
                        Semantics, but EA access does not exist on PS4

                        Comment

                        • ggsimmonds
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 11235

                          #13
                          Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                          Watched your video and I am going to express a unpopular opinion here, but I think you are way off the mark.

                          The big issue at the end was obviously a glitch or bug.

                          The other thing I did have an issue with was the final pass to the flat at around the 5 yard line, yes he should have made an attempt to get out of bounds.

                          Other than that? I didn't see anything alarming or problematic. I think the problem was with you in this case. You made up your mind that you wanted to see Cam scramble no matter what. I mean you took issue with the rollout then pass to Benjamin, but dude, that is good football.

                          On the subject of clock management, yes there is the glitch that cost them ~25 seconds, but lets set that aside. I've got no issue with clock management either. Take away the glitch and it was pretty damn good actually.

                          Now all that said, this game has big problems with the AI. Very big problems.

                          Comment

                          • D81SKINS
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2014
                            • 1671

                            #14
                            Re: QB Styles - Cam Newton Example

                            Did i miss something, is this on All-Madden or All-Peo?
                            The peel back by the DB, sounds like the All-Madden Clutch mode!
                            I just hope that's NOT how EA allows Qbs w/ Clutch trait to move the chains, late.
                            Who really knows?

                            I just KNOW on M25, QBs have a much better Tuck & Run ability. I just played vs Romo, My D comes in hot and starts getting a couple sacks early, Romo Traits changed (it showed on the screen), from balanced or whatever his default was, to (SP: paranoid T&R: Often).
                            On top of Romo coming in Cold,
                            It turned into a recipe for failure w/ Da Boyz!
                            I think we finished w/ 8 Sacks!
                            Mind you,
                            We might of had 8 sacks total going into week 6.
                            So, Romo just isn't athletic enough to escape the pocket but he did Attempt to Run when he didn't have anything,
                            Orakpo, Fletcher, D. Hall, and Kerrigan are Hot! Man, I miss this Defense!
                            Heck, if you can hold a dual threat QB(M Vick had 142! On me) under 50yds rushing, your doing pretty good.
                            Anyway, all this to say,
                            Bring back the Fluid Traits, Including Tuck&R!!

                            Comment

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